Amidst media speculation and subsequent hate rallies, thankfully Seminole County State Attorney’s office has finally released nearly 200 pages of actual evidence documentation, audio and photographs relating to the homicide of 17-year old Trayvon Martin.
Trayvon Martin, who lived in Miami Gardens, Florida, was visiting his father Tracy Martin who lived at The Retreat in Twin Lake Town Homes, a gated community of Sanford, Florida.
It was about 7:10 pm on the evening of February 26, 2012, as Trayvon was walking home from a nearby convenience store when he was spotted by a citizen, George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch captain who was driving home from a shopping trip.
Because of the recent burglaries, Zimmerman considered Trayvon’s presence suspicious and called into the 911 non-emergency number. This phone call is listed in audio discovery files.
Within minutes after this call, a shot rang out as residents of The Retreat Townhomes listened in fear. Some were already on the telephone with 911 dispatchers to report loud arguing and some to report hearing someone moaning for help in the courtyard.
Trayvon Martin was shot with a Kel-Tec 9 mm gun. George Zimmerman was brought into Sanford Police Department for questioning and several hours later released.
The Kel-Tec 9 mm PF-9 is one of the lightest, thinnest 9 mm guns on the market — a gun so small and light you can carry it in your pocket undetected.
The documents also show that in a March 13th request “capias request” recommended that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter. The document said that Trayvon Martin’s death was “ultimately avoidable” had George Zimmerman remained in his car after alerting police of a suspicious person.
Nonetheless, George Zimmerman was cleared of all wrong doing according to Seminole County and the Sanford Police Dept.
If not for a phone call from Florida Governor Rick Scott, Jacksonville State Attorney Angela Corey would never have been called in and George Zimmerman would be the same free man who walked out of the Sanford Police Dept in the early morning hours of February 27th.
On Wednesday, April 11, 2012, to a nation-wide television audience, Angela Corey announced the arrest of George Zimmerman to the charge of 2nd degree murder. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r-idmJTK3I George Zimmerman turned himself in. Incidentally, it was State Attorney Angela Corey who moved to try a 12-year-old boy as an adult in a first degree murder case.
~~~
On to the bond hearing; George Zimmerman attended his bond hearing on April 20th along with his attorney Mark O’Mara. After several witness testimonies, for and against Mr. Zimmerman, in a risky move, Mark O’Mara put George on the stand. Mr. Zimmerman wanted to address several questions raised by Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon’s mother.
Zimmerman had this to say…
Snipped from transcript
O’MARA: We want to make sure that (inaudible). State your name.
ZIMMERMAN: George Michael Zimmerman
O’MARA: You advised me that you wanted to make a short statement, is that correct?
ZIMMERMAN: Correct.
I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. And I did not know if he was armed or not.
O’MARA: Nothing further, your honor. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I’m sorry, sir, you’re not really addressing that to the court. You’re doing it here to the victim’s family, is that correct?
ZIMMERMAN: They are here in the court, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand. But I thought you were going to address your honor, Judge Lester, not — so that’s really addressed to the family and where the media happens to be, correct, Mr. Zimmerman?
ZIMMERMAN: No, to the mother and the father.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. And tell me, after you committed this crime and you spoke to the police, did you ever make that statement to the police, sir? That you were sorry for what you’ve done or their loss?
ZIMMERMAN: No sir.
Since Zimmerman’s arrest and subsequent release under a $150,000 bond, the Federal Justice Department is currently investigating Zimmerman for civil rights violations. The reason is unclear but some media legal analysts are speculating if in fact Zimmerman uttered a racial slur in the following transcript of the initial 911 call.
Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left…uh you go straight in, don’t turn and make a left. Shit he’s running.
Dispatcher: He’s running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he’s running towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance…fucking [unintelligible]Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah
Dispatcher: Ok, we don’t need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Ok
The analysis was unsuccessful “due to weak signal level and poor recording quality,” according to the report.
The documents also include at least 11 witnesses to the shooting but not all are eye witnesses. Scattered within these documents are parts of what the Seminole County prosecutors plans to use to prove George Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder.
According to Florida attorney Richard Hornsby, second degree murder in Florida occurs when a person commits either, murder with a depraved mind or accomplice to felony murder.
Mr. Hornsby explains, the primary distinction between Premeditated First Degree Murder and Second Degree Murder with a Depraved Mind is that First Degree Murder requires a specific and premeditated intent to kill. The penalty under Florida’s 10-20-Life law, a person who uses a Firearm to commit Second Degree Murder must be sentenced to a minimum-mandatory prison sentence of 25 years.
In the picture on the right is the back of George Zimmerman’s head. This is the picture that I believe will beg the question, ”Was George Zimmerman in fear of his life and did he shoot Trayvon Martin in self defense?” Most of the witness reports support that claim and “Is there more to this tragedy than we know?”
Or notably, as in the capias request, Trayvon Martin’s death was “ultimately avoidable” had George Zimmerman remained in his car after alerting police of a suspicious person?
~~~
Here are a few issues in the document release that I found interesting.
Page 5 of 183
Why did SPD take buccal swabs from GZ’s cheeks? I assume to add GZ’s DNA to LE data base and to identify blood stains. On this page, GZ’s key and flashlight are described.
Page 6 of 183
Why did Sanford Police Dept. take the first-aid kit into evidence?
Page 8 of 183
GZ’s shirt described as Grey colored “Layer 8 Performance” brand name long sleeved shirt, size large, collected from Zimmerman at the Sanford Police Department.
* GZ’s jeans, jacket, shoes and socks were also taken into evidence
Page 16 or 183
Perhaps explained the reason why SPD wasn’t able to contact relatives of TM sooner.
They said the cell phone found at the scene was either low on battery or wasn’t working properly because it was wet due to the weather conditions, wet and rain.
Documents show that on February 28th, the cell phone was also password protected which caused another investigative problem for Sanford investigators.
Page 17 or 183
March 5 – TM’s father was asked for the pin # for the cell phone. TM’s father stated he would contact his lawyer before releasing the information.
Initially I was angry with SPD for not contacting Trayvon Martin’s family sooner but now I know why.
~~~
Sources:
Includes autopsy report
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf
Discovery Photographs
http://www.wftv.com/gallery/news/local/evidence-photos-show-bloodied-zimmerman-gun-more/ggFb/#1538946
183 pages PDF file
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/05/17/document-dump-george-zimmerman-discovery-file/
Angela Corey announces the arrest of George Zimmerman
Zimmerman Capias PDF
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/120411_Zimmerman_Capias.pdf
Bond Hearing article “The Christian Science Monitor”
CNN transcript of bond hearing
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html
Atty. Richard Hornsby website
http://www.richardhornsby.com/crimes/homicide/second-degree-murder.html
TheJBMission~
Open for discussion in the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case.
It’s been a long time since I’ve been on this board, not since CA, but I had to respond.
Here’s another story that I have followed from beginning to this point. My two sons went to the same school that TM attended. I have serious questions re a lot of aspects of this case, and I think the comment that “this could have been avoided if GZ had stayed in his car” is somewhat odd. Meaning, well, of course, but ……. dah, that’s irrelevant in the sense that “if” cchanges everything in life. In any vehicular manslaughter case, “if” the driver was not doing this or that, the other would be alive. We all know that. So where does it take us? Does anyone remember the poem, and this is just one line, “if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.” If is a conditional word that changes everything, but doesn’t bring us any closer to the resolution here.
My question is: did TM have ample time, once he started running to reach his father’s girlfriend’s townhome, back door. I think the answer is yes. And if he had done that, and not doubled back to hide, then this whole thing would not have happened, either. There is that “if” again.
Is this a tragedy? Of course. Why did these two not communicate better when they actually came into contact w/ one another? “What are y ou doing here?” Why was the response not more like, “I am staying in Thome #### with my father’s fiance for the week.” Wouldn’t that have also gone a long way to diffusing this?
The fight videos that I have seen of TM in the fight club at Krop are disturbing. There is still more to this story that we don’t know, but the MSMedia has done a great job of ratcheting it up….. something they like to do, without having the facts. The audio of the 911 being edited to appear to have a racist undertone was almost glossed over when it was discovered. The media likes to pick winners and losers…………… and play the public. And then when there is no more juice to the story, they like to pack their bags and move onto the next story. They leave in their trail the lives of whomever they have destroyed.
Let us continue to examine the facts.
Hi blam,
I’m glad you did. I agree with you that communication would have helped and if ” IF ” was a SKIFT” and all of the other cliques but what we have here is somebody was shot in the heart for no apparent reason except for looking suspicious.
I don’t know about you, but I find that disturbing. I don’t think I want to live in a country where its okay for someone to do this. I don’t know if I like the idea of a Neighborhood Watch Guy knowing my every move or watching who is coming and going out of my house…but that’s just me.
Now that the media has spinned their tales and editted words to their liking, I think its time to get down to business. I think it’s time to ignore the backgrounds of either side Zim or Martin and think about what this case means to this country. The outcome could set precedent in other cases.
Its not about whats right or wrong for certain races, it’s about what’s RIGHT for our COUNTRY.
What’s not RIGHT is this racial and political divide that people seem to feed on.
Blam, the world is a scary place. Thanks for stopping by.
We have now seen the video to know that TM did purchase the skittles and tea at the convenience store, but I am still left w/ so many questions re this story. Where were the parents (father/fiance) that night? TM has been suspended 3xs in one school year and is left alone essentially in a development that has had 9 breakins in the past year. He is walking about w/ a cell phone and it does appear as if there had been no real consequences to make him aware that his prior school behavior needed some correcting. The first suspension in the school year should have been a n eye opener that TM was perhaps involved w/ some friends that were not positive influences.
The media made this a case about race when they first labeled Zimmerman as “white.” It is clearly obvious that he is not “white.” Then he became “white Hispanic.” His ethnicity has black in his ancestry and that changed the media’s narrative, which should never have been the narrative in the first place.
It is disturbing to see the fight videos on the You Tube channel. To have a witness describe that TM was on top of GZ, straddled and doing MMA style hitting, that is disturbing. As I said in my first post, I live close to MKrop High school and my two sons went there. The fight videos are alarming because they are taking place at school on the lunch hour. TM, given his age, should have been better able to communicate to an adult why he was there. What if GZ was an undercover police offer? That cuold have been also a possibility? It was raining and he had on his hoodie, presumably as a protection from the rain, but w/ that being said, he should have been walking toward his town home w/ purpose in his step. If he had been doing that (and there’s that word again, “if”), then this situation would not have happened the way it did.
One of my sons is an Eagle scout and was working int he local scout office one day and was in full BSA uniform walking to work. He was stopped by a police officer and questioned because they had break ins in the area. Yes, you read that right. In full BSA uniform. Was he belligerent? No. Now, granted the officer was also in uniform, but by the age that TM has attained, he needed to have better composure as to how to answer/respond to GZ’s question. That, too, would have ended this.
I don’t understand why he felt the need to do otherwise. He felt threatened? I don’t see that.
Also, there are conflicting stories on the part of the father who at one point said that TM knew no one there in Sanford, but then said he thought he was with his cousin at the movies? Well, for someone who was on suspension (10 day suspension at that)………… does it not seem odd that a young man had that much liberty to just up and go to themovies without getting permission from Dad. I don’t know…. there are too many unanswered questions here, and I think the media has once again hyped up the general public.
I know several people that have concealed weapons permits and have the legal right to carry a weapon.
I don’t care if the crime rate skyrockets. I don’t care if there’s a shooting on my block everyday as long as my right to walk the public streets of America isn’t stomped on. I’m free. I’m not in jail. I haven’t committed a crime. I can come and go as I please.
I don’t want to live in a country where 3 burglaries in a month puts an entire community on lock down.
Look your doors and keep your children and pets in the house and be sure to carry your identification at all times.
Even your friendly neighborhood law enforcement officers know they can’t do that so what gives some Yahoo a right to stop and chase anyone? Do you think this would happen in NYC or NOLA? I don’t think so because 80% of our economy depends on tourism. We don’t have “Stranger Danger” lol
Yes, my city might be loud and dirty and doesn’t have the best school system, but I’m free.
I’m fighting a situation right now due to a “miscommunication issue”. Somebody told a bank that I was dead in 1999. They detained my driver’s license for 2 hours without telling me WHY.
I think the law that applies to LE should also apply to any citizen. “Full Disclosure!”
You tell me who you are and I MIGHT tell you who I am. And it might be nice if you told me you were carrying a Kel-Tec 9 mm hand gun. lol That might persuade me.
I can’t believe that people don’t see the true meaning of this case. Wake up America!
Your basic rights are dwindling away everyday. New laws are enacted and unless you read the small print in the newspaper, chances are you won’t know.
Most of my friends work 40 hours a week, come home cook dinner, help kids with homework, and barely have time to watch 5 minutes of the nightly news.
What do they know? And THEY are the backbone of this country. Without them there would be no America but they’re the last ones to know what’s going on in the world until a case like this one.
I don’t have to care about this case. I don’t live in Florida. But I’m going to keep my eye on this one because it might effect me or my family one day.
You never know…
Blam
TM’s school suspension has absolutely nothing to do with this case. And btw, where did you read that Zim even spoke to TM? And IF he did, wouldn’t it have served a better purpose to let TM know he was the neighborhood watch guy IMMEDIATELY?
As I mentioned in my other comment. You know who a LEO is by his uniform. And OMG, Zim was an “UNTRAINED” citizen who knew nothing about HOW to approach a suspect. A LEO knows not to get within 15 feet of the “suspect”. That’s whay you get when you want to play cop.
He’s an insult to LE. And believe me, most cops think Zim is at fault and would like to see him pay the price.
As for Trayvon not having pep in his step?? That’s ludicrous!! You don’t HAVE to WALK a certain way in AMERICA!! OMG!!
And of course your son was respectful to a LEO in uniform. How do you KNOW TM would not have done the same thing. Since you want to call TM a thug, Even thugs don’t want to go to jail.
So that’s a moot point.
Oh and I’m sure Zim was getting his ass kicked. No doubt…I don’t even have to watch the video. And had some Yahoo got out of his vehicle to follow my 6’2″ son at 17 yo, he would have too. He would have kicked Zim’s ass up and down the block. The mindset is “get him before he gets me”.
Of course he wouldn’t do that if he knew the man was a Neighborhood watch guy.
Ask yourself this question: Why did Zim think it was safe to get out of his vehicle and follow this suspicious looking man? Do you think Zim would have left the safety of his vehicle if he didn’t have a gun?
I didn’t call TM a thug. That was a prior post………… I have seen plenty of neighborhood watch volunteers in mmy neighborhhod. I resist the way the media played this story from the beginning. It didn’t make sense to me from the beg, and it turns out may of my initial thoughts were correct. the media put forth pictures of TM from middle school and GZ at much more weight than he was on that night. The initial suspension , in my mind , does play a factor in this. It will not come into play in a court of law, but as a parent it is very disturbing to know that your son as 13 pieces of women’s jewelry in his bookbag. he was not charged w/ that, but was charged w/ something much less. Why? Bec he said it wasn’t his. that is very amazing. However, this was the beginning of a problem that any parent would want to address. If the parents were not aware, as the mother said, then the school system has a problem………… in withhold ing this information. It set the tone … that is why it is important.
I watch the media events daily and see how our rights are being affected daily, but I also see how the media has dramatically changed in the last 40 years. In this case they have done a disserve in their reporting of this story. Just put the facts out there. They did not do this from the beginning.
As I said I know for a fact several people who have CWPermits, but they don’t always tell me when they have a weapon on them.
I only have time to share one thought right now. We are in process of going back to the future. Think about the ramifications of that as a society that is meant to evolve, not regress. Now, what made me share this thought is the solar eclipse taking place today. It begins in the area of the devastation that resulted from nuclear energy getting hit by an earthquake/tsunami in Japan not too long ago, the date being May 21, 2012 there. It arcs across the Aleutian Islands, crosses the international date line then the major fault (read that multiple ways) lines near and in California, plates that allow mother earth to expand and contract, then ends on May 20, 2012 in Texas. The eclipse begins on the 21st and ends on the 20th local date and time. This case-trial begins sometime in the future and ends around 7pm, February 26, 2012 with one human being dead and many lives changed forever. What will we learn? What could we learn from the past or the future being repeated today and tomorrow in our own backyard? It’s interesting to look back to the last time this Saros Series occured, 1994…Michelangelo’s Universal Judgment was restored, genocide begins in Rwuanda, apartheid ends in S. Africa as Nelson Mendala becomes the first black president comes to mind but another kind of bias is affirmed by the pope too, only men can be ordained. Kurt Cobain of Nirvana was found dead too, a single self inflicted gun shot.
13 pieces of jewelry in a book bag? Where did you read that?
And yes, I agree. The media put this case in such a bad way, I don’t think it’ll ever recover but I’m pass that. If you noticed, I left out the Al Sharpton media blitz and the Obama comment for a reason in my article. Because we have to get pass it, to get to the case at hand.
I don’t believe Zim wanted to kill anyone that night. I believe he put himself in a situation where he felt he had no choice but the fact remains, he’s acting in the capacity of Neighborhood Watch Captain that clearly states he can not carry a gun. There’s emails and apartment brochures that tell me this is a fact. He was very active in his community trying to keep people safe, so his intentions were good but for one lapse of judgment.
Now how many young men sitting in prison today do you think had “one lapse of judgment”?
Thousands…so what makes Zim any different?
No I don’t think this is a 2nd degree murder case but I do think that the SAO is making fools of all the ones who called for Zim’s arrest. They know dang well that had Zim been charged with Manslaughter, they would only need 6 jurors out of 12 to convict Zim. And by looks of things in this case with so much contention and difference of opinion, almost 50/50, I’m almost sure Zimmerman will walk…unless just as in the Anthony case, majority didn’t mean a thing.
Thank you Zuben for weighing in. I do believe there’s truth in regressing to the past. The World is in a bad place right now. People are divided instead of coming together.
From the looks of the World today, I see us going back to the Wild Wild West. We’ll all be packing guns before you know it.
Blam,
That’s correct. You don’t have to tell me you’re carrying a gun but you also can’t enforce your presence on me if I choose not to talk to you. Even LE has to have probable cause before they can stop me.
Believe it or not your son didn’t have to talk to that nice policeman. He could have walked away.
Hello Blam great to see you!!! I hope you are doing well and all is great with you… so nice to see you
hello JB and Zub, happy day to you!!
Someone else said why didn’t Trayvon just run home? He couldn’t he was dead.
If you’ve ever had anyone follow you, you don’t want them to know where you live, you don’t know why they’re following you.
I’ve been in a car and knowing I was being followed. I passed my street, passed my house, if I was already almost home.
You, when you believe yoi are being followed are not aware who that is and why they;re following you. You don’t want to take that chance of them knowing where you live.
At one point, Zimmerman says I lost him. What made him think that he lost him? Why didn’t he consider the fact, Trayvon had gotten to his house.
Zimerman doesn’t give up, even though the police are on their way.
Trayvon asked a question that I would have asked Why are you following me, Zimmerman’s reply was what are you doing here?????
Is he supposed to tell a stranger that he is on his way home? I don’t know I would have told a stranger asking me that question.
Even if he had said my name is George immerman and I’m the neighborhood watchman.
Was Trayvon just supposedly supposed to accept him at his word. Zimmerman said he looks suspicious because he hadn’t seen him before. Well, same goes for Zimerman, Trayvon hadn’t seen him before.
They were both just strangers at this point and at this point what had Trayvon done that made him say these assholes always get away. AGAIN, the policee on their way.
I want to ask Zimmerman what he thought Trayvon was getting by with? Looking suspicious?
Loly,
I didn’t realize that there were words exchanged between Zim and Martin. I agree with you. Zim should have taken the opportunity to say he was the Neighborhood Watch Captain.
Funny thing that you mentioned Tray didn’t want Zim to know where he lived. Just last night I heard my son fussing at his girlfriend. You’ll never believe why!
It was because on her way home she noticed an old man in a green truck following her and instead of her going to a well lit area, she led him to her front door. I guess she wasn’t thinking.. no one is perfect.
I don’t know if men think that way though…especially a young guy. My older son would think about that but not that young one! He’s invinsible..lol But its good point.
It’s hard to say what either TM or Zim were thinking..but somebody died and somebody has to pay. IMO
Another thing ..when I think of a Neighborhood watch guy, I’m picturing some old dude who’s maybe a retired police officer not some 28yo with a shaved heard, wearing a red/orange leather jacket in Florida. Okay, I’m profiling too. lol JMO.
So maybe TM thought Zim was suspicious too.
======================= =====================
Hi Spidey!
Have a lovely day too! I’m off to finish making dinner. Just have to boil the macaroni.
BBL guys
Definitely not a 2nd degree murder case. And I read it repeatedly that in the first suspension TM was suspended for grafitti to the school lockers. He was seen on the school camera writing WTF on the locker. When the security guard, who knew him, asked to see his bookbag, looking for the marker, he found the 13 pieces of women’s jewelry. When asked, TM responded that they were not his, but were a friends. Now, he was charged w/ the grafitti and was suspended. (I have my own opinion of this though it will not pertain to the issue, but Krop was charged itself last year for allowing players out of district to play for their various sports teams, and here is TM not even being questioned severly over this………… I wondered if it was bec he was on the football team, but I digress on that point)…………..
anyway this showed me that there were home invasion burglaries going on, perhaps a gang initiation that either he was involved w/ or was holding the stuff for someone who was.
W/ that in mind, I know this will not come up in the trial,, but it does set the pattern for what was happening in this young man’s life since he left Carol CIty High last year. Did you read his twitter account?
Now, there is more going on here than even a 2nd degree murder charge? Like potential law suits?
And yes, there was communication, actual verbal exchange that night between GZ and TM.
It is a shame/tragedy that w/ that these two did not better handle a verbal exchange that could have eliminated such a terrible tragedy from happening.
/blam
I’m responding to whoever said, what did GZ think TM was suspicious of?
perhaps in a neighborhood of foreclosed homes, that had experienced 9 ormore break ins — perhaps GZ was thinking that TM was casing the homes for future breakins. I don’t know……
The 911 tape shows that he had started to run. Z is following. The 911 operator tells Z to stop/ we don’t need you to do that. GZ says ok. At that point, if you listen to the tape, you can hear GZ’s breathing slow down, not as it had been before when he was running. So he is headed, walking to a street to get the street name/# to give to the police and doubles back to his car. TM is not in his sight.
And when GZ passes the “t” of the sidewalk intersection, TM hits him. Now, if TM had been “running” ……… and had turned the sidewalk ……….. headed home. He, too, now has a choice. Either go home or if you want to say dont go home, he could have waited from his vantage point, and let GZ continue tback to the car. In that scenario, there would have not been an altercation.
The docs pointed out that Mr. Zimmerman had called the police about suspicious people on Aug. 3, Aug. 4, and Oct. 6 of 2011, and Feb. 4, 2012. That’s not very often as I first thought.
Blam, I’m trying really hard to stick to the facts that are documented. You said, TM had 9 pieces of jewelry in his bag when he was suspended for writing on a school wall. Early on, someone here mentioned, he had a screw driver and an empty baggy with traces of marijuana.
So now I’m confused. And what does it matter?
You see I’m trying to discuss this case without the reputation of the victim being an issue because it doesn’t matter to me if TM was a newly released serial killer. LOL
He was not breaking the law when he was shot. He may have attacked Zim but then I have to ask myself was Trayvon “Standing His Ground” since it was Zim who got out of his vehicle after following him while driving his car at 3 mph?
A woman may have thought that Zim was a potential rapist. Would that have made a difference if TM were a woman?
This is a really tough case, no doubt…but in my heart and based on my upbringing, I feel that Zim was not in danger of his life while he was in his car. Maybe he threw all caution aside because on the other calls, the suspicious guy got away and that’s why he was so intent on pursuing him?
BTW, if you find the document explaining TM’s school suspension, please post it. It will be one more thing that we can agree on.
Gotta love that.
JB,
Actually it was 13 pieces of women’s jewelry and yes your other poster was correct. There was also a large, flat head screw driver in the back pack. I repeat… I know this will not be brought up in trial, but this ia large, cause of concern for a parent. This was documented in several different places, including, if I’m not mistaken, in The Miami Herald. The mother was very upset when this info came to light.
I don’t think GZ was in fear of his life when he was in the car, nor do I think he was in fear of his life when he gotout of it, following TM. I do think however thathe was the one on the bottom of the altercation, and I also think that he was the one who was screaming for help. When he moved to inch away from the concrete and the gun was exposed, then it was a fight for the gun…… both, I’m sure, were now going for the gun. I also read that the initial reason that he purchased the gun was because of a loose pit bull in the area.
I know you are trying to stick to the facts, because that is the style tha tyou have always adhered to, which I most definitely appreciate. The jewelry in the back pack has been documented in several places. he was charged, per the school, with vandalism…… and was not sent to juvenile for it.
Blam,
Then where are you getting your facts?
I heard in the very beginning that he had an earring and a screw driver and a baggy that had contained marijuana.
You said that Trayvon said it wasn’t it jewelry. OK, where did you get that also?
You know guys wear earrings and jewelry?
They wear bracelets and necklaces too. So, where did all of this info come out?
Was he charged with stealing jewelry.
The back pack? Did he have it with him that night?
Why did they look in his back pack and what does it do with this case.
WTF????
You’ve seen that everywhere on the boards!!
As GasCanGeorge said about him not going to the ER, wouldn’t matter to the jury,
what does what you heard/read about Trayvon matter.
After a woman is murdered do they look in her purse and if so, what for?
He did not have it with him!
I asked why did he look suspicious? Your answer “perhaps he”
That also won’t go over in a courtroom.
Talk about facts???.
When you’re walking home in the rain you duck, yes I said duck, because anything you can find to duck under you will and you will also run OR you may not walk as normal as you would if it weren’t raining!
If you’re in a car and it’s raining, do you get out if you don’t have to?
I have read everything that I can find on this case, bec I knew the media was doing what it does best , stir things up. W/ that it was reported in the Herald, as well as other places that TM had 3 suspensions. The first was the one for the grafitti in October of 2011. It was on this one that the pieces of women’s jewelry was found, along w/ the large, flat head screw driver in his back pack/book bag. This will not come up in trial, but it plays a piece in what was happening ihn his life. The last suspension in Feb. 2012 was for baggies w/ marijuana residue and the marijuana pipe. As Miami Dade County has a zero tolerance policy, he was suspended for 10 days. This made his 3rd suspension for one year. This was reported in the Miami Herald, but was also reported in other places. Widely reported.
The jewelry will definitely not come up in the trial, but it certainly appears to be the starting point of problems. Yes, boys do wear ear rings and rings, but it is odd to have 13 dpieces of women’s jewelry along with a large, flat head screw driver.
I am saying that both people had responsibilties that night, and that includes TM. It is indeed a tragedy.
If we are talking about FACTS, then why all the SPECULATION about TM just minding his own business walking home? What are we basing that on? Witness statements? Because I have, for your convenience, placed a link to the entire document dump, which I have combed over thoroughly several times, and no where do I see a single witness who says that they witnessed TM just walking along minding his own business.
I think that herein lies the difference of opinion between myself and Blam (and a few others) and JB and Loly. The mantra of the innocent boy just walking home from buying some candy and tea who was profiled, stalked, confronted and shot by the “self appointed neighborhood watch captain” has played so long and hard in the news that people speak it as if it were FACT, when in reality, it is speculation at best.
It’s easy to see how you believe that someone needs to pay if you believe that TM was just innocently walking home minding his own business when Zimmerman decided to follow him. I’m not arguing with you for feeling that, under those circumstances, Zimmerman should be punished.
HOWEVER, for the sake of clarifying why I (and most likely Blam and the others) feel the way we do, let’s look at what we do know. At 19:11:12, Zimmerman (Zim for short cuz that’s too long to type over and over) calls the non-emergency police number because as he was leaving his house to go purchase groceries at Target, he noticed someone weaving in and out of the buildings and acting suspicious. To see what the neighborhood watch tells folks to do if they see anything suspicious, please refer to page 155 of the document dump. He did what he was expected to do as a member of the neighborhood watch. Now, we can debate how neighborhood watch programs stifle our freedoms, how they are unfair, how they don’t utilize the “live and let live” mantra all day long….but it won’t do any good because the fact of the matter is that MOST large cities have within them gated neighborhoods (and non-gated, for that matter) that utilize a neighborhood watch program to try to keep the incidents of crime down. Whether or not we agree with them is irrelevant. They exist and, in most cases, they work. Their job is to keep eyes and ears open and report suspicious activity. I don’t see what’s wrong with that. I can’t see why it has been so offensive to so many people…..and folks can argue til their lips fall off that they aren’t offended by the EXISTENCE of a neighborhood watch, but the reality is, the idea of curtailing crime in neighborhoods MUST be offensive to many people because people keep insisting that Zimmerman had NO REASON to be following this kid, either in his car or on foot.
But whatever. It is what it is, and neighborhood watches DO exist and the job of a neighborhood watchman is to report suspicious activity to the appropriate police number. With that said…that’s exactly what Zim did. He is probably wishing at this point that he had shut his eyes to drive through the neighborhood to reach the exit gate and proceed to Target….but you know what they say about hindsight. The fact that he was packing his concealed weapon is trumpeted like some anthem of the perpetually victimized. My answer to that is “So WHAT???” He was NOT patrolling the neighborhood. He had a license to carry…..as do thousands of others in this country. When would people suggest that folks with a concealed carry license conceal and carry????? Because I watch the news and I think that when I’m heading out shopping, it’s a good time to carry. People get mugged in parking lots of shopping centers…..at least in the tri-state area surrounding where I live. Now I fully realize that the Sanford and Orlando areas are probably really low crime areas, so carrying a gun for protection is a ridiculous idea, but bear with me. The vast majority of people who conceal and carry do so with the hope that they NEVER have to use that weapon…..but if they are attacked, they want to know they can defend themselves and perhaps save their own life. And guess what….the LAW says they can do that. The LAW realizes that criminals don’t get licenses to carry legally. They also realize that there are far more weapons that can be used to kill or seriously injure someone than guns. But I digress……the Constitution of the US guarantees the right to bear arms…..and the state law upholds that, so it is what it is. If you don’t like that Zim was packing heat…..then, you’re entitled to not like it. But he was NOT breaking any laws or doing anything wrong. Back to our story…..
So he heads out to target and on the way out of the neighborhood he sees this guy that he feels is acting suspiciously. Now….for all of you people with crystal balls who KNOW that TM was just strolling along in the rain minding his own business, I WISH you’d give your info directly to both the prosecution and the defense so that we could all have that settled once and for all. If your crystal ball doesn’t have “record” mode so that you have video footage of this innocent stroll, then I guess all of us without said device are just left to believe that Zim saw something that caught his attention and then proceeded to call the police to report it…..thus validating that darned call to the non-emergency police dispatcher to request an officer come and investigate.
Now….let us flash forward to that famous call to the non-emergency police line.
The call came in, according to documents, at approximately 19:12:18 and lasted 3 minutes and 5 seconds. At 1 minute 20 seconds into the call, Zim tells the dispatcher that TM is “coming towards me”. Zim was still in his car. He further tells the dispatcher that Martin has his hand in his waistband. The exchange goes like this (per transcript):
Zimmerman: Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he’s coming to check me out, he’s got something in his hands, I don’t know what his deal is.
Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything ok
Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?
Dispatcher: Yeah we’ve got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.
Ok. So, Zim’s a little nervous, IMO. I’m basing my opinion on the change in his voice at this point in the conversation, and his asking the dispatcher how long it will be before the officer arrives. Now, I guess I could look at that from another perspective and could conclude that Zim was thinking to himself, “I hope that cop takes a while to get here because I’d really like to mess with this guy.” Because that’s the first thing that would jump right into my head if I saw a stranger that, to me, looked as if he were on drugs (see beginning of call regarding suspicious activity), and who came to check me out and had his hand in his waistband. I would not use ANY logic whatsoever in my heated lust to take down this punk, particularly since NOW I think he might have a weapon since he’s reaching into his waistband and I think he has something in his hand. At this point…I’m ITCHING for a old fashioned gun fight….but nevertheless, the dispatcher has a soothing voice, so I’ll just hang out and chat with him for a while longer.
And do you notice that the dispatcher tells Zim TWICE to let him know if this guy does anything else? So NOW, Zim thinks there might be an armed guy in the neighborhood…..one that he doesn’t recognize…..one who was acting suspiciously (I wish you folks who KNEW he WASN’T doing anything AT ALL to make Zim suspicious would please offer proof to the parties involved. It would save everyone a lot of trouble). And the dispatcher is telling Zim to keep an eye on him.
So, we’re up to 2 minutes and 8 seconds into the call when Martin, if we can believe that conniving, trigger happy, police-calling, self-appointed neighborhood African-White-Peruvian Clint Eastwood, is running. From transcript: Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left…uh you go straight in, don’t turn, and make a left. Shit he’s running.
Dispatcher: He’s running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
And then we get to the whole part of the conversation that is so controversial.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he’s heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance…fucking [unintelligible]
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah
Dispatcher: Ok, we don’t need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Ok
Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name?
Zimmerman: George…He ran.
Dispatcher: Alright George what’s your last name?
Zimmerman: Zimmerman
Dispatcher: And George what’s the phone number you’re calling from?
Zimmerman: [xxx-xxx-xxxx] Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there? Zimmerman: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that’s my truck…[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
Zimmerman: I don’t know, it’s a cut through so I don’t know the address.
Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area? Zimmerman: Yeah, I…[unintelligible] Dispatcher: What’s your apartment number?
Zimmerman: It’s a home it’s 1950, oh crap I don’t want to give it all out, I don’t know where this kid is.
Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?
Zimmerman: Yeah that’s fine.
Dispatcher: Alright George, I’ll let them know to meet you around there okay?
Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?
Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that’s no problem.
Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it?
Dispatcher: Yeah I got it [xxx-xxx-xxxx]
Zimmerman: Yeah you got it.
Dispatcher: Okay no problem, I’ll let them know to call you when you’re in the area.
Zimmerman: Thanks.
Dispatcher: You’re welcome
The “he’s running” part comes at the 2 minute and 20 second mark in the call. The “are you following him” part of the conversation comes in at the 2 minute 25 second point in the call. Zim then says “OK”, and his breathing slows and the wind sounds die down. He continues the call, and the dispatcher says “what’s your apartment number?” and Zim says “It’s a home it’s 1950, oh crap, I don’t want to give it all out, I DON”T KNOW WHERE THIS KID IS.” He don’t know where he went. He lost sight of him. And he’s STILL on the phone with dispatch. The call lasted a total of 3 minutes and 5 seconds. Now, At the 2 min, 20 sec point, Martin is running. Zim is assuming that he’s supposed to watch and see where he went because the dispatcher has said twice, let me know if he does anything else. He (the dispatcher) is also trying to get address info to relay to the officer enroute. Zim doesn’t sound to me like he’s at a full sprint trying to run Martin down. He sounds to me like he’s trying to get a locale on him or see where he had gone. I might have done the same thing if I had been in his shoes. But hey….to each his or her own.
Everyone is a Monday morning quarterback playing the “woulda, shoulda, coulda” game. If Zim just hadn’t left his vehicle…..if they had just made nice conversation with each other…..IF. But it didn’t happen. And what DID happen is a tragedy. And I’m sure, as I said before, that if either of them could get a “re-do”, they’d BOTH opt for it. BUT from my point of view….Zim was doing what he was asked. He was NEVER ordered NOT to leave his vehicle. He was asked if he was following, he said yeah, they said don’t do that, he said OK.
Now….we have from the 2 min 20 second mark in the call until the end of the call where Martin has run and Zim has lost sight of him. I don’t know if you all have actually seen the map of the neighborhood, but I can tell you that if I were to have run at that point, I could have made it to Brandy Green’s apartment and have locked myself safely inside…..away from the Big, strapping, white, gun-toting, Neighborhood Watch Nazi…..and I’m not a 6 ft tall 17 year old who played football. However…..we all know Martin DIDN’T run home, despite his utter terror at being stalked and harassed by this gangster.
Instead, Zimmerman MUST have ended the call with police and then ran from the back gate right up to Brandy Green’s porch and snatched that kid right offa there and shot him. Oh wait…..that was Brandy Green’s version on the news interview. My bad.
Anyway….none of this really matters to people who insist that TM was just innocently walking home. If you know that to be a fact, then I can certainly understand why you feel so strongly about Zim deserving to be punished. However, for those of us who have NO reason to think, based on what has been released thus far, that Zimmerman just wanted to harass a kid who was walking along innocently doing NOTHING but minding his own business, it’s easy for us to see this as a clear case of self defense. Until I hear about an eye witness who saw the whole thing, I’m going to do what the law says and, when there is no proof to the contrary, give the accused the benefit of the doubt.
UNLESS I want to stretch my imagination and picture that it happened like this:
There is 80 seconds, less than a minute and a half between Zim hanging up the phone with dispatch (19:15:23) and the first 911 call from people who heard yelling (19:16:43). The yelling had already been going on for long enough to grab several people’s attention BEFORE they looked out their windows and decided to call 911, so Zim was having his head slammed for a while before anyone even called. NOW…go back to the call between Zimmerman and dispatch…..if Zim started heading back to his truck and tells the dispatcher to have the officer call him when he gets there so he can give him his location (because Zim isn’t sure how long it will take the cops to get there and remember, he’s heading back to his truck at this time), why in the name of God would he confront anyone or start an altercation with them?? I can picture it now. Zimmerman approaches Martin and says, “hey punk, you’re on my turf.” and Martin replies, “oh, I’m so sorry big, strong, nazi-looking white guy. Please don’t hit me. I’m just running as fast as my wittwe wegs will cawwy me back to my daddy’s house with these here skittles I bought for my wittwe brother Chad.” Then Zimmerman commences to beat on Martin using his face and nose as deadly weapons. HOWEVER, he does warn Martin that he might have to stop to answer the phone because a cop is supposed to be calling him any minute….and with the warning, he implores Martin NOT to go anywhere until he’s off the phone. Of course, we all know (because we’ve all read the discovery) that the officer arrived twenty seconds after the shot was fired. Fortunately during that 20 seconds, Zimmerman, who according to 2 witness statements, had time to tell one person to call his wife and tell her what happened, and another person to call the cops ALSO had the time and foresight (after getting his head bashed on concrete) to take those headphones outta Trayvon’s ears (cuz remember, Daiasha….err….I mean, DeeDee HEARD a gruff old man’s voice asking what Trayvon was doing there and then she heard the phone hit grass…..??!!) and stuff them right inside Trayvon’s pants pocket. THAT was some QUICK thinking on his part, wouldn’t you say…..especially given the shock and trauma of the events that had occurred.
Ok….this is long and I’m sorry. I promised myself not to come back and comment here and I’m breaking my own rule…..
Omar,
I’m basing TM walking home minding his own business from police reports and from Zim’s calls to 911. True, there are no witnesses that saw him walking besides Zim and I think if Zim saw TM doing something odd, why didn’t he tell the 911 dispatcher?
Zim said he looked “suspicious”, that was his words. Not mind or anyone else’s.
So I need to ask you, “if TM wasn’t just walking, what else could he have been doing? Are you saying he was running? IIRC, if you want to find the doc, TM started running after GZ & TM made eye contact.
So after they make eye contact, then TM runs. Whats so odd about that? Is that against the law?
Omar,
if you’ve read anywhere in the docs that says TM was breaking the law please post it.
Running, skipping, jumping is not against the law, right?
So if I’m to have a conversation with someone regarding this case, until I read something else from a LEO or an eye witness, I’m going to say TM was walking down the sidewalk on a public street minding his own business.
I’m sorry if it doesn’t seem factual to you but its all I have to work with. Where’s the proof he was doing something else?
Omar,
I don’t know if you’ve noticed but in the article I posted the link to the 183 page PDF file so please bear with me, I’m trying.
Wow! All of this sounds like a whole lot of work to catch one “suspicious” man to me. It’s not like he just robbed a bank or broke into someone’s house. I’m worn out just thinking about it. lol
All I can say is, If Zim is assuming he has to keep sight of this guy, then he’s being very foolish. He’s not the police, it’s not his job.
I really don’t see why any of this has anything to do with Martin being shot.
And I’m really trying not to be a Monday Morning Quarterback. I just avoid going to any other sites where people are offering up these ridiculous opinions as if they know these people personally.
It annoys me.
I will never go and watch a fight club he was in or read any of his tweets because his character has nothing to do with what happened to him.
I said this up thread. I’m not really keen on the idea of a Neighborhood Watch guy monitoring my home. Watching to see if the paper’s on the lawn, did I pick up the mail.
I’d have to sign up for that. That would make me uncomfortable, but that’s just me. I’m not the type that makes friends with my neighbors, other than to nod if I see them outside and I’m leaving.
TMI, IMO.
Omar,
As far as the phone call with DeeDee. I’m not worrying about that a bit. If she’s lying, so what. She’ll only perjure herself when O’Mara puts her on the stand and shows her the phone records. That’s what’s good about this case.
I’ve never been privy to so much information in such a short amount of time only minutes before someone is shot. All but 2 minutes are accounted for because Zim was on the phone most of the time with 911.
Omar.
Who’s Brandy Green? Is that Tracy Martin’s girlfriend?
Hmm… when I was listening to the 911 call when you can hear in the background “help, help”.
I’m wondering how would your voice sound if you were yelling help and at the same time you’re getting your head bashed on the sidewalk?
I don’t believe you could fully announciate , “Hellll-p” if your head in being jerked around.
It’s odd to me.
Oh well..Goodnight everyone. I’m going to bed. It’s been a long day.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf
ooops I forgot, here’s the link to docs that Omar gave to me. Its also in the article but I decided to post it here in case someone wants to take a look at them.
I just noticed something. In the Capias Request on page 26, there’s a huge paragraph blacked out. Maybe this is the evidence that we haven’t read yet.
Whatever it is, this officer wanted to arrest Zim for negligent manslaughter.
Ok, now I’m really going to bed.
Page 36,
Martin has no criminal history. There was one field call in November 2011 ..reacted…he was sent “somewhere” for getting suspended from school for cannabis.
There’s one suspension Blam you mentioned. I’m still looking.
I don’t recall ever say that TM was committing any crime. He was acting suspicious, according to Zimmerman. That’s why he called the police. Maybe TM had no intention to commit a crime at all. I don’t know because I wasn’t watching him, nor do I know what his intentions were. But Zimmerman was watching him, and apparently he did something that peaked Zimmerman’s suspicions. I guess we will have to wait until we either read a deposition transcript, or read a written statement from Zimmerman to hear what TM was doing that he found to be suspicious. But just because there is no record of a crime having been committed doesn’t mean TM could not have been doing something that looked suspicious. Maybe he was casing a place and noticed that someone was watching him so he stopped. I don’t KNOW. Likewise,just because there is no evidence that he had committed a crime prior to Zimmerman’s 911 call, does NOT mean that his behavior couldn’t have been such as to draw suspicion from someone who noticed him. Honestly….can we think of no scenarios where a crime was prevented because someone came along and the person who was going to commit the crime left so as not to be seen?? I’m not saying that Martin had committed a crime. I don’t know how to explain it so that you do understand what I’m saying. However, let’s just suffice it to say that just like there there is no proof that Martin was breaking any law, there is likewise no proof that he wasn’t behaving in such a way as to make someone suspicious. It’s not against the law to call the cops on someone who is acting suspicious. And so my whole point is that people keep acting as if TM was targeted for walking, but the reality is, we don’t KNOW what he was doing that caused Zimmerman to call the police. All we have is the beginning of Zimmerman’s call to the police where he tells them why he’s suspcious. So how can anyone other than eye witnesses say that Martin was walking home minding his own business???
And NO, I wasn’t saying TM was running. He could have been jogging around the neighborhood for all I know….but the only running I know about is in the transcript of Zimmerman’s call to the police. Maybe he was skipping or doing the Samba. I don’t know. I only know he ran while GZ was on the phone with the police. I am not understanding why you’re asking me about running. My statement about running is that once TM started to run (at Zim’s truck, or just past it based on the call to dispatch), he had more than enough time to run home if he was scared of Zimmerman. So where did he go while Zimmerman was still on the phone with police???? We don’t know. All we have are these times and distances, and we can speculate all day long. Bottom line is this….instead of going home, he encountered Zimmerman. Violently if you want to believe the evidence. So the question of this case is was it self defense or was Zimmerman profiling this kid? Who initiated the confrontation?? Was Zimmerman defending himself when he shot Martin???
We don’t have all the pieces of the puzzle right now. But what we do have are enough of the pieces available that we can start putting them together and start seeing a picture. What pictures will the jury see if it gets that far? I don’t know, because there are still pieces we haven’t seen.
But I haven’t seen a piece yet that tells me that TM was just innocently walking along doing nothing. The piece of the puzzle I have involves a call to police for a person behaving in a way that aroused Zimmerman’s suspicion. That doesn’t automatically IMPLY that there is some sort of proof that Martin had committed a crime, because if there were proof of that, I’d have posted the link.
Page 40,
On Feb 28th.
LE received an anonymous call from a female, claiming Zim was a racist and could have instigated the fight.
I guess this explains where the term “racist” came from. So at least I know it wasn’t a figment of someone’s imagination. It’s in the report. Police had this information.
Omar,
I don’t know either what it was that made Zim suspicious of TM. I thought I was being fair to Zim when I “speculated” that he was suspicious of TM because of recent burglaries. I didn’t say he was a racist or add it to the Capias Request that mentions Zims only calls of suspicious people were black. I purposely left that part out. If all of the suspicious ppl are black, oh well, thats just too bad. It is what it is. There’s no equal opportunity for suspicious ppl. lol And there shouldn’t be.
Maybe in the other 3 or 4 times when he call 911 because of a suspicious person, he explained why. Didn’t he mention recent burglaries to the dispatcher?
In this article, this is how I described the evening of Feb 26th.
I think the wording is fair and there is little to no speculation on my part because the word “suspicious” and nothing else was what Zim said and his reason for calling 911.
Now if I add “minding his own business” I think that’s fair too because in a 4 minute call to 911 if Zim had seen one other thing that TM was doing that “added to his suspicion”, he would have said it because he was giving the dispatcher a blow by blow the entire time he was on the phone.
So IMO, doing nothing but walking is minding your own business.
Note, I did not elaborate and say “the only thing he was carrying was a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea” I purposely left that out too because I don’t want to dwell on that.
Omar, I’m just trying to have a discussion based on facts in which we could elaborate more to add our opinion. As long as we base our opinion on a fact that we all agree on.
Example: Based on the fact that Zim only mentioned TM looked suspicious, in my opinion, its fair to say that he was minding his own business.
LOL
I can’t believe I’m explaining this when its so minute considering another person came here and said Trayvon probably stole the Skittles and the ice tea when there’s video showing he did not.
It’s this crazy talk thats driving me crazy!
JB,
GZ could’ve been yelling for help before he was attacked and before his head was bashed.
Sounds to me that TM was hiding then jumped GZ, ….But I dunno.
But my conspiracy mind peaked when I heard that Help, Help…..
Kind of sounded orchastrated to me, like it was dubbed in or something along that line….
And, I find it odd that we havent heard more about TM’s good character from high school friends etc
HEre in NY, atleast upstate where they have neighborhood watch. They just have signs posted
saying “Neighborhood Watch” and all that means is the neighbors all watch the surroundings, your
own property etc….If there’s something that looks like a drug deal or ppl hanging around and up to
no good then police is called and they come and check out the situation, patrol etc, etc.
I dont see anything wrong with that if houses were broken into and there is drug activity.
After all. There’s too many home invasions where people are being murdered.
IF that family in CT who was murdered, had a neighborhood watch, perhaps they would be alive today. Even
tho the dispatcher was called, it still took almost two hours for the police to get to that home….During that waiting time, two girls and their mother was raped, and set on fire…
I think if a GZ was patroling that neighborhood, they could’ve been alive today…That is just one
case.
Unfortunately we live in a time where the criminals are winning…..And perhaps there are
communities that place their trust with police……But if they’re not doing their jobs to protect
us, who is>?
I think perhaps GZ got spooked, then TM got spooked by GZ following him, and he jumped him. GZ called out for help when TM jumped him then they both fell to the ground…..
If TM lived there as people assumed then TM would’ve known that GZ was the watchman and there
was a neighborhood watch….
My personal feelings if this isnt a manufactured case for political purposes is this:
GZ was a threat to the drug deals and the thieves after the neighborhood elected him
as the main watch person…I’d like to know more about TM’s mother in law and father
and what their history is……I also suspect that perhaps TM was trying to intimidate GZ
in the beginning and that could’ve been the reason for the call……AFter all. We all
have instincts, and GZ’s peaked at an all time high that night, for some reason….
I guess we’ll find out….
Just sayin.
See, if GZ called TM every name in the book and TM jumped him. GZ was still standing his ground. AFter all , he was part of Neighborhood Watch, just like the rest of his neighbors. So, it doesn’t matter what GZ was doing….His proof is he called 911 to report what he thought was
suspicious activity, and that was TM…….
I dont think TM was living there. OR else GZ would’ve known him as being someone who lived in that community….
LipitorGeorge, it’s blam.
Haven’t chimed in for a while, until yesterday, but you and I, I believe, see this one the same way. TM had one or two twitter accounts, and I read his tweets, and they tell a different story re TM than the one the media was attempting to paint – between them and the fight videos that were on his You Tube account. I also would like to know more re the father and fiance re that night. TM did not live there in that community, but rather here in Miami Dade County. He was there serving out this 10 day suspension for the marijuana baggies (with residue) and marijuana pipe found in his backpack. And this was his 3rd suspension for this school year. Odd to me how he was left at home, while they went to dinner, and it was okay to just go out (no permission) ………. as if he was not being held accountable to his suspension. I do believe that it was GZ who was crying out for help, and that TM was on top doing the beating. By now the fight videos have probably been taken down, but I watched them several times. This was what appeared to be a fight club that was held during lunch at the school, and it pitted different ethnicities against each other. The fight moves were serious fighting moves. TM was in the videos. There is definitely a whole lot that has not come out. We still have to wait for all the evidence to come out. Nice talking w/ you again.
Omar, haven’t been on this site for a long while, but yesterday I replied to a post. I agree w/ your comment above. Have a great day my friend.
JB, he had 3 suspensions for this current school year. He has no criminal record/ no juvenile record. The first suspension was in the fall around Oct. 2011. This is the one that he was written up for grafitti but when they checked his bookbag the school security found it contained the women’s jewelry and the flat head screwdriver. He was not written up for the jewelry; instead he was written up for the grafitti (writing WTF on the school locker); there was a second one for being in the wrong area of the school/ like an off limits area and for tardiness/truancy. The third one was this last one in Feb. and this is the one for the baggies w/ marijuana residue and the marijuana pipe. This is a 10 day suspension. Miami Dade County had a rule, at least it did when my sons went to school, that if you were suspended 20 days out of the year, you could be expelled. W/ these 3 suspensions he had to have been close. I realize none of this would come up in trial, but this is his school history. I read all of this in the Miami Herald.
JB, yes Brandy Green is Tracy Martin’s girlfriend. She has been referred to as his fiance. it was her towhome inside the development.
Omar, nice readingyour posts once again. I see it the same way. Things here did not add up to me based on the media’s portrayal and I went over that 911 call based on the length of time, etc. Also, when he was breathing heavilly and when he stopped. When the dispatcher told him, “we don’t need you to do that (follow him). ” Zimmerman replied, “okay.” Now I lived for 20 years in a gated community, and I lived on 79th Terrace, but for the life of me I could not tell you if the street to the west of us, and I walked it many times was 79th Circle or 79th Lane or 79th whatever…. and the one behind that was it 80th Avenue, Circle, Terrace, Lane ??????? So, the fact that GZ was walking trying to get an address/ street name, doesn’t ring odd to me. I also think he felt he was doing the right thing bec in his mind he felt that this person (who had had called on ) might/ MIGHT have a gun. I have seen the location of the development and also believe that TM, given his height and age advantage, not to mention the time lead he had “when he ran”, had ample time to get back to the townhome, get inside and lock the door. Then he could have called the police if he felt threatened. I did read the tweets, and watch the fight videos…………. in an attempt to UNDERSTAND TM’s mindset. In any development that has had numerous foreclosures and therefore abandoned homes, it is logical that people will be watching out for what can happen in those homes. Thefts, drug dealings, the list goes on.
I totally agree with you, Blam.
I think that we keep getting caught up in the rabbit hole of comment semantics, because we respond to comments that say (and I’m paraphrasing this) “what gave Zimmerman the right to stop and chase this person who was just walking home, minding his own business, committing no crime?” Our answers to that are 1) because he was involved in a neighborhood program that encourages members to call the police to report anything suspicious that they see. 2) there is no proof that he was chasing anyone, but there is evidence that he was asked twice to let police dispatch know if he did anything else; he was asked which way TM was running; he was asked for an address of where he was located. So our answer to that statement is that we do acknowledge him leaving the vehicle and walking, but would not characterize that as “chasing”. 3) there is no proof that TM committed a crime prior to Zim’s call, but there is, likewise no proof that he wasn’t acting suspicious. On the contrary….we have the police call which states he’s acting suspcious.
Then we have the ol’ ANONYMOUS caller who called in and said GZ is a racist, blah blah blah…..which occurred after the parents had already lawyered up, if I’m not mistaken. And if this is a legitimate accusation, the I do hope the witness steps forward for questioning and cross examination. I mean, after all, I could anonymously call the police department and claim that anyone I know is racist and did this or that, but would that make it true? We can try it. Who wants me to call the police department in their pricinct and make anonymous accusations???
So Bllam and Lipitor….I agree with you guys!! I think that we’re just gonna have to see how this plays out. It’s already been Anthonied to death in the media….but there is WAY more to this politically and financially, as the three of us know, than what the news puts out there. I’m pretty sure before it’s all over with, at least one, if not more, of the attorneys involved are going to be making some headlines themselves…….only not in the way they were hoping to!
G’Morning! : )
I think that there were no witnesses that said Tryvon was doing anything other than walking home was because if anyone saw him, they didn’t see anything suspicious about him.
He wasn’t doing anything unusual.
If I had seen someone walking, I wouldn’t say they looked suspicious.
That’s exactly what Zimmerman told the 911 dispatcher, not a thing but he looks suspicious.
He didn’t even tell the dispatcher what he thought the assholes always get away.
Trayvon knew he was following him, so if Zimmerman went back to his truck why would Trayvon do the same?
Zimmerman said he looks like he’s on something. Really?
So at one point he was even close enough, face to face to tell the dispathcher, he’s wearing some kind of button. Looks like he’s on something. For me, that’s too close for comfort and that’s when Trayvon couldn’t do anything but ask why are you following me?
I say, good question, maybe after asking him that he would get a civil answer and
Trayvon would still be alive, but Zimmerman’s answer, What are you doing here?
That isn’t a very good neighborhood watch question.
He could have said he was George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch man.
ABOUT THE CRY!!
Trayvon’s Dad was not thinking yes, I’ve heard him cry for help like that.
Zimmerman’s brother said it was Zimmerman because he crys/yells just like him.
So to think a man get’s out of his truck and proceeds to follow him after the 911 dispatcher tells him we don’t need you to do that, George knows the police are on their way, he doesn’t know if Trayvon has or hasn’t a weapon, BUT he knows he does and he’s going to get out with it.
AND then right after the shot, the crying stopped!
And whether Trayvon’s Dad knew that was his son, his Mother did.
When the police arrive, George was not in his truck.
And Trayvon was dead. Face down with his hands over his heart.
The only person’s testimony that we really know is Zimmerman’s because
Trayvon can’t testify for himself.
That just kills me for people to think it was George crying. WHY? He had the gun!
Did he think someone else would come out and shoot Trayvon?
They couldn’t make an excuse they “were standing their ground”
totally agree Omar.
Yes there is an eyewitness report that someone was chasing someone on foot too. Read the report. We know for a FACT that GZ got out of his vehicle. That’s another fact.
That phone call came in on Feb 28, 2 days after his death. Omar, LOL That witness isn’t even identified so how are they going to come forward to say anything? And Why would you say that? Because you think I want to paint GZ as a racist. I simply pointed out a fact that someone did this.
And what attorneys are you talking about? Don’t tell me? The blogs are hating on the attorneys! LOL Perfect! I love it! That’s just proves how stupid they are!
Okay, that’s enough for awhile.
Omar, I was hoping to never know about these things because I feel like being baffled with bullshit serves no purpose. Its just more propaganda.
Loly,
They’re still trying to figure out who’s voice it is but TM’s mother says its his.. So IDK but IMO it’s not Martin’s.
I find that “Help, Help” bullshit a little odd. I’m sorry, I do. How many times are you able to scream the word “help” so clearly while your face is being battered and your head is being bashed into the ground? One witness said that the guy on top was doing some martial arts moves on Zim. I think instead of yelling for help, most people while in a fight scream “STOP!” “he’s killing me!” “Call the police”
On page 41, there was another witness that said something a little different, this witness says, she heard someone say “here take my gun” This was before LE got there so who’s handing over a gun to who?
I think there’s more to this case and its the “HELP” screaming that throws me off. We’ll see.
I think it’s nearly impossible for Zim to know the faces of everyone who lived there. Hmm.. And I don’t even like that idea. I don’t want the neighbor guy to know my face. Unless, I paid him to be my personal bodyguard.
So what does that mean. If I live in those condos where I’m paying HOA fees, I can’t have a boyfriend knock on my door at 3 in th morning?
What if some A-hole reports my kid for coming home from the prom a little tipsy?
You mean some A-hole is going to call the police and put my son in the judicial process?!!!
Whaaaat!!
No thanks, I’ll take my freedom and right to privacy any day before wanting someone like Zim patroling my neighborhood. Look what he did!! Killed somebody! Thats a fact!
3 burglaries in 4 month period is not a lot. It’s not enough to make people get crazy. LOL
So I need to watch the outcome of this cae. It could set a precedent that I won’t like.
I think the death of Trayvon Martin was avoidable. Bottom line. There’s no need to put yourself in danger when you know the police are on the way.
Poor George Zimmerman, he was so tired of everytime he called 911 to report a suspicious man, they always got a way.
He’s was starting to feel useless. He wasn’t getting that perfect sense of satisfaction that he wanted for helping people and making a difference. So getting out the safety of his vehicle was easy. This one was not going to get away.
God bless us.
JB,
I know there has to be a lot more to this case.
In the documents someone else is saying here take my gun?
So maybe there were more than just the two of them?
Do you think it was Zimmerman’s voice?
There’s quiet a bit of this that throws me off. : )
Maybe I’ll gain my sanity after the trial.
You know, some times you wonder WHY things like this effect us anyway, but
we don’t want someone to just be able to kill and there not be a trial.
I was shocked that it had been almost a month when I heard about it.
The media usually jumps in to be the first, but this time, I don’t know about Florida, but
here it was the first time I had thought about it!!!
GOT A WORD??? LOL
Even Mr. Loly asked what is the word today! : )
Amazing how our emotions take over.
Perhaps zimmm did have a cocky
Attitude. But. When it all boils
Down to it TM might have jumped
Him. Doesn’t matter if Zimm was
The biggest wannabe Ahole. He
From what the def will prob say is
He was protecting himself.
I guess if the crime continued with
No protection perhaps the system
Outta be on trial. Maybe it is. This
Case “designed”. To slowly remove
Our rights. This is why I keep
Saying this case is more political
More than anything. Jmoo.
Loly.
I agree there has to be more. Like
At first I thought it was a drug deal
Gone bad or something along those
Lines. And the call for help sounded
Scripted. Just saying.
On phone. Off to work again.
GasCanGeorge,
AGREED!!
It is GasCan,
That’s why we’re admonished from the judge to not let it happen.
Everyone see’s hear’s even witnesses different things that happen right
before their eyes.
CRAZY!!
Loly said, and I quote: (snipped) “So to think a man get’s out of his truck and proceeds to follow him after the 911 dispatcher tells him we don’t need you to do that,…..”
THAT’s where we disagree. GZ did NOT follow Martin AFTER he was told not to. GZ got out of the truck, the dispatcher says “are you following him?”, Zim says, “yeah”, dispatcher says, “we don’t need you to do that”, Zim says, “OK”. wind noise dies down. No more heavy breathing. He continues to talk to the dispatcher.
Where are you getting that Zimmerman gets out of his truck and follows Martin AFTER he was told not to??
And JB….I am in NO WAY saying you are implying that Zim was a racist. In fact, you have stated unequivocably that you do NOT feel this is a race issue. I was simply speaking to the lack of credibility of a “witness” who calls anonymously 2 days later (which you referenced in your comment and pointed to the page number in the documents) to accuse Zimmerman of being a racist. My point was that, if this is a credible witness, I truly pray she comes forward so that she can be questioned and cross-examined. It would be no different for me in ANY case, regardless of what the facts of the case are. Anyone can call anonymously at any time and accuse someone of anything they want to. But that doesn’t make it true. Nor does it make it untrue. It’s just not a reliable witness…..and unless she comes forward, her anonymous call isn’t going to be included into evidence. That was my point. Wasn’t trying to dazzle you with bulloni or otherwise.
========================================================================
I’m sorry Omar. I don’t know why your comment when into mod.
my apologies,
JB
In response to this comment, the only reason I pointed out that particular phone call was to explain, Perhaps, HOW the word “racist” came into discussion. Just an incidental finding on my part. No other point intended.
And I know you meant well. It’s hard to converse online sometimes. It really does get confusing.
Hi all. Hope you’re having a wonderful day. Loly, I think LE were there within seconds of the shot and GZ said that to an officer, giving him his gun. Zimmerman’s isn’t the only testimony we know. There are several witness statements in that doc dump and we’ve heard the 911 calls. Did I miss something? Where does it say that Zimmerman didn’t identify himself or that all he said was what are you doing here? I don’t know that it matters, in the long run but was curious. The closest we will get to what conversation took place before they ended up on the ground will be GZ’s testimony or statement, if it is used. That may be part of what is redacted.
The DNA doc, page 108 says a couple of the samples taken from TMs left cuff had mixed DNA they couldn’t quite identify. Perhaps there is a more sensitive test they can run. I’ll bet it is a mix of his and GZ, fitting a left handed person hitting another and matching the cut on GZ’s right side of noze and chin. TM must be left handed. There was no foreign DNA found on the right cuff which there should be if the DNA got there by putting both hands up to protect from an attacker or if someone were on top of him and the hands went up in self defense. The same page says there was no blood on the cuffs of the jacket so, Loly, I doubt he put his hands to his heart when he fell forward. The gunshot entered his heart. It also says there was no foreign dna on the jacket sleeves so the shirt sleeves must have hung below the jacket sleeves.
There were 14 blood stains on Zimmerman’s shirt, all belonging to him, not TM. There were 17 blood stains on his jacket. 9 belonged to him, some were mixed, some were mixed but couldn’t determine who the other was. Some showed GZ’s for sure but couldn’t determine the other profile, some showed enough to not rule out it belonging to TM. Common sense is all that is needed for those. Page 124 shows evidence that GZ is right handed, on piece of led from the shot found on the underside of the right sleeve.
PG 127 TM is 5’11″, 158lbs. and has no wounds beside the gunshot and a small abrasion on the left 4th finger (is that the pinky or rign finger?). This is evidence of possibly being left handed and to be the one to throw a punch. It says his teeth are all natural so were those gold caps just pretend clip ons? Is that sort of like wearing colored contacts to change the eye color? I gotta stay up to date or my kids will think I’m getting old.
JB, I live in a rural area that is quickly getting developed. I live on a piece of land that is still surrounded by a quarter square mile of farm land, dotted with a few houses, including mine but there are a couple of subdivisions in process. We have a neighborhood watch too, although not quite as organized. It was started when there were several break-ins within this 1 or 2 square mile area. It consists of people keeping an eye out and reporting to the captain via email or phone if anything happens, as well as sharing timely advise. They suggest letting a neighbor know when you’ll be out of town so they can get the mail, keep an eye out, etc. My house isn’t vulnerable because there is no routine and almost always someone is home because we home school. Like it or not, lots of neighbors watch neighbors, out of curiosity if not plain nosiness. So even if there is no watch someone is likely watching.
With the “evidence” thus far, I think it was self defense. It could have been avoided, yes. We all have regrets, things we’ve done that we shouldn’t have. This is a biggie and I’m sure GZ wishes he’d never left to go to the store that night. But its done. The important thing now is that this not be a political maneuver or a trip back to the future where we start all over again with the process of learning tolerance for our fellow man regardless of color of skin. Yes, GZ may have profiled TM as the same age range, dress, manner, color as those that had been involved in neighborhood robberies. That is a natural profiling that even LE does and most any of us would do the same. The emails revealed that a suspect in a recent robbery hadn’t yet been tracked down and arrested and most likely other robberies were never solved. So it is natural that, if he thought he was part of that group of robbers, he would not want him to get out of sight. It just got out of hand. Since Zimmerman is the one with wounds and his blood all over himself mixed with TM’s, I’d say he was attacked. Asking him who he is or why he is there does not justify that, the way I understand the law. The pictures of his hands are spotless but that isn’t true of the description of TM’s left hand.
Zeuben, it’s blam. Haven’t been hear in a while, and just posted yesterday. To answer one of your questions: yes, you can get gold “clip ons”. They go to a jeweler or someone who works w/ gold and have an impression done in some mushy stuff and get the mold made and then put them on and take them off.
/blam
Omar,
I think Loly got that information from the Capias Request.
The documents show …
I agree with you. Loly said he followed Trayvon. Not true because according to the report, Zim lost site of him so he couldn’t follow him.
I gleaned from this report, considering where the shooting occurred that Zim was several feet away from his truck. I can safely assume that Zims intention was to locate Trayvon Martin for LE.
I gathered that from part of the 911 transcript that you posted.
How else is he going to locate Trayvon without getting out of his truck? He doesn’t have X-ray vision, so he’s looking for him.
That’s fair. So can we agree that Zim got out of his truck to locate Martin for LE?
So its not “following” TM. He just got out of his truck to “locate him” ?
Hi Zuben,
I always look forward to your comments. You mentioned how TM could have had his hands over his heart. I don’t know if his hands were over his heart but the reports says the victim was lying in on his stomach with his hands beneath him but it doesn’t say “where” his hands were underneath him.
This is great! This is exactly the way I wanted this thread to work.
Thank you all so much!
Zubie, you said..
snipped;
Interesting. I’m surprised that GZ doesn’t have any of TM’s blood on his clothing. If he shot Trayvon while he was on top of him slamming his head on the ground, I’d think because of the close proximity, there would be some splatter onto GZ’s shirt or at least the sleeves of his jacket.
Thats strange.
Hi Blam. Nice to see you. Thank you for the info. I figured as much, having a real cap myself, hidden in the back, of course. I try for a different kind of cool.
gold is more permenent than the other kind.
You’re welcome, JB. GZ’s shirt had only his own blood but the jacket had some mixed DNA so I would guess it was a mix of both of them, especially since TM couldn’t be ruled out as the other donar. He may have had his jacket partially or fully closed at the time which would keep TM’s blood off his shirt.
Zuben,
I remember years ago, there were Neighborhood Watch signs popping up all over the city. In live in the suburbs. I looked at it as more of a deterrent than an actual group of people watching out for us. Who knew there really were “George Zimmermans” in the world who took this to a whole new level?
If given a chance to vote on a person running for Neighborhood Watch Captain, I certainly would not vote for someone with GZ’s temperment.
You may be right. George Zimmerman might be found not guilty of killing Trayvon Martin in a court of law. He took a beating, not as badly as I would hope considering a young man is dead due to his misplaced self worth.
I consider myself to be a good judge of character and just by his calls to 911 and his arrogant so called apology to Sybrina Fulton in court. I feel very strongly that he was a ticking time bomb. He was bound to cause pain to someone somewhere it just happened to be Trayvon Martin which was really bad for him. It was bad for him that TM’s mother happens to be a respectful woman, on her job for over 20 years. Had she been a welfare mom and his father MIA, I doubt we would have ever heard about this case. She had the good sense to hire the right lawyer to get her son’s story out to the world. I think we all needed to hear Trayvon’s story.
I just wonder if he’s acquitted if he automatically gets his gun back? Hmm..now that’s a scary thougth too.
So to think a man get’s out of his truck and proceeds to follow him after the 911 dispatcher tells him we don’t need you to do that, George knows the police are on their way???
Yes, this time I will say I know that I said it wrong,
I think, if I’m not misstaken that any of the other times that I spoke about it, I said he was following Trayvon and the dispatcher told him we don’t need you to do that.
This time I misspoke it. 1. I meant Zimmerman was in his truck, he didn’t have to get out, BUT he does and is following him 2. The disptacher tells him after asking are you following him and he says yes, that you don’t need to do that. 3. After that, knowing the police were on their way, he tells the dispatcher, he’s on something, somethings wrong with him. Then says he’s wearing a button.
Was that after the dispatcher had told him we don’t need you to do that or before?
http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/05/19/why/
Hi Loly,
I know its frustrating…trying to explain your thoughts with the perfect words.
Hey! You have got to visit this site I posted.
Frederick Leatherman is a lawyer from Kentucky, ( I think) Anyway, he’s got a few really good articles up.
There’s even one about the forensics in this case. Cool stuff.
Be sure to read it if you have time.
I just had to snip this from Fred Leatherman’s blog.
How can a person who’s just killed someone be so calm? Amazing.
G’Morning! : )
JB,
When I read it over, I knew I had made a mistake, but not until it was brought
to my attention!
Or I would have written it under my post to begin with.
Anyway, got that straight. : )
I eed a proof reader. lol
That calm? especially too after thinking he had to kill to survive.
Amazing is right!
Thanks for sending the link.
I’m going to read it right now.
This is the report from the EMT?
after reading that yes, i would have to agree that it is unusually calm considering the circumstances… but after all these years on this earth i have seen some crazy unusual behavior after things have occurred that i will forever consider unusual… but hey i tend to be a bit emotional about stuff especially if i caused someone else harm without intending too… so i would be not so calm… so it is a hard one to tell at this point…
attaching the court document for the charges against GZ in the event it hasn’t been posted yet, if so, sorry in advance
wishing you all a great day/evening
Detailed Information for Case 592012CF001083A
Case Number: 592012CF001083A
Judge: LESTER JR, KENNETH R
Defendant Name: GEORGE ZIMMERMAN
DOB: 10/1983
Proceeding: DOCKET SOUNDING
Courtroom: 5B
Court Date: 08-08-2012
Time: 08:30AM
1 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE
05/14/2012 FREE STATE’S REDACTED DISCOVERY EXHIBIT AND DEMAND FOR RECIPROCAL DISCOVERY
05/10/2012 SYS NOTICE FOR DOCKET SOUNDING AUG 08, 2012 AT 08:30 AM PRINTED
05/09/2012 SYS NOTICE FOR DOCKET SOUNDING AUG 08, 2012 AT 08:30 AM PRINTED
05/08/2012 DKSN DOCKET SOUNDING [E] – DATE: 08/08/2012 – TIME: 0830AM – CTRM: 5B
05/08/2012 ORGR ORDER GRANTING CONTINUANCE
05/08/2012 PRNO NOTICE TO ALL PARTIES
05/08/2012 MNFD DEFENSE ATTORNEY WAS NOT PRESENT FOR ARRAIGNMENT
05/08/2012 MNFD STATE ATTORNEY SUE PIERCE/LORI THOMPSON WAS PRESENT FOR ARRAIGNMENT
05/08/2012 DNP DEFENDANT WAS NOT PRESENT FOR ARRAIGNMENT
05/08/2012 MNF MINUTES FOR ARRAIGNMENT BEFORE JUDGE KENNETH R LESTER JR.
05/08/2012 MNFD WAIVER OF APPEARANCE PREVIOUSLY FILED
05/08/2012 DKSN DOCKET SOUNDING SET FOR 08/08/2012 AT 0830AM IN COURTROOM 5B, AT CRIMINAL
05/08/2012 DKSN –JUSTICE BUILDING BEFORE JUDGE KENNETH R LESTER JR.
05/08/2012 PLNG (1)MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE 782.04(2) 775.087(1)(A) F-L: DEFENDANT ENTERED
05/08/2012 PLNG –A PLEA OF NOT GUILTY
05/08/2012 MNFD (1)MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE 782.04(2) 775.087(1)(A) F-L: DEFENDANT
05/08/2012 MNFD –CONTINUED ON BOND
05/08/2012 WSDY WAIVER OF SPEEDY TRIAL
05/08/2012 MOCO MOTION FOR CONTINUANCE
05/03/2012 COPY COPY OF NOTICE FOR COURT 5/8/12 MAILED TO STATE ATTORNEY’S OFFICE-DUVAL COUNTY
04/30/2012 ORFF CURRENT ADDRESS/LOCATION OF THE DEF OR HIS SPOUSE SHALL REMAIN SEALED
04/30/2012 ORFF PARTIES, WITNESSES, OR ATTORNEY WHILE AT COURTHOUSE AND DOCUMENTS CONTAINING THE
04/30/2012 ORFF STATE’S MOTION FOR GAG ORDER IS DENIED. DOCUMENTS ADDRESSING THE SECURITY OF THE
04/30/2012 ORFF ORDER ON MATTERS ADDRESSED AT 4/27/12 HEARING
04/27/2012 MOTN CBS NEWS’S AND WFOR-TV’S MOTION TO INTERVENE AND NOTICE OF JOINDER
04/27/2012 MOTN MOTION FOR GAG ORDER
04/27/2012 MNFD –AN ORE TENUS MOTION TO HAVE DISCOVERY REMAIN SEALED AS IT PERTAINS TO THE
04/27/2012 MNFD –ENTERTAIN THE STATE’S MOTION FOR GAG ORDER AT THIS TIME. ATTORNEY OMARA MADE
04/27/2012 MNFD –WITNESSES NAMES AND ADDRESSES. STATE ATTORNEY ADDRESSED THE COURT ON THE ORE
04/27/2012 MNFD –ADDRESSED THE COURT REGARDING THE STATE’S MOTION. THE COURT DID NOT
04/27/2012 MNFD –WAIVED DEFENDANT’S APPEARANCE FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS HEARINGATTORNEY OMARA
04/27/2012 MNFD THE STATE’S MOTION FOR GAG ORDER WAS FILED IN OPEN COURT.ATTORNEY OMARA
04/27/2012 MNFD STATE ATTORNEY BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, JOHN GUY WAS PRESENT FOR MOTION
04/27/2012 DNP DEFENDANT WAS NOT PRESENT FOR MOTION
04/27/2012 MNF MINUTES FOR MOTION BEFORE JUDGE KENNETH R LESTER JR.
04/27/2012 MNFD –TENUS MOTION.ATTORNEY PONCE FOR THE MEDIA SUBMITTED CASE LAW AND ARGUMENT ON
04/27/2012 MNFD –THE DEFENSE ORE TENUS MOTION. THE COURT ORDERS THE MATTER WILL BE ADDRESSED
04/27/2012 MNFD –ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS. ATTORNEY OMARA ADVISED THE COURT OF A CHANGE IN
04/27/2012 MNFD DEFENSE ATTORNEY OMARA, MARK M WAS PRESENT FOR MOTION
04/27/2012 MNFD –CONTINUED ON BOND
04/27/2012 MNFD (1)MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE 782.04(2) 775.087(1)(A) F-L: DEFENDANT
04/27/2012 MNFD –ORDERED ON THIS 27TH DAY OF APRIL 2012 IN OPEN COURT.
04/27/2012 MNFD –PREVIOUSLY SET FOR ARRAIGNMENT ON MAY 8, 2012 130PM COURTROOM 1A.DONE AND
04/27/2012 MNFD –PREPARE A WRITTEN ORDER OF THE RULINGS OF MATTERS PRESENTED.CASE REMAINS AS
04/27/2012 MNFD –CONTAINING ANY ADDRESSES OF ATTORNEYS INVOLVED, TAG NUMBERS, ETC.COURT WILL
04/27/2012 MNFD –DEFENDANT’S FINANCIAL STATUS. STATE ATTORNEY MADE AN ORE TENUS MOTION FOR
04/27/2012 MNFD –COURT TO RAISE THE BOND. COURT RESERVED RULING AT THIS TIME AND ORDERS
04/27/2012 MNFD –ATTORNEY OMARA TO PROVIDE GENESIS OF THE ACCOUNT, WHO IS IN CHARGE OF THE
04/27/2012 MNFD –ACCOUNT, DATE OF PAYMENTS AND HOW MONEY BECAME AWARE TO DEFENDANT. THE COURT
04/27/2012 MNFD –ORDERED ANY ADMINISTRATIVE PAPERWORK WILL BE STRICKEN FROM THE COURT FILE,
04/26/2012 NOHR NOTICE OF HEARING – DATE: 04/27/2012 – TIME: 0900AM – CTRM: 5B
04/24/2012 NOHR NOTICE OF HEARING – DATE: 04/27/2012 – TIME: 0900AM – CTRM: 5B
04/23/2012 ORD ORDER TO UNSEAL COURT FILE
04/23/2012 BDSL BOND SLIP – TYPE: SU – BOND#: X3H0000875 – AMT: $150000.00 – NAME: MAGIC U S
04/20/2012 FREE CLOTHING AND WITHOUT RESTRAINTS AT ALL PROCEEDINGS
04/20/2012 FREE STATE’S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT’S MOTION TO PERMIT DEFENDANT TO APPEAR IN CIVILIAN
04/20/2012 FREE POLICIES OF THE SEMINOLE COUNTY SHERIFF’S OFFICE.
04/20/2012 FREE CIVILIAN CLOTHING AT THE BOND HEARING AND IS TO BE RESTRAINED IN ACCORDANCE TO
04/20/2012 ORD ORDER ON MATTERS ADDRESSED AT STATUS CONFERENCE PERMITTING DEFENDANT TO DRESS IN
04/20/2012 FREE DEFENSE WITNESSES MAY APPEAR TELEPHONICALLY FOR BOND HEARING
04/20/2012 EXID EXHIBIT & IDENTIFICATION LIST
04/20/2012 PRES DEFENDANT WAS PRESENT FOR MOTION
04/20/2012 MNFD –TELEPHONE AND ADMINISTERED THE OATH TO WITNESSES. RULE OF SEQUESTRATION WAS
04/20/2012 MNFD –ZIMMERMAN WAS DULY SWORN AND TESTIFIED. DEFENSE ATTORNEY OMARA PRESENTED
04/20/2012 MNFD –INVOKED BY DEFENSE.DEFENSE WITNESS NO. 1 SHELLY ZIMMERMAN WAS PRESENT VIA
04/20/2012 MNFD –TELEPHONE, WAS DULY SWORN AND TESTIFIED.STATE’S EXHIBIT NO. 1 WAS RECEIVED
04/20/2012 MNFD –PASSPORT IN OPEN COURT. NOTARY PUBLIC: LEANDRA GALLEGO WAS PRESENT VIA
04/20/2012 MNFD COURT PROCEEDED WITH THE DEFENSE MOTION TO SET BOND.DEFENDANT SURRENDERED
04/20/2012 MNFD DEFENSE ATTORNEY OMARA, MARK M WAS PRESENT FOR MOTION
04/20/2012 MNFD –MOTION
04/20/2012 MNFD STATE ATTORNEY BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, ANGELA COREY, JOHN GUY WAS PRESENT FOR
04/20/2012 MNFD DEFENDANT SWORN
04/20/2012 MNFD DEFENDANT WAS IN CUSTODY
04/20/2012 MNFD –INTO EVIDENCE.STATE’S EXHIBIT NO. 2 WAS RECEIVED INTO EVIDENCE.DEFENSE
04/20/2012 MNFD –WITNESS NO. 2: ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, SR. WAS PRESENT VIA TELEPHONE, WAS DULY SWORN
04/20/2012 MNFD –AND TESTIFIED. DEFENSE WITNESS NO. 3: GLADYS ZIMMERMAN WAS PRESENT VIA
04/20/2012 MNFD (1)MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE 782.04(2) 775.087(1)(A) F-L: DEFENDANT RETURNED
04/20/2012 MNFD –AND/OR PLEADINGS ARE TO BE SENT TO DEFENDANT VIA ATTORNEY OMARA’S OFFICE.
04/20/2012 MNFD –DAY OF APRIL 2012 IN OPEN COURT.**AMENDED MINUTES TO REFLECT: ANY NOTICES
04/20/2012 MNFD –ARRAIGNMENT ON MAY 8, 2012 130PM COURTROOM 1A.DONE AND ORDERED ON THIS 20TH
04/20/2012 MNFD –HAVE NO CONTACT WITH ANY WITNESSES. CASE REMAINS AS PREVIOUSLY SET FOR
04/20/2012 MNFD –TO ADVISE G.P.S. PERSONNEL OF LOCATION EVERY THREE DAYS;- DEFENDANT IS TO
04/20/2012 MNFD –PHYSICIAN.- DEFENDANT IS TO ABIDE BY CURFEW OF 7PM TO 6AM; – DEFENDANT IS
04/20/2012 MNFD –POSSESSION OR CONSUMPTION OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES UNLESS PRESCRIBED BY A
04/20/2012 MNFD –DESTRUCTIVE DEVICE;- NO POSSESSION OR CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL. – NO
04/20/2012 MNFD –DIRECTLY, INDIRECTLY OR BY THIRD PARTY;- NO POSSESSION OF FIREARMS OR
04/20/2012 MNFD –TO FACILITATE SECURE RELEASE OF DEFENDANT. – NO CONTACT WITH VICTIM’S FAMILY
04/20/2012 MNFD –MONITOR. – STATE AND DEFENSE ARE TO MEET WITH SEMINOLE COUNTY SHERIFF OFFICE
04/20/2012 MNFD –COURT. COURT FINDS THAT THE MOTION IS WELL TAKEN AND GRANTED WITH THE
04/20/2012 MNFD –ARGUMENTS TO THE COURT. STATE ATTORNEY DELARIONDA PRESENTED ARGUMENTS TO THE
04/20/2012 MNFD –DALE GILBREATH WAS DULY SWORN AND TESTIFIED.DEFENSE WITNESS NO. 5: GEORGE
04/20/2012 MNFD –TELEPHONE, WAS DULY SWORN AND TESTIFIED. DEFENSE WITNESS NO. 4: INVESTIGATOR
04/20/2012 MNFD –TO CUSTODY, BOND REDUCED TO $150000.00.
04/20/2012 MNFD –FOLLOWING SPECIAL CONDITIONS: – DEFENDANT IS TO BE FITTED WITH G.P.S.
04/20/2012 MNF1 1ST AMENDED MINUTES FOR MOTION BEFORE JUDGE KENNETH R LESTER JR.
04/20/2012 MNF MINUTES FOR MOTION BEFORE JUDGE KENNETH R LESTER JR.
04/20/2012 MOTN FLORIDA PRESS ASSOCIATION’S MOTION TO INTERVENE AND NOTICE OF JOINDER
04/20/2012 SYS NOTICE FOR ARRAIGNMENT MAY 08, 2012 AT 01:30 PM PRINTED
04/19/2012 ORRA ORDER OF REASSIGNMENT – FROM: M TO: E : LESTER JR, KENNETH R
04/19/2012 ARSC ARRAIGNMENT SET [E] – DATE: 05/08/2012 – TIME: 0130PM – CTRM: 1A
04/19/2012 AMHR SECOND AMENDED NOTICE OF HEARING – DATE: 04/20/2012 – TIME: 0900AM
04/19/2012 AMHR AMENDED NOTICE OF HEARING – DATE: 04/20/2012 – TIME: 0900AM
04/19/2012 MOTN MOTION TO PERMIT THE DEFENDANT TO APPEAR IN CIVILIAN CLOTHING AND WITHOUT
04/19/2012 MOTN RESTRAINTS AT ALL PROCEEDINGS
04/19/2012 MOTN BOND HEARING
04/19/2012 MOTN MOTION TO ALLOW TELEPHONIC TESTIMONY FROM FAMILY MEMBERS AT DEFENDANT’S
04/18/2012 ORD ORDER ORDER GRANTING DEFENDANT’S VERIFIED MOTION TO DISQUALIFY TRIAL JUDGE
04/18/2012 MOTN HEARST CORPORATION’S MOTION TO INTERVENE AND NOTICE OF JOINDER
04/17/2012 AFPC AFFIDAVIT PROBABLE CAUSE (ORIGINAL)
04/16/2012 CARE CAPIAS RETURNED EXECUTED
04/16/2012 MOTN AND PUBLIC RECORDS
04/16/2012 MOTN MOTION TO INTERVENE FOR THE LIMITED PURPOSE OF OPPOSING CLOSURE OF JUDICIAL
04/16/2012 MOTN DEFENDANT’S VERIFIED MOTION TO DISQUALIFY TRIAL JUDGE
04/16/2012 NOHR NOTICE OF HEARING – DATE: 04/20/2012 – TIME: 0900AM – CTRM: UNK
04/16/2012 MOTN MOTION TO SET REASONABLE BOND
04/16/2012 NAPP NOTICE OF APPEARANCE – NAME: OMARA, MARK M
04/16/2012 WAAR WAIVER OF ARRAIGNMENT
04/16/2012 WPNG WRITTEN PLEA NOT GUILTY
04/16/2012 DDIS DEMAND FOR DISCOVERY
04/16/2012 MOSP MOTION FOR STATEMENT OF PARTICULARS
04/16/2012 RFJT REQUEST FOR JURY TRIAL
04/16/2012 MOTN UNSEAL JUDICIAL AND PUBLIC RECORDS
04/16/2012 MOTN MEDIA COMPANIES’ MOTION TO INTERVENE, TO VACATE CLOSURE ORDER, AND TO
04/13/2012 MNFD –DEFENSE ATTORNEY MARK O’MARA PRESENT TELEPHONICALLY.DEFENSE ATTORNEY MARK
04/13/2012 MNFD STATE ATTORNEY ANGELA COREY, ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY BERNIE DE LA RIONDA AND
04/13/2012 MNFD DEFENSE ATTORNEY MARK O’MARA WAS PRESENT FOR MOTION
04/13/2012 MNFD STATE ATTORNEY BERNIE DE LA RIONDA WAS PRESENT FOR MOTION
04/13/2012 MNFD DEFENDANT WAS IN CUSTODY
04/13/2012 MNF MINUTES FOR MOTION BEFORE JUDGE JESSICA J RECKSIEDLER
04/13/2012 DNP DEFENDANT WAS NOT PRESENT FOR MOTION
04/13/2012 MNFD –O’MARA WAIVED HIS CLIENTS APPEARANCE DURING THIS HEARING. STATUS HEARING WAS
04/13/2012 MNFD –HELD. COURT DISCLOSED HER CONNECTION TO THE NEJAME LAW FIRM.**ORDER**COURT
04/13/2012 MNFD –TO CUSTODY.
04/13/2012 MNFD (1)MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE 782.04(2) 775.087(1)(A) F-L: DEFENDANT RETURNED
04/13/2012 MNFD –ARRAIGNMENT ON MAY 29, 2012 AT 1:30PM IN COURTROOM 1-A*
04/13/2012 MNFD –IN OPEN COURT THIS 13TH DAY OF APRIL, 2012.*CASE REMAINS SET FOR
04/13/2012 MNFD –MINUTES ARE TO BE SEALED UNTIL FURTHER ORDER OF THE COURT. DONE AND ORDERED
04/12/2012 INTA INTAKE SHEET
04/12/2012 FREE INVESTIGATOR
04/12/2012 FREE ORIGINAL SECOND SUPPLEMENTAL DESIGNATION OF ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEYS AND
04/12/2012 FREE APPEARING FOR ZIMMERMAN
04/12/2012 FREE BERNIE DE LA RIONDA ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY FOR THE 4TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
04/12/2012 AFPC AFFIDAVIT PROBABLE CAUSE(COPY)
04/12/2012 MNFD STATE ATTORNEY ANGELA B. COREY WAS PRESENT FOR FIRST APPEARANCE
04/12/2012 MNFD DEFENDANT WAS ADVISED OF RIGHTS
04/12/2012 MNFD DEFENDANT WAS IN CUSTODY
04/12/2012 PRES DEFENDANT WAS PRESENT FOR FIRST APPEARANCE
04/12/2012 MNF1 1ST AMENDED MINUTES FOR FIRST APPEARANCE BEFORE JUDGE MARK E HERR
04/12/2012 MNFD –THE PROBABLE CAUSE AFFIDAVIT WAS FAXED TO THE COURT.THE STATE IS TO FILE
04/12/2012 MNFD DEFENSE ATTORNEY MARK OMARA WAS PRESENT FOR FIRST APPEARANCE
04/12/2012 MNFD ATTORNEY OMARA TO FILE NOTICE OF APPEARANCE WITH THE CLERKS OFFICE.A COPY OF
04/12/2012 ARSC –RECKSIEDLER
04/12/2012 ARSC ARRAIGNMENT SET FOR 05/29/2012 AT 0130PM IN COURTROOM 1A WITH JUDGE JESSICA J
04/12/2012 MNFD (1)MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE 782.04(2) 775.087(1)(A) F-L: NO BOND ISSUED
04/12/2012 MNFD PROBABLE CAUSE FOUND
04/12/2012 MNFD –AFFIDAVIT IS NOT TO BE SEALED.THE DEFENDANTS ADDRESS AND ANY INFORMATION OF
04/12/2012 MNFD –REMAIN IN THE COURT FILE.AMENDED TO REFLECT PER THE COURT THE PROBABLE CAUSE
04/12/2012 MNFD –ORIGINAL PROBABLE CAUSE AFFIDAVIT WITH THE CLERKS OFFICE.ATTORNEY OMARA
04/12/2012 MNFD –ADDRESSED THE PERSONAL INFORMATION IN THE FILE AND REQUESTED THE COURT SEAL
04/12/2012 MNFD –THE RECORD. PER STIPULATION OF THE PARTIES, ANY DOCUMENTS FILED AFTER THE
04/12/2012 MNFD –PROBABLE CAUSE AFFIDAVIT ARE TO BE SEALED.THE PROBABLE CAUSE AFFIDAVIT IS TO
04/12/2012 MNFD –THE DEFENDANT’S WHEREABOUTS ARE TO BE SEALED.
04/12/2012 MNF MINUTES FOR FIRST APPEARANCE BEFORE JUDGE MARK E HERR
04/12/2012 ORRT ORDER REASSIGNMENT AND TRANSFER – FROM: N TO: M : RECKSIEDLER, JESSICA J
04/12/2012 ATFD ARREST REPORT – DATE: 04/11/2012
04/12/2012 BDBD SET BONDSMAN – AMT: $0 – STATUS: NOB
04/12/2012 FIAP FIRST APPEARANCE SET – DATE: 04/12/2012 – TIME: 0130PM – CTRM: J2
04/11/2012 CISG CAPIAS SIGNED AND ISSUED – DATE: 04/11/2012
04/11/2012 BDBD SET BONDSMAN – AMT: $0 – STATUS: NOB
04/11/2012 CIDI CAPIAS ISSUED DIRECT – DATE: 04/11/2012
04/11/2012 IFFD INFORMATION FILED – DATE: 04/11/2012
04/10/2012 FREE INVESTIGATOR
04/10/2012 FREE COPY OF SECOND SUPPLEMENTAL DESIGNATION OF ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEYS AND
04/02/2012 FREE ORIGINAL SUPPLEMENTAL DESIGNATION OF INVESTIGATOR
03/30/2012 FREE ORIGINAL STATE OF FLORIDA OFFICE OF THE GOVERNOR EXECUTIVE ORDER NUMBER 12-72
03/29/2012 FREE COPY SUPPLEMENTAL DESIGNATION OF INVESTIGATOR
03/23/2012 FREE DESIGNATION OF ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEYS AND INVESTIGATOR PURSUANT TO
03/23/2012 FREE EXECUTIVE ORDER OF THE GOVERNOR 12-72
03/23/2012 FREE DATED 3/22/12
03/23/2012 FREE COVER LETTER FROM OFFICE OF STATE ATTORNEY FOURTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT OF FLORIDA
http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CriminalDocket/case_lookup.jsp?CaseYear=&CourtType=__&CaseSeq=&LastName=zimmerman&FirstName=&recaptcha_challenge_field=03AHJ_Vuu46yvCUFS-tvnOYYu-VV3ClN_tjU0xCA7Cu_OcLmI2sbEUwD7TtqaJ49ZRV3Gs4_fDJ0la8Fs9L4lzhOEmZsEb4CX0VGNmRhXdx-4Z9rjhFTScibxAXkTOhyj6TXU80lMiOkQCLSMkkmEsTEAZcKgt9jy8Mg&recaptcha_response_field=tsomete
911 call with screaming
Is it possible that there could be “one” eye witness named Jeremy who may have watched the fight?
During the call when you can hear screaming for help, there’s a male voice who is downstairs while the woman is on the phone. It’s possible he was watching the fight during the 911 call. After the shot, you hear what sounds like a patio sliding opening then the woman upstairs tells him to get away from the window and come upstairs.
Thanks Spidey,
Do you have those links on your site too?
True, everyone handles trauma differently but to think 30 minutes earlier he was hysterically screaming for his life and now he’s calm and collected.
When I listened to his 911 call last night, He sounds mentally impaired or maybe something is really wrong with him. Borderline Autistic or something?
ahhh sweet JB, i haven’t yet been able to listen to the 911 recording, gonna do that now… and yes, you speak the truth, it is very hard to see someone being able to calm themselves down enough after the ruckus… so let me take a listen i will be right back, but there are folks that are like that, crazy to consider but very true… so calm it is eerie…
and soon i will put all the documents / videos / etc i find on the case on my site, just haven’t been online long enough in one time frame to do it yet… also still working on a JVDS post also… so i gotta get blogging again after that death scare… oh wait… according to our lovely stalker… my drug induced sickness… hehe lolol what a lying weirdo he/she is… lolol ok i will stop, lolol
bbs after listening to that i will look out for those back ground noises too…
I’m so sorry Spidey that by you commenting on my site that they’ve focused on you.
Its so unfair. Stay strong Spidey and I’m so happy you’re recovering so well.
((hugs))
Ok, I’m lost. Can someone tell me where to find Zimmerman’s statement that is being quoted by that “legal blog”? I find it nowhere.
I do see the EMSID report and needed to research what is a normal breath rate for a male adult. See Figure 3 for reference: http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/resnotes/notes/94-11.htm The report is easy to find at the end of the discovery pdf. It is true that he was sitting in the back of the police care handcuffed. It is true that the breath quantity is within normal range for an adult male but not under these conditions. Sitting norm is about 9 (litres per minute) not 12-20. This breath rate is norm for a man that is standing (12) or walking maybe 2 miles per hour (20), assuming his norm is the average norm. This study showed that subjects inhaled 5.4 percent more air per minute while riding in a car than while sitting quietly in the laboratory. While driving a car, subjects inhaled 15.4 percent more air per minute than while sitting in the laboratory and 9.6 percent more than while riding in a car.
Next, pms x 4 with paresthesia which is an abnormal sensation like numbness, tingling, burning sensation. His Glasgow Coma Scale, GCS is 16, the highest score for consciousness. He was alert and responsive. He noted wounds on back of head, face, nose and I didn’t realize he also had a scrape on his forehead. What is obviously missing is what I would expect to be the first assessment, pulse and blood pressure. Why is that not there? With out it, I think the law blogger is not being fair and objective but even more so when he overlooks the paresthesia. The report states vitals are within normal limits which means he may have had a very fast pulse or high BP but still considered within normal limits.
Finally, everyone reacts to trauma differently. We should all be very aware of that after the Anthony case. When I experience trauma, it is a delayed response. I first have to process. I’ve also noticed after much monitoring my blood pressure and pulse under all circumstances, that my bp is lower with more aggressive activity. It is highest when I’m sitting still, thinking about something bothering me. Normal pulse at rest is 60-100 but if mine were 60 I’d think I’m near unconscious. We each have our own norm and “normal limits” implies a low and high range that is acceptable. To be fair an objective, I think we can’t come to the same conclusion as the blog author.
It’s hard to listen to.
I thought that I heard No No and then no more. after the shot.
JB,
Do you now how old the boy could be that his Mom said get away from the window to.
It does sound like a lot of noise.
Plus, If that is George, screaming he is mighty calm after he thinks he was loosing his life and then
killing someone.
There does seem to be a lot of background noise in the back.
So many 911 calls were coming in also.
Zuben,
I know after having worked triage for over 10 years that a normal BP or Respiration varies from person to person, under different circumstances. A MD. would want to compare the vital signs against previous visits if the patient’s BP, Respiration or SAT were abnormal according to medical guidelines or in comparison to other visits in order to say if GZ was usually calm or not.
I think an EMT would be the best source to say… if this was normal vital signs for a person who’s just feared for his life and ultimately killed someone. I wouldn’t be surprised if the EMT is called into as a witness.
I know I would be hysterical if I killed someone.and would probably have to be hospitalized over night for observation and sent home with a Rx to help with my anxiety. But that’s just me.
I think Zim didn’t want to go to the hospital because chances are he would have been blood tested. JMO. Which was a big mistake on the part of Sanford PD.
I
http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/05/19/why/
Zuben, this is the site where I found this report. I don’t think this report came from Zim. It came from the EMT report.
I hope that helps.
Thanks, JB. You might be right. I’m getting the impression about 80% of the population smokes weed but would a drug test be routine if he went in for a broken nose? I think it is just as possible that the reason he didn’t want to go to the hospital is no insurance. Many employers with small companies don’t offer it or it would cost up to 40% or more of the weekly paycheck to get it.
I read the article you linked but he is quoting Zimmerman’s statement without linking the actual document and I haven’t seen it so won’t trust his word. The EMT report is there but I don’t trust his objectivity for the reasons stated in my last post. If they call the EMT as a witness, I don’t believe it could be to show that he wasn’t upset enough to have just shot a man in self defense, as opposed to anything else. He wouldn’t be qualified for that, I don’t believe.
This is the part of the article I was referring to where he refers to Zimmerman’s statement.
Where did he get the statement to know that Zimmerman used the present tense? Where did he get the girlfriend’s statement? Is it abnormal for everyone to use the present tense a minute or two after the event happened? I’ve heard people taking that way. But I think it is more likely that TM said, “Why you following me?”, if not even more abbreviated. Which tense is that question implying? We can’t know.
Have a great night. I’m off to rest my computer eyes.
Zuben,
Here’s an aricle that might interest you. He talks about the blood splatter.
http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/05/21/dna-and-gsr-update-on-george-zimmerman-case/
It might be? It might be routine when a person is under arrest. One of the nurses may have asked one of the LEOs if they wanted any blood work? And more than likely they would have said “what the heck” sure.
When a cop accidentally kills anyone while on duty, they have to submit to a drug/alchohol test so the dept can cover their butts in case of a lawsuit.
I’m thinking GZ is smart guy when it comes to law. Isn’t he taking courses in criminal law?
JB, have you read the dna reports yourself? The author of that blog is again, clearly showing his bias in the very first section of this article. He points out that Trayvon’s shirt has GZ’s blood on it but ignores that the underside of the left sleeve has GZ’s dna too. In the next section he makes a bid deal of their being no dna on Trayvon’s hoodie sleeve, proving, in his opinion that he wasn’t beating GZ. This is the most blantant biased statement I’ve ever read. He ignores proof, according to his own definition of what constitutes proof, that TM was beating GZ. Or, did I read the dna report wrong. Please read and see what you think. It’s at the end of the discovery pdf.
JB, I wanted to add that there is something about this guy, after reading about him and his other blog, that I really like. I hope I’m misunderstanding him and am wrong about his bias in this case. It may be that he’s seen so much corruption within LE, that he is jumping to the conclusion that they didn’t arrest Zimmerman originally, because they saw him as one of their own. Not sure. I can tell he values our constitution and justice, while being commited to exposing corruption.
just dropping in for a sec. My laptop is messed up. Gonna have to get a new on lol SOOON hate this!!!!!!
HELLOOOOOO BLAM!!!!! MISSING YA MY FRIEND! HUGS ALL! BEEN AT MY PARENTS SO HOPPED ON THEIR COMPUTER FOR A SEC. hAVE A WONDERFUL DAY! hUGS MIMI
Hi Mimi. Are you going through pc withdrawal? I know I would be. I both work and play on my computer.
I need to clarify my above comment, got in too much of a hurry and typed my common sense conclusion rather than the actual words. I said there was DNA belonging to GZ on TM left shirt sleeve cuff but I meant to say there was mixed dna that they couldn’t identify, to rule out GZ as the secondary contributor. Forgive my slip. The other mixed DNA that they could identify the secondary belonged to GZ so it stands to reason that this could easily be his too. They can’t rule it out or in. “No determination can be made regarding the possible contribution of George Michael Zimmerman (JR-2) to the mixed DNA obtained from ME-8 left cuff/lower sleeve.”
Hi Arkansasmimi! I knooooow…your computer went out! Bummer. Hang in there kiddo. You’ll find a new one. Sometimes you can pick up a decent laptop at a pawn shop. My son’s friend just bought one.. not bad at all. So look around girl! I miss you already.
Is anybody else watching the American Idol finally? Wow! I’m really enjoying it. I voted for Jessica but I think Phillips will win it.
Zub,
I’m working on my response to you. I’m looking over the Lab report myself starting on page 104 of the doc dump. I’ll be back later after I read up..but I did notice “No determination can be made regarding the possible contribution of George Michael Zimmerman (JR-2) to the mixed DNA obtained from ME-8 left cuff/lower sleeve.”
Off the top of my head, I would think since GZ & TM were in a wrestling match, it seems to reason that the DNA would be combined. Do you think?
Oh and I’m happy you had a bit of change of heart about Leatherman. I think he’s a good guy.
I read in February 2012 one of clients, Danold Stenson was exonerated. He was on death row, found guilty of 2 counts of 1st deg murder.
Okay, I’ll bbl
Peace Everybody!
Hey Zubin, No problem,
Thats correct, just more mixed DNA. It’s hard to believe that these two men even had a fight. I’m trying to keep track of the Item numbers and descriptions. I’m posting this cheat sheet for reference.
For our Reference
Regarding the gun.. DNA on the gun grip matches GZ but No DNA found on the trigger. From the slide, the reports states no determination can be made.
Pg 106 – What’s odd to me is this: Fingernail scrapings, No DNA results foreign to TM were found. Hmm… how is TM rolling on the ground struggling with GZ and not have any foreign DNA under his nails? Zim’s face looks scratched.
As for the distance between the gun and TM body, I wish it were more conclusive instead of 1/2 centimeter to 1 meter. I believe thats what I read from Leatherman’s. I hope the forensic team can do better than that.
It can’t be a meter because that would mean GZ was standing over him, pointing the gun downward. The report describes the gunshot as going straight thru, from front to back.
I’ve been pondering .. I’m trying to imagine how someone lying on his back being punched in the face, is able to grab his gun out of his holster. unless TM is on top holding GZ down with his knees on top of the shoulders. If GZ tries to grab his gun, I would think TM would have grabbed the slide part to point it away from himself. I would expect bruising on GZ’s wrist and TM’s. Now that I read the lab report, I’m even more confused.
I’m not positive but in your cheat sheet, I think ME stands for Medical examiner because that is where the evidence came from before the lab got it. I think DMS stands for direct material subject or smething like that because those are the things that belong to GZ.
I don’t think it odd at all that TM has none of GZ’s DNA under his nails if he had his fitsts clenched hitting him. It is more likely that someone defending themself in this type of fight might have the other person’s dna under the nails. The only way a fist would get fingernail dna is if the thumb scraped while hitting. If he had a ring on it woud not only explain the cut on GZ’s jaw easily, but also the scape on TM’s 4th finger but I see no mention of a ring. Did he have one? But, Skin gets broken with hard hits, regardless of whether or not one wears a ring, right?
I’m shocked the bullet didn’t exit, being that close. Picture TM on top of him, legs straddled across GZ’s hips/legs. The right hand would be free to reach the waist where the holster was. Or if he was strattled higher up with legs across the arm he might still be able to reach it as TM reached forward with each blow or thrust. He then may have managed to thrust his upper body and head upward, throwing TM back somewhat, freeing his arm and the gun. Just trying to imagine the possible ways it could have played out. If we read GZ’s statement or saw the reenactment he did with LE, we’d probably have a clearer picture.
There is sufficient evidence to support self defense. The only argument may be whether GZ had sufficient cause to fear for his life but who is to say what GZ considered as life threatening. I’d say having my head hit on concrete is enough. Yes, a gun is more threatening that blows with the fist but…..The law allows for self defense with a gun in Florida.
Good Morning,
JB,
It’s hard for me to imagine a fight also.
I’ll say this much for sure, If Zimerman thought this kid was so suspicious,
he had called 911, knew they were on the way. WHY get out of his truck?
He had done his civic duty in calling 911, hadn’t he?
He could have just stayed on the phone withh 911 until the police arrived.
YEPPPPEEEEEE! i AM WHOLE AGAIN LMAO! My lil brother calls me this morning and asks me to go to the Best Buy here and pick up something for him… That rascal bought me a BRAND NEW LAPTOP!!!! SO SHOCKED AND HUMBLED IS ONLY WORDS I COULD THINK OF OTHER THAN THANK YOU AND I LOVE YOU!. He said well you are my FAV sister (lol ONLY SISTER) He said he wanted to make sure I was able to communicate with people lol. This was such a wonderful and thoughtful thing to do! Love you Bro and Sis in law!!!! Whew just caught up on comments, now off to doc!!!! HI and Hugs!
whew this thing is touchy
Hello everybody!
Just checking it..
I guess now after the latest news .. George Zimmerman knew several Sanford Police officers before the shooting.
http://news.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-knew-several-sanford-police-officers-shooting-174040993–abc-news-topstories.html
The OS reports O’Mara wants more time to review records before it’s released to the public.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-24/news/os-george-zimmerman-mark-omara-evidence-20120524_1_law-enforcement-statements-evidence
???? Perhaps. I think it’s interesting that the SPD denied having known GZ when he was so vocal at a town hall meeting a year ago. You’d think they would remember him. This could suggest a cover up to the TM supporters.
=========================================
AKM! I’m so happy for you. You’re lucky to have such a sweet brother.
Hi Loly,
I saw your comment at Leatherman’s. Good one! I like reading there. It’s nice to learn about this case and all of the legalities. That’s the only site I’ve visited (besides mine) lol that I like.
I hate to be the first one on my site to say it but I’ve listened to the GZ’s 911 call over and over again from several different You Tube videos.
If you crank up the volume and put on earphones, you can hear GZ say..”effing coons”
He says it. I almost feel bad for him because I have feeling the Feds will be able to prove this was a hate crime. JMHO
Zuben, you made me laugh when I read what you said about my cheat sheet. I’m such a dutz!
I see what you mean but it helps me when I read the reports because that’s the way they refer to the item. So I’m going to leave it up just for me. lol
Thanks JB YESSS I am! I told him he getting soft in his mid age lol, cant say old, he and his twin, a yr and 8 mo younger than me lol
Zuben,
Thats true, thanks for pointing that out. The fight was more with fist than nails. I don’t recall reading that TM wore a ring either. You said you saw the enactment..Wow! I’m going to try and see if I can find it.
I keep looking for a picture of blood on a sidewalk. Usually in crime scenes, when someone is battered on the sidewalk, you’ll see a picture of blood.
Maybe there was a rock or something in the bushes? Like as part of the landscaping.. Hmm..
I’m not convinced it was self defense. I think your first reaction when attacked is to remove yourself from the attacker.
I don’t think it’s justifiable homicide if you’ve put yourself in harms way. GZ admitted to the 911 operator, “I don’t know if this guy is armed” <– paraphrasing..so he had thought of that.
Under the guidelines of being part of Neighborhood Watch you are trained not to carry a gun. Its not like GZ was just nonchalantly walking along his apt. complex and this guy jumped him. There's an entire story he explained to the 911 dispatcher that states his intention.
I think this will be the deal breaker. JMO
Listen closely..you’ll hear it.
Another thing.. .
I compared his voice (which sounds muffled to me) to the bond hearing when he addressses the court. For some reason GZ’s voice sounds different from the 911 call. In the 911 call he sounds impaired. Maybe from the sleep medication he was taking. I read from the EMT report he was taking Librax and (sp) Temazepam.
What is Librax?
Librax is a capsule containing a combination of chlordiazepoxide and clidinium. Chlordiazepoxide is in a group of drugs called benzodiazepines. Chlordiazepoxide affects chemicals in the brain that may become unbalanced and cause anxiety.
Clidinium reduces stomach acid and decreases intestinal spasms.
Librax is used to treat stomach ulcers, irritable bowel syndrome, and intestinal infections.
Librax may also be used for other purposes not listed.
*Do not use Librax if you are allergic to chlordiazepoxide or clidinium, or to other benzodiazepines, such as alprazolam (Xanax), clorazepate (Tranxene), diazepam (Valium), lorazepam (Ativan), or oxazepam (Serax). Librax can cause birth defects in an unborn baby. Do not use this medicine if you are pregnant.
Since Librax warns if you’re allergic to benzodiazepines you should take it so that must mean the drug in that family.
What is Tamazepam?
Restoril™ (temazepam) is indicated for the short-term treatment of insomnia (generally 7 to 10 days).
For patients with short-term insomnia, instructions in the prescription should indicate that Restoril™ (temazepam) should be used for short periods of time (7 to 10 days).
The clinical trials performed in support of efficacy were 2 weeks in duration with the final formal assessment of sleep latency performed at the end of treatment.
So here we have GZ taking 2 forms of medication, both Bennies.
I’m interested in what kind of doctor would give out Restoril for longer than 10 days. Unless..it was newly prescribed? No mention of when it prescribed?? Sooo IDK
You misunderstood me, JB. I like your cheat sheet. I just thought I’d share what I thought the initials meant. Also, I didn’t say I saw the reenactment. I just meant that it was mentioned that he walked LE through what happened on scene.
JB, this is a very chopped up version of the 911 call. I wouldn’t trust it at all. It has quite a bit of the 911 operator cut out, more than one place.
I’m not so sure he is running though. Yes, we hear wind but the wind could have been blowing. He doesn’t sound winded at all. Where in the video are you talking about. I can’t hear what you say you hear at all.
Spidergirls said..snipped;
I’m sorry I missed your comment. I agree. We all react differently under different circumstances. I think I could give GZ the benefit of doubt if he hadn’t come on so arrogantly. IMO, he’s arrogant.
And now knowing he did ride alongs with LE and then went to a town hall meeting to belittle them as if he were superior, I think I could excuse his calmness.
I sense anger from him. I wonder what his vital signs would have read while he on the phone with 911 reporting TM. I bet his BP was over-the-top then. So it seems now, that the only thing that calmed him was his satisfaction that he got his man. Dead or Alive. When you read his vital signs in the report, he’s relaxed and no longer angry. IMO, His attitude is like he dusted his hands off and walked away.
I’m sorry Zuben. I thought I was behind as usual. My bad. lol
I know Zuben that its chopped. I picked this video because it has some of the 911 calls as well but anyway, I listened to several others and I could hear it all of them.
If you find one you can’t, please post it.
I just listened to again.
@ 2:22 while he’s running, you’ll hear him say it.
JB,
I can hear it. Besides I guess he brother heard it because he says it like effing GOONS!!
Now Really!
Before the 911 Dispather asked are you following him, we don’t need you to do that, Zimmerman
says OK, but He sounds the same as he did when he admitted he was following.
He also say’s Oh, Crap, I don’t want to give my address, I don’t know where this KID is.
So, he didn’t think he was close to his age. That’s11 years difference.
Was the flashlight that was on the ground the polices?
Why in the world when he’s talking to the dispatcher would he would he say these always get away and then use the slang term that he did?
I still can’t see where Zimmerman is any kind of danger. Trayvon is, but doesn’t even have a clue
how much danger he’s going to face.
Another thing, he says he’s checking me out??? Like that’s bad thing?
Says Trayvons running away, also says he’s coming towards me??
He says he’s on something? What made him think that? Was he that close to
begin with?
Yep Loly,
I’m glad you could hear too. If his brother said it was “goons” then you know GZ definitely said something close to it.
I agree with you too about GZ’s guessing his age. I’m pretty sure I heard him describe TM to 911 as being in his late teens too. And then, like you said, he refers to him as a kid.
What I’d also like to know, why does he think TM will hear his address UNLESS he knew TM was within hearing distance.
And then.. GZ lies to the family and says this in court:
This guy can’t keep his story straight.
Exactly..he says he’s running away like it was a bad thing. lol.. Sounds to me that GZ wanted him pretty bad.
I think Zimmerman was talking to the 911 operator in what he thought was “police talk” ..saying things like “these a-holes always get away”.. He was trying to be their buddy.
Loly, I think TM was very close to him when..he says..”I think he’s checking me out” It seems like TM is passing him on the sidewalk. If you notice his voice gets shaky too.
It’s crazy..
Lolypop, brining this over from other TM/GZ article.
i have been reading (catching up) and I saw your comment below, and remb it when reading the docs released. In ref to your comment below, which was DAYS ago, and you may know by now, if not just wanted to share with ya. The pix that were released, I think by ABC? that were taken I think it was 3 min after the shooting, in the release, On March 24, 2012 Michael Wagner states he took pix with his IPhone because he didnt have a digital issue camera with him. So this is who took the pix, 1 answer down Million to go. So WAS NOT that John guy. Hoping your doing mighty fine
*******
May 19 12:25 a.m.
Looks like his head would have been a bloody mess the way he described it.
What is the black and white picture of him looks like a car.
Do you know who took these.
I’ve heard long ago, a firiend walked past them, he said George was on the bottom
yelling for help. This is the guy that didn’t want to be seen on camera.
He’s the one that supposedly took a picture 3 minutes after George shot Trayvon.
His name is John.
Tryvon was definately on drugs. Toxicology reports indicates that. But there’s no report GZ was using any kind of drugs even tho to me he does sound a bit muffled or tired…But what does that mean..
Sounds to me that both were checking each other out and Trayvon may have gotten a little
spooked by GZ and jumped him…..
If TM lived there, once again he would’ve known GZ was watch captain……
Iff he was just on a visit, well, im sure there were other visitors coming and going
within the complex so there’s somethng else…
Was it a drug deal gone bad? I wonder
Welll, GZ was right when he said to the dispatcher that he thought he was on drugs or something……Meaning TM….
So, it’ll come down to both standing their ground, and GZ using self defense…imoo
Hmmm, all I can hear at 2:22 is wind, then the dispatcher speaks next. If that wind sound is him whispering I don’t here oo, I hear O, like bold, cold, stole, etc. Well, if he did utter a racial slur, I’m sure their experts will be able to filter out the noise coming from the wind to expose it. I remember back in March, NBC was claiming he said this. Remember them? They’re the same media outlet that were forced to make a public apology for editing the tape, the version you have above, making it look like he was offering the fact that he was a black kid. Yes, he may have lied about what age he thought he was, or at some point he while struggling with him he thought, OMG, this isn’t a kid. If the witness’ story is true, TM had overpowered him. If the latter is the case, he wasn’t lying.
Back to the point of this comment, it was NBC pushing this story and CNN hired experts to enhance the audio, cut out the noise and debunk this claim. I found the enhansed version. Listening to the state of the art enhancement, reducing the broadband noise interfering, I clearly hear a long O sound, not OO. Here is CNN’s video, showing the results of their 2 experts and techniques so you can hear for yourself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOt1wEDy0SI I agree with them that it sounds more like Fing Cold, which it was that night. Look at wunderground for that night. The temp in rain would be fing cold. It was lightly raining and 63°. http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KSFB/2012/2/26/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA This may be a matter of forensics if they try to get him for a hate crime. If CNN can get these experts, the defense can to. Remember, CNN had been running with the hate crime version at first too but they decided it was worth their investment, to hire some experts. The decision may have been influenced by the heat NBC and others were taking at the time for biased reporting.
As for the toxicology report I haven’t seen but apparently media has, if THC is the only thing they found they will have a hard time proving he was tripping and more aggressive than he would have been otherwise. Every single person I’ve observed partaking of MJ for recreational purposes is just the opposite, extremely laid back, sometimes to the point of laziness, unless they’ve built up a resistance. Those with certain differences in their central nervous system, those who self medicate, are better able to focus, even slowing down their hyperactive tendencies more toward what would be considered normal. It will help them to focus their thoughts better where others might loose a thought, only to have it return and resume minutes later. JMO and observations.
JB, do you remember how arrogant everyone said Casey was, bashing her because she dared ever to smile, expecting her to be crying every minute because her beloved daughter was gone, if she was innocent? Yes, Zimmerman new LE and was passionate about lowering the crime rate. He may have had more confidence that some, which would come across as arrogant, potentially. People may think he was racially profiling with the statement that they always get a way. But, think about this. Didn’t they have a few suspects that were seen, connected to the robberies in his neighborhood? If you had 6 crimes in your neck of the woods and 4 times the robbers were seen, described as teenage white girls with nose and lip piercings, wouldn’t anyone you saw wandering through your gated community you didn’t recognize, fitting this description be suspect in your mind? Now, GZ made it his business to know who belonged in that neighborhood, with the support of LE and his community. He reportedly bought the gun and permit to conceal because of a threatening dog so it is common sense that he would always carry it when leaving the house. If you brought your handy Swiss Army knife so you’d have the screwdriver with you, wouldn’t you reach for that knife if your safety was threatened? Well…I don’t know if I would or not. I might try to reason with him, but that’s me and I’m not GZ. I’m not trying to change your mind, just share my point of view. As the 911 call reached the point where TM went out of sight, I hear fear in GZ’s voice.
What kind of moron would say “f’ing coons” while on the phone with police dispatch??????
Zuben….I hear the same thing you do.
NBC knows full well the power of suggestion. Once an idea is planted, it’s hard to let go of. But take notice…..even Sharpton and Jackson have backed WAY off of the “racial” element of this case.
hey omar hope all is good
and yes the power of suggestion is def huge for some, it is for me very hard to hear it, and hard for me to say exactly what he is saying… but maybe GZ didn’t think things would go the way they did hence why he spoke the way he did to them, he never imagined things would end up like this and the call would be made into a public forum with a teenager’s death in his hands… i would think most folks don’t see that far ahead when calling 911, that maybe one day the world would be listening to it… not sure if i am explaining myself well sorry if not…
and yes, maybe a little zub, i do hear fear
i also hear him knocking on a door three times towards the end of that convo with the dispatcher… wonder what that was?? you all hear that? wonder who’s house that was or what door he was knocking on… or am i hearing things??
happy day to you guys
Spidey, is it possible what you are hearing are the k, hard c and d sounds, which, when whispering into a microphone, might sound like thumps or knocks? If that is what you are referring to, consider that the final n sound would not make that hard d, knocking sound, caused by the tongue hitting the roof of the mouth. N also touches the palate but lays there rather than hitting it quickly then snapping back off.
hey zub, not at this point in the recording… this was right at the end when the dispatcher says we don’t need you to do that… referring to GZ chasing/following TM, listen closely as GZ talks of the address and cross street and such, you will hear three distinct knocks on a door or something… to me it is a door being knocked on and you can almost hear a convo that GZ is having with someone else at the end… here is the recording you tell me what you hear cuz i could be wrong but somehow i really think he was knocking on a door… at least that is what i hear…curious as to what you hear and what others hear also…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFRP545ZhP8 …..
happy day to you zub
great to see you…
Hello Everyone! Good comments!
GasCanGeorge;
I have the same trepidations regarding other guests who happen to visit The Retreat Apts. Not everyone’s friends or relatives will look like an outstanding upright citizens. Does that mean if I live at The Retreat I best not invite my homeless uncle for dinner @ 7pm or invite him to my home for Christmas dinner in fear of him being harassed by the Neighborhood Watch guy?
Yes, I read the toxicology report too. Trayvon was definitely a user of marijuana and he may have been high that night?? We’ll never really know for sure. The same could be said about GZ..Although I doubt very seriously if he used marijuana.
From the looks of the type of meds he used, he might have been high on pharmaceuticals. But we’ll never really know what was in his system since we know he wasn’t drug or alcohol tested on the night he shot TM.
Furthermore, benzodiazepines and opiates are not detectable in your system after 48hrs. IIRC, he went to his private physician the next day but there’s no mention of blood work done and I doubt his doctor thought one was necessary. So as for GZ..We’ll never know what other medications he used or if he abused any of the drugs he was prescribed the night of the shooting.
And..just between me and you..speculating.. I thought about a drug deal gone bad too.
WAVING TO YELLOW DOG!! IF HE’S READING… MANY PRAYERS AND WELL WISHES GOING TO YOU MY FRIEND!!
STAY STRONG YELLOW DOG.
I just listened to the tape you provided. Although the reporter believes he hears a “d” sound, I still hear a definite “s” sound so I have to consider the context of language and wonder why would Zim say “effing colds”? But I agree it’s debatable. Thanks for bring another perspective to discussion. Perfect.
And thanks for reminding me of the early tales the media promoted. But as I learned in the Anthony case, there’s usually a little bit of truth that the media bases their propaganda. I think in this case, this is one of them. GZ says something under his breath.
And good point regarding marijuana too. Considering all of the drugs in society that TM could have been using such as crack cocaine, heroin, pain pills, Xanax, LSD and the rest, I find him using marijuana insignificant because “MJ” as you pointed out slows down hyperactive tendencies. So I’d say up until GZ harassed him, TM was mellow.
Zuben, I totally understand the last part of your comment too regarding profiling.
“IT IS WHAT IT IS”
If he reported 4 suspicious black guys in the last 6 months prior to calling 911 on TM, so be it. I’m thinking about the recent home invasion that I read in the doc dump. Wasn’t the suspect black? So I get it. I’m not totally convinced GZ was racial profiling.
But I do believe he has a superiority complex. Another little detail that caught my attention was when the 911 dispatcher referred to his condo (or whatever he wants to call it ).. The dispatcher asked him the address of his “apartment” and he right off the bat corrected him and called his place a “home”.
So that tells me he’s annoyed that his condo is sometimes referred to as an apartment.
He was indignant.
Who cares.. just give the dispatcher the number. That’s another sign of arrogance to me.
And I’m almost convinced that it was HIS IDEA to get on the stand at the bond hearing.
I believe that’s what I heard O’Mara say. That’s ballzy, IMO too.
I think GZ is just another one of those guys who was bullied in school, maybe all of his life and he wanted to be a cop to enforce his will. He is definitely not cop material. IMO.
Omar! I love your new avatar! That is sooo cool. And I think its suits you to a tee.
Hello,
Zimmerman’s brother said that he said effing goons.
He said they use that a lot.
As far as why he said it, if I called 911, I wouldn’t say these assholes always get away.
All of the 911 calls that came in the FBI should know what they’re dealing with.
They’ll even know if Zimmerman was still looking for him, when the 911 dispatcher
told him we don’t need you to follow him.
When he say’s shruck instead of truck and the other things he’s saying he may
have had some alcohol, that’s why he sounds that way and doestn’t want to stay for the cops to come to him. He wants them to call so he can tell where he moved to.
This is MO!
Spidey,
But it does sound like he’s knocking on a door.
I heard the knocking too. I’m not sure what it is??? LOL, at first I thought he was packing cigarettes.
I’m posting the video below because its the best video explaining the interesting parts of the hearing where the prosecutor hints to what evidence they may use in the case. It’s 51 minutes long and not because I agree with the title.
I’m going to use it to base many of my opinions because it’s all that I have right now. If IIRC, the prosecutor mentions something about the knocking?? Hmm.. not sure though.
Just a question, when Trayvon asked why are you following me and his answer was what are you doing here?
I’m putting myself in Trayvon’s and Zimmerman’s place. There is no doubt, Zimmerman called 911
and said he saw someone susupicious and was following him, so Trayvon had every reason to want to know WHY this guy was following him. With the answer what are you doing here???
Trayvon had nothing else to do but ask him and he had every right and that was Zimmerman’s answer/ question, What are you doing here???
That was not an answer, that was a provoking!
A simple answer, as been said would have been sufficient.
To think that someone is in danger that comes in to visit and just because they look different/suspicious, the watchman had never seen him/her before so kills them
there is a big problem just like JB said.
Couldn’t this happen to any of us or someone we know?
heya Lolypop and GCG, and of course anyone who is here and lurking about
hope you all have a super memorial weekend!!
lolypop, i think that is exactly the problem for me too… i mean just think about it, you know how lots of teenagers today like to act all gangster like, and talk like they are tough… i hate to see and hear it but we parents know it happens… just check out your teens facebook page you will see what i mean… so if you think about it, it could have been anyone of our children this happened too… i mean i get stand your ground laws and all, believe me i understand, and i am totally for people having the right to bear arms, i am for those points… but in this case, i am sorry, getting your butt kicked by someone doesn’t allow you to kill them…
would you want some neighborhood watchman doing this to your child?
and i cry BULLOCKS to this teenager being high on mary jane causing him to become more aggressive, that is just ludicrous!!! maybe aggressively looking to fulfill his munchies… it is just crazy to me to even fathom that at all…
just because a person has a tendency to be a fighter or likes to smoke marijuana or even yells a lot, it doesn’t mean they deserved a bullet, because bottom line is… this is a case of a grown man armed with a 9mm pursuing a unarmed teenager…
on another note, trust me, if you followed me and looked at me while i walked in the rain and darkness, followed me thru the streets, looked at me while talking with someone on the phone… i am sure that i would be pretty upset, scared, worried and very high strung if that were me… and sorry but if folks are going to bring in the fact of the past events to summarize this boy Trayvon Martin, then the same should go for George Zimmerman. JB, I agree, IMHO i feel that this man was a police wanna be, who possibly had slight tendencies to judge folks by their appearances and have a higher then normal aggressive nature about him… even his past shows signs of being more on the aggressive hostile side of things… so it is only fair to see both sides of these folks personalities and how they played a role in all this.
jb i am not sure what that knocking is… but i really really hear 3 knocks too it sounds like a hand upon a wooden door… wonder if anyone besides us have heard this and have any ideas… hmmm so many questions….
the only thing i walk away from this knowing for sure is, as i stated above… this is a case of a grown man armed with a 9 mm pursuing an unarmed teenager…. and it could have been any one of our children… it is all very sad indeed
Spidey,
I Haven’t heard from you in a long time.
I see you on here, but really didn’t know how you felt about this.
Are you still in the hospital? I hope youre much better! : )
Bottom line, I so agree with you.The gun! Zimmerman had the gun with him and
if he thought this kid was a threat to him, stay in the truck and wait for the police.
They were on their way and got there right after Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon.
I don’t care who has guns either, it’s not about having a gun. It’s about using it when it made no sense.
Say your/our kids are fighting and the other one pulls out a gun and kills
him shooting him right in the heart?
I don’t care who it is and why they’re fighting, I want to know how he can kill my
kid and never answer for it.
Since Zimmerman got out of his truck and pursued Trayvon, even when Trayvon could do no more but just ask why are you following me, then Zimmerman gives him this hostile question back, Trayvon knew he was in trouble and I believe he begged No, NO!!
And seconds later Trayvon was dead for no reason.
It’s just not right, IMHO!!
Hi all. Loly, what do you base the idea TM did no more than ask why he was following him? I think there is evidence and witness testimony he did much more than that, unless Zimmerman slipped and fell, hitting both his nose and the back of his head. I have to disagree that it is never appropriate to use a gun, if available, when the other person is using concrete and fists as a weapon. I can’t see me using a gun but it is a legal right and many would. I know he was young and it is horrible to see a life end so soon. But I was a full grown woman at 17 and many young men are full grown or at least nearly so by then too. They can do the same violence as men many years their senior, which is why many are tried as adults at as young as early teens. I also have to disagree that GZ was showing arrogance by telling the dispatcher that his address was a home, not an apartment. I didn’t hear it in his voice and those multi-story condos are purchased, not rented as apartments. I would have said the same so they didn’t accidentally go someplace else. But maybe I’m just weird. When this story was first being reported I bought the media verson but I’m just not getting the same facts and impression now that I’m reading the actual documents that may be entered into evidence.
I found out TM is left handed, through the 7-11 store video: http://www.blackyouthproject.com/2012/05/video-of-trayvon-buying-skittles-and-iced-tea-surfaces/ It looks like his watch is below the jacket cuff and might be what cut GZ’s jaw, if not the fist. The store is to the W of the neighborhood. He would have come in the front entrance or cut across on the North, as GZ was exiting, planning to go to Target to the N, most likely cutting up to the N exit via Twin Trees. He directed the dispatcher to send them past the clubhouse that is on the right, SW corner of that first intersection inside the gate, then go left, which would be around the curve on Twin Trees street. I can’t see where the mailboxes are he refers to but that would help to be sure. I think the cut through he spoke of is on the next curve of Twin Trees, E side of the street, sidewalk cutting through to the Eastern section of Retreat View Circle but also branching or T-ing off at the sidewalk between the backs of the homes where he was shot. Now, when TM ran out of his sight, it was either here, turning the corner to go between houses or else South a little bit, between two buildings. Either place TM could have caught him by surprise as GZ came around the corner looking for him, but it is most likely between buildings. Now, if he says TM confronted him at his truck then he would need to explain how he got behind the buildings, off the roadside. I highly doubt there was only one sentence/question spoken by each because one of the witnesses said there was arguing outside, then cries for help. Please see witness report on page 38.
Yes, I think I got it right, according to this map: http://www.chicagomag.com/whet/trayvon-martin-map.jpg and here is a map of some of the witnesses: http://bcclist.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-witness-map.jpg And here is the google map if you want to look at the whole neighborhood.
Have a great holiday weekend everyone.
ITA with you Zuben!!
Zuben,
Didn’t the girlfriend say she heard Trayvon ask Zimmerman why are you following me and Zimmerman replied after that what are you doing here?
I don’t know who said what after that, I guess no one knows except George Zimmerman.
Left handed right handed? I don’t see what that has to do with it. It looked like he picked up the bag with his left hand and used both hands for getting his money.
I do the same. But I don’t know what this has to do with it.
What was the point in doing it over in slow motion?
And Zuben, I swear I never even thought, much less said that I thought that Zimmerman was arrogant in saying he lived in a house.
That’s part of this that doesn’t matter whether he lived in a house or an apartment.
In fact this is the first that I’ve read anything about that.
I did think when Trayvon asked him why he was following him, that Zimmerman anwer/question
was arrogant and also provoking the thought in Trayvon’s mind, that Zimmerman thought he / Trayvon shouldn’t be there.
I’ve never said people shouldn’t have a gun. It’s been said from the beginning that he had a legal right to carry one. I don’t care that he had a gun..
Like you said, I don’t know anything but what I’ve heard and not from any news chanel.
I guess that’s why I haven’t heard or at least this is all new to me about Trayvon being left handed
and also the part about Zimmerman living in a house. I just get that why any of that matters.
===============================================================
Loly, it was me who mentioned the “apartment/home” response. I think that’s who Zuben was addressing when she said that. And as far as I know, I’m the only one who picked up on it. lol
It was just something else that GZ said that didn’t sound normal to me because all the 911 person wanted to know was “where does GZ live” and remember he really didn’t want to give that information out. Hmmm..
I don’t know why, but this guy is so transparent to me. Maybe because I know someone who’s a lot like him.
IDK..anyway I just wanted to clear that up.
JB
Hello all,
I just have a minute. If you listen to the 51 minute video, it’ll give you an idea of GZ’s version.
According to the prosecutor, GZ says (in one of his 5 statements) TM began circling his truck while he was on the phone with 911. If so…I think that’s when Zim is telling 911, “yes he’s on somethng” blah, blah, blah.
.So there goes my theory that GZ was out of his truck when he called. Maybe not???
This is what I’m picturing…GZ drives thru the entrance ( @ the entrance Zuben described)
he spots TM and pulls over to call 911. TM gradually catches up to where he’s parked.
TM is staring him down . TM is probably wondering why he stopped. TM begins to circle his truck.
Where TM goes from there is unknown. We’ll have to rely on George’s testimony for that.
Like I said, presently we don’t have a statement from Zimmerman so I’ll base my opinion on what the prosecutor said in court.
If anyone has time, it might help to listen to it.
Zuben, I don’t know from where everyone is basing their ideas either.
As we’ve heard numerous times, TM was bashing GZ’s head on the pavement. According to the prosecutor and investigator there is no evidence that supports this claim. Remember I was asking about blood stains on the pavement?
Zuben,
IMO and only my opinion, I think GZ is very arrogant and maybe not right in the head.
I got the feeling when he corrected the 911 dispatcher that he was miffed by the assumption that his residence is an apartment. Unless as you said, there are other units that are different and look like homes but if it’s a condo it’s not a home as most people would think. It’s an apartment.
I really don’t see why GZ thought it was important to clarify that when all the 911 operator wanted was a numbered address.
I have so many questions. Why doesn’t Zim find the mail boxes and just wait. To me, he doesn’t seem to want the operator to be able to pin him down to one location. Why is that? It just doesn’t make sense to me.
Maybe when I read one of his statements, it’ll make sense.
LOL.. One thing about Casey, she stuck to one story, a very short concise story but just ONE story. I’ll give her that.
I totally agree with you Spidey,
You said..
About that knocking.. Now that I’m learning TM was circling GZ’s truck..Do you think its possible that GZ was tapping on the glass window trying to get TM’s attention? Egads!
BTW, check YouTube and there’s a few people who’ve addressed the tapping.
Like you, I have alot of questions too. Filling in the blanks from an audio tape is really hard to do. There’s so many varibles. I’m really looking forward to this trial because it’s so interesting to me…
like a good book.
Hint hint KIDS, Momma wants a Kindle!
Spidey, I forgot to add.. If it’s TM knocking on the window?? Well that’s a game changer. I wonder if GZ says that in one of his statements??? If that’s the case, then GZ could have shot him right there, no questions asked claiming he feared for his life. But 2nd thought I think GZ would have said that to the dispatcher.
Thank you Zuben, have a nice Memorial weekend too.
BTW, That’s an excellent map. It answered the question for us that TM was heading in the right direction towards the apartment where his father was staying.
And it’s a pretty good distance from Zim’s truck too, further than I saw on a different map.
So if its true TM walks pass the truck and continues on the walk thru as GZ described, I can see why GZ was getting even more anxious. Once TM turns right, he’s no longer in sight. That explains why he got out of his truck. IF so… had GZ driven his truck he would have gotten a better view and perhaps witnessed TM going into his father’s apt.
But boy..that was a long way to run, don’t you think?
Zuben,
I believe there were some words exchanged. Witness who lived on Retreat View reported to 911 that she heard two men talking to each other at her window prior to the cries for help and the gunshot.
IIRC, there’s another witness that actually heard those similar words too.
I’m sorry, Loly. I addressed you at the beginning but part of what I was addressing was to JB. The reason I pointed out is he is left handed is it matches the side of GZ’s face that was hit.
Yes, I hear the knocking when listening to the complete call. Not sure what to make of it. If it took place while he was still in the truck, common sense tells me it was TM tapping on his window, not the other way around. The report about what the girlfriend heard came from TM’s family, not from the documents. They didn’t see fit to allow the public access to that witness statement. Maybe because she is a minor?
JB, I don’t think whether he lived in an apartment or condo is important other than to clarify for LE what they are looking for. Where I live there are no apartments that aren’t stacked on top of one another, at least 2 stories with 4 apartments in each building, now that state code says there has to be an escape window from each bedroom. The exception is elderly single story, ground level access, retirement apartments that are hooked together like duplexes. Condos are either homes which are multi-level, sometimes attached on the sides, sometimes not, or apartments, which those are not., which are owned, not rented.
One of the pictures had, what looked to me like what could be a spot of blood on the sidewalk but I’s seen nothing in the docs about it. But, he had fresh blood on his head so that speaks for itself, doesn’t it? If he was hit in the face from a standing position, then hit the pavement, it woudn’t bleed on it unless he kept his head there or that spot hit it while bleeding. I consider a blow to the head life threatening. And yes, I mention the page number above where it is reported a witness heard an argument followed by cries for help, then the gunshot. I don’t think it abnormal or provoking to answer him with the question asking him why he is in that neighborhood. That explains why he was following him. I might add the words, “I wanted to know” (why you are hear), and maybe he did? We haven’t read what the friend heard him say, only the family attorney’s version, right? A neighborhood watch person would ask that question of anyone they didn’t think lived there, especially one that walked instead of drove in. Visitors usually drive in. A pedestrian that is seen as a stranger would raise suspicion. Those are private roads, like large driveways. I was even reminded of that by google map when I entered both the 911 and addy GZ gave to see the distance.
JB, maybe there is something about GZ that reminds you of someone you don’t like or trust but I have to say, GZ sounds to me, slightly timid and not arrogant at all, through tone of voice. Obviously he isn’t too timid to purchase and use a gun or to get out of his truck to look where TM disappeared to. If you saw someone you thought didn’t belong in your yard wouldn’t you want to see where he went if he slipped behind buildings?
If the honda key on the key chain belonged to either of them, it was found near the T in the sidewalk. That means that one of them began walking or running down that sidewalk, the other following. It could be that TM heard the truck door shut, looked behind him, where GZ was now at, then asked him loudly why he was following, being the beginning of the argument the witness heard. The other possibility is that GZ cut through between the 1st 2 buildings and TM confronted him at that point. Regardless, if the 1st words and punches came from TM then he was the aggressor. I don’t see any sign of offensive wounds on GM but see plenty of defensive wound evidence. If the scrape on TM’s left hand is fresh, there is evidence of an offensive wound.
I don’t believe it is shown in the reports where GZ was parked. He said retreat view circle, not Twin Trees. So perhaps he drove up toward the exit beside the clubhouse, say TM walk east then turned that corner to follow instead of exiting. Then he would have parked there, seeing TM run between buildings there, cutting through to the T sidewalk. We can’t know at this point. His 911 call makes it sound to me like he was walking away from GZ’s direction and at some point turned and walked toward him. If someone is tapping or knocking, it is TM, I’m sure. Why would GZ knock?
Thanks JB,
I’ve done that too. : /
They run together and it’s hard to remember who said what.: )
I’m like you it’s like a book, something that you can’t help but be interested in
and keeps your attention.
I don’t get the part where Trayvon is circling the truck, if so why didn’t he,
Zimmerman tell the 911 dispatcher.
Zimmerman has been following this kid slowly and then Trayvon decides to circle his truck,
not only that he get’s out of his truck and is following Trayvon, so when did Trayvon chase him
and Trayvon was on his way to his house, but he’s chasing Zimmerman.
Maybe Trayvon had heard about breakins and thought this guy could be following him for that reason.
Trayvon had every reason to be scared and worried and didn’t put himself in this spot, Zimmerman did. I don’t blieve Trayvon was ever on him. One person has said the guy on top was wearing a white-T-shirt. Do you think that could have been John. The one that took the picture? The one that Zimmerman told to call his wife and tell her he shot someone?
If the only witness that they can really know who was there and what happened is Zimmerman,
who will they listen to? Trayvon is no longer here, so chances of them having witnesses are very slim.
I did hear just now that it was George that had the two flashlights. The report says, Zimmerman was hit with a blunt object. Maybe it was one of Geore’s flashlights.
I have a hard time believing they were wrestling on the grass because George isn’t wet.
No problem Zuben! : )
I did the very same exact thing last week.
I fully understand.
And I fully understand how some have different opinions. That is OK.
I sure don’t want to lose friends over it.
I’n not usually up this late or early which ever it is.
I ususually don’t even know what 6 AM looks like Guess I’m goibg to find out.
Well, I hope all of you have a very nice holiday what ever you’re doing and
you’re safe.
Take care.
G’night or G’Morning! : )
G’Morning or G’Night, lol
It’s early for me but trying to keep on schedule.
One thing for sure, you either like Zim or you don’t. At first I tried to lighten up on Zim, thinking he had a good explanation and he truly cared about what he did but he shows no remorse, not even on the night it happened. See EMT report.
I just can’t get pass his attitude. Zuben, I don’t see him timid at all. IMO, He’s violent with women and he’s not afraid of a fight. That’s not timid.
Remember he stood up at the Town Hall meeting too to complain about the cop he just had to ride along with. He’s pretty vocal.
Another thing..
I don’t know anyone who’s been arrested for hitting a cop. Do you? And his violence towards women, restraining orders..wanting to be a cop and now a judge. Oh wow.. I think he’s a total control freak and a very scary person.
Anyway, I read he’s getting $1,000 day now off his website now so it’s looking good for him in the court of public opinion but not in my court.
IMO, it’s a clear case of misjudgment on the part of the person who pulled the trigger. It was a tragedy for the victim and should be a tragedy for the assailant.
If you’re thinking both were at fault, why should Trayvon Martin pay the ultimate price?
He chased the victim when he had no right. If this was on his own private property, I could understand. He’s protecting his property. He’s protecting his wife. He’s protecting his life. But he wasn’t doing none of that.
And all we have to go on is Zim’s word.
If I can’t believe what DeeDee is saying, why should I believe Zim? He lied on the stand to the parents saying he thought their son was a few years younger than him when he clearly states to 911 that TM was in his late teens. I don’t think he remembers what he said.
DeeDee’s call to TM has been verified by LE. She was on the phone according the prosecutor. Now if he’s mistaken, we shall see. Honesty, I really don’t need DeeDee to tell me TM was creeped out by this man who was following. I believe that would be a normal reaction when a stranger is following you on a rainy night.
Anyway..LOL Maybe we should all get to the shooting range and start practicing.. with this crazy world we live in.
Geesh.
G’Morning! : )
And Happy Holiday!! : )
I agree JB, maybe Trayvon would have a fighting chance.
Have duels and get it over with.
Zimmerman will be the only one that can testify about what happened
and he’s already shown he would like to be on the stand.
So he’ll have to take the stand and testify.
That’s what I think.
I don’t know why we couldn’t believe what Dee Dee is saying.
If they can’t find out on Trayvon’s phone, the FBI can on Dee Dee’s
About the cold and rainy night makes we wonder WHY he didn’t just stay in the car.
Like you, when being followed and you don’t know why, that is a threat or harrassment.
I still think the 911 calls from Zimmerman are important.
Trayvon wasn’t showing any signs of threat except running and ducking in the rain,
Zimmerman had called 911, he could have kept his dry seat in the truck and stayed on with 911.
Loly, are you not going to believe the witness that is reported in the doc dump to have seen Martin on top? Zimmerman had a medium grey shirt under the jacket, you can see here: http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-last-word/46887730#46887730 I don’t know if I’d call Martin’s shirt white but it is light. You can see it in the 7-11 video I linked above.
I don’t have any problem believing what the girlfriend is saying. But that doesn’t’ mean that is the only thing said. A witness heard arguing which is likely more than two sentences/questions. It had to be rather loud for someone to hear it indoors. No, there isn’t only Zimmerman’s word or testimony. There were witnesses to some of it. Someone saw Martin on top hitting him. Of course I read that some witnesses are changing their story. What’s with that? Afraid of hate crimes against them for sticking with their story? Maybe they aren’t changing their testimony, more media gossip to get attention?
I do agree that this is a tragedy that could have been prevented. But aren’t all things preventable? I also can’t see my way clear to judge at what point a person can draw the line in the amount of force they would use. When someone is scared they react through emotion not logic. But even if a bit of logic flashed through GZ’s mind, he likely thought head hitting cement is life threatening and a gun is equal force when someone is on the bottom hitting you. Oh, by the way, the LE report states that the back of Zimmerman’s coat was wet and had grass on it. That sounds like water from being on the ground to me. There is no report that the hoodie was wet on the back. I assume it had to be on the front since he was lying face down in the grass.
Loly and JB, please understand I don’t like this any more than you do, I wish Zimmerman would have just kept on toward the store. But it is what it is. Unless they can show that Zimmerman put his hands on Martin first, it is self defense. Asking him what he is doing in the neighborhood is not provoking what Martin was seen doing to Zimmerman. Maybe he thought it was but I don’t think that will fly in a court of law.
Zuben,
ITA
/blam
Loly said:
That’s is a fact and it’s already been verified so says the report.
Good evening all!
Zuben you mentioned water on the back of Zim’s coat. That would be right if both men were rolling on the ground wrestling. I believe he was on his back but I’m not sure if he stayed there.
You said:
Now this part of his story is not supported by the evidence and frankly, I don’t believe it either ..
for two reasons.
One, there’s no sign of blood on the pavement and the prosecutor & investigator said its not supported.
Two, if you look at the picture there are no abrasions except for that one cut on the back of his head. Unless I believe that Zim is holding his head perfectly still while being bashed on the ground then I could believe it happened. I would think when your in a fight to this extent, there’s a lot of movement, I would think his head would have several scrapes and scuff marks not the insigniificant scratches he has.
Zim not only doesn’t need stitches, he doesn’t even have a mild concussion. lol
And I do believe Zim was on top at some point because as you can see in the picture, there’s blood streaming down behind his ears and towards the front of his face along the jawline which tells me his head is leaning forward.
I haven’t heard of a viable explanation either as to how Zim was able to remove the gun from the holster while lying on his back have his head bashed and at the same time & Trayvon isn’t able to stop him or grab the tip of the gun to point it away from himself.
There’s a whole lot of shaking going on but Zim finds a way to shoot Trayvon from front to back in a straight line. JMHO
Oh Loly,
If GZ gets on the stand, it’ll be a big mistake for him. He doesn’t come off as likable or believable IMO.
But GZ being who he is… I think he will because he thinks he’s that smart. Oh well. We shall see.
But honestly, I’m not sure if Zim will be convicted because this case was so botched from the beginning. No drug or alcohol testing of Zimmerman.
Letting his wife take his clothing.They let him go home.I read somewhere on a legal blog that if you kill someone in self defense the burden of proof is on the person who did the killing which means that in these cases, the person is arrested and given a fair trial…but why not this one?
I was thinking since we know Zimmerman made some statements against the SPD at the town hall meeting causing the chief of police to resign. IIRC.. Then he sends an email of praise to the new police chief.. Maybe the police dept was afraid of Zimmerman? Does anyone think that’s possible?
I’m still amazed he wasn’t arrested on the night it happened??
Evening ALL! Hoping your all having a wonderful Weekend. GOD BLESS THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO SERVED SO THAT WE CAN BE FREE!!!!! THOUGHTS AND BLESSINGS GOING OUT TO OUR PEEPS IN FLORIDA, as they have a Storm going on there, already to letter “B” per Addie.
BLAM! Hugs! Great to see you
Zuben, I totally agree with your posts up thread 
JB, Loly and to anyone and everyone HIDEEE!!!! and many Hugs to all!
Well, thought about ya last evening JB,
. Ya prob wouldnt want me as a neighbor. Around the courner we have one of those signs Zuben was talking about that says Neighborhood Watch and has lil binocculors on it. But on my street we all kinda keep a lookout for each other. Yesterday evening ummm about 5 ish, I was watering some plants in my front yard. This guy, prob just at a glance in his mid 20s or so. walking down road, in hand had a lil note pad. Had a lanyard around his neck. Sunglasses and ball cap on. He walks from down the road. No car anywhere, then goes to my neighbor 2 houses down. Then the guy walks back by my house in direction he came from. I just keep watering, not really paying attention. It crosses my mind maybe he is selling newspapers or whatever. Well lil girl from across street comes over to see my grandbaby. Talking with her I see that guy leaving from her house. I ask who was that guy, she said OH he just tryign to sell security systems, as he walks out her drive way, he looks over at the house next to theirs, no one home, he just keeps walking. Little while later the Mom of the lil girl comes over and we sit and shoot the bull in the yard. I laugh and said, this is weird because I heard a guy on the radio saying that he had got in trouble with his wife, radio dj said a man had came to his hm trying to sell security system gave quote and dj tells him I will get with my wife and get back with ya. Wife tells dj, you just told complete stranger we have no security system. I laughed and told Tracy neighbor, that I thought of that dj when her dtr said that guy was selling security sys. I said what strange is he went only to other neighbor and her hse. She said he went to Diane, 2 doors other side of me too. Well we talked for a while and was getting dark. All sudden this guy walks up to a neighbor 4 houses down from me. Dark enough the person turned on front porch light. Lil girl said HEY Mimi, that same guy that came to our house. Mom said sure is. I said lets walk to your hse and you look and make sure, they arent suppose to solicite after 6:30. I called non emg number. PD said we did the right thing. I told them, what struck me as really odd is, the 4 homes he went to, are the ONLY homes that a veh is not home all day during the week.
Hi Arkansasmimi,
Thank you very much! And I hope you have a great day tomorrow too!
What a wonderful Memorial Day Weekend Reminder for all of us!
Please dont take this as me trying to be ugly. I am just gonna say it, maybe since you live in an area that has had high crime, you see things different than some of us. I truly believe that life experiences give us the reasons we feel as we do in various situations. I have been catching up and forgive me if I misquote, but where you state about crime being whatever, you dont care as long as you have your rights to walk down street (paraphrasing sorry) I can understand to a point where your coming from. But I personally would be concerned if there were multiple breakin in my neighborhood. IMHO, thats just being vigilant about whats going on. I mean sure I wouldnt want a Mrs Cravits (lol neighbor on Bewitched Tv Show, showing my age
) but in your seniro about if your son came home tippsy from prom and a nosey neighbor calling PD and getting him into the juvy system. I will not apoligize, if I saw a teen coming home tippsy, period, I would let you know, and if he were driving, yes mam, I would call PD, as underaged drinking is against the law, and so is anyone drinking and driving. My family and friends and possible myself are on those roads. Like the commercials say, buzzed driving is drunk driving. If one of my children were in that situation, I would want them to care enough to let me know.
This is just my opinion, and if I upset someone for that, I apoligize but I wont for feeling it.
Aww.. No Arkie! I’d love to have you as a neighbor. I’d hope you’d spray a little water onto my yard too.
I think in the situation you described you did the right thing. You were being a good neighbor.
Had TM been knocking on doors, I’d give GZ a pass too. But from all reports and Zimmmerman himself, he was just walking down the street.
There’s a difference. Now do you happen to pack a gun when you’re watering your flowers? LOL
If so then you’re neighbors might be a little worried about you.
Thank you for sharing Good neighbor AKM!
JB, from what I read, have to go back and get page number so forth, but I remb reading that someone said, GZ was holding his head in his hands so if he was bent over somewhat, that could poss be a reason for the blood flowing frontward.
Also, GZ wife brought another set of clothing to the PD for GZ to change into and the PD kept his clothing that he had on. Thats the way I read the doc to say.
LOL the comments I read about how having your head banged, slammed, bashed or whatever ya want to call it onto concrete, not being serious or whatever, I personally would feel threatened by anyone for any reason against the ground, let alone concrete. To say you wouldnt feel your life is threatened, well I am sorry, I just dont buy that. How would you not know at that secound how serious your injuries were or were going to be?
I have tried to keep an openmind on this and now that the docs are out, I still feel the same as anyone else, tragic that a loss of life happened and a life has forever been changed. I just dont feel like TM was the innocent child walking home and chased down by a wannabe cop.
Also, the autopsy report shows that TM had pot in his system. Be what it is how people feel about pot aside, it is illegal to have, and he had it in his system. My first husband smoked pot. I dont like it and didnt want it around my dtr. He respected my feelings on that and did elsewhere. I still lived around him being under the influence of it. My point I guess, is yes he would be mellow, but he did have a perinoid err about him if he and his friends were around others. I suppose this may have been because it was illegal. I dunno. But having said that, knowing that TM DID have it in his system, he could have been acting all perinoid and that is what made GZ call him suspisous. JMO
Thanks AKM,
I didn’t say if my son was driving. No if he were driving will drinking, I’d want him to learn a good lesson. Better then than after he hurts someone or himself.
I’m just saying being dropped off at the door or something like that. Being a good neighbor would be to knock on my door the next day to tell me about it. Yes, thank you. Thank you for not getting the authorities involved if he wasn’t driving.
You’d laugh if you saw my children’s father. He looks like an axe murderer. He’s 6’2″, he weighs close to 270 lbs, he has hair to the middle of his back. He’s 60 years old. He’s been a supervisor on his job for the 35 years. He knows his craft and is highly respected by his peers and co-workers.
Now, when I was raising my youngest son, remarried to the clean cut Virgo man, every once in awhile my EX would show up at one of my son’s football games at the playground.
One day, I’m sitting in the bleachers and he suddenly shows up without warning and sits right next to me. He asked me what number was on our son’s jersey. He sat with me the entire game.
Well..lol Needless to say after the game, all of the moms and dads who knew me, asked who was that man! I had to tell them, that’s my son’s father.
They laughed and said they were worried when he first came and sat next to me because of his appearance. One of the dads said he wanted to come by and ask me if everything was alright.
So there you have it. He looked out of the norm and people were concerned. This happens everyday. The key is ..people watched out for me, but no one acted out which I was really happy about. It would have embarrassed my baby boy…and I would have been really angry.
LOL..I said he looks like an axe murderer.
He makes more money than most of the dads there but you’d never know it by looking at him.
Oh and he hates drugs of any kind too. He’s straight as an arrow.
But his appearance scares the heck out of people. Once when my car broke down, he came out to give me a battery jump. Strangers stopped to ask if I was okay.
LOL
If I had a permit to carry, yep I might just do that lol. In my opinion, its the ones who dont have a permit that I worry about. One time I found while rakeing grass in my front yard, a lil silver revolver under a lil bush. FREAKED ME OUT. ALL shinny. My neighbor came running over, called PD, it had rained night before. Officer thought was real too, kicked it out, picked up by trigger thingy, didnt have any water run out, said it hadnt been there long. Wasnt real but looked damn well like a real one. Officer said some one prob threw it there and was gonna come back for or may have used as to threaten someone. Whatever the reason, someone put there in my yard, by the road for a reason and I dont think was good.
My family hunts. Have been around guns all my life. I personally am afraid of them. But there are alot of things that are legal I dont agree with or like. But the whole issue, again IMO, with the gun, is moot. He was legal in having and carrying it.
But JB, just because someone is walking, doesnt mean they cant be doing something that someone else deems suspious. This guy I was talking about, was walking down the street. He looked at the home next to my neighbor who was visiting as he walked out of her drive. No one was home there and it is dark there in evenings because of the many trees around it and sits down at a slant from the road. I felt this guy was suspious from the get go. And he wasnt “acting” anyway, just odd for my neighborhood. And had we had any breakins, I am sure my radar would have really been going haywire lol. IMHO, I feel GZ did the right thing, and possibly would feel different, had GZ NOT called the NON EMERG number at the beginning.
AKM,
lol
I agree. I worry about the ones who don’t have permits too. But I think you did the right thing. This guy ino your neighborhood was out of place. In the GZ/TM case, it’s the Neighborhood watch guy who was watching him. That’s good. GZ did the right thing too. But then he messed up. He got out of his vehicle and put himself in harms way. You didn’t strap on your holster to go follow the guy, did ya?
If you would have told me that, I would have said Arkie my Friend, please seek help Honey.
I believe we all agree more than we know about this case. There’s a right way which is what you did and there’s a wrong way which GZ did.
But I’d assume Zuben’s boys are really good well mannered boys and probably not follow the crowd like TM. He wanted to be Gangsta! It’s typical in my neck of the woods.
It was a mistake. Mistakes happen everyday. They’re are men in prison for being in a fight and thought the only way out was to pull out a gun. It happens all of the time to family men too. Family arguments with the crack head of the family, someone gets scared and shoots him. Person who shot him is charged with manslaughter.
I think one of the reasons why Loly and I feel differently about Trayvon is that we raised boys. Now I know Zuben should be the expert.
But anyway, I think having sons in a big city where I live, I was scared to death raising my boys..especially the younger one. He was big for age and he was macho. Very atheletic too. Beautiful kid which scared me to death.
At 13, he’d ask me to bring him and his friend to the mall to meet the girls. Now he and his friend could easily pass for 18 years old. Both were at least 5’10″ and weighed no less than 170 lbs. They looked like men until they opened their mouth and you heard baby talk. LOL (((hugs))) I love that kid.
But I would beat it in his head, if anyone picks a fight with you, WALK AWAY!! Even if you think you can beat up this kid, you won’t win because the next day this kid might come looking for you with a gun!!
That was my biggest fear. How is my son going to get thru adolescence? God please protect him! I prayed everyday. So if your son gets thru the dangerous years, you feel so blessed. He’s 24 years old now and he’s got a good calm head on his shoulders. Finally, I can relax.
So I think this is why I side with the Martins so much because there’s so much to worry about with boys, that you just don’t see this coming.
Her son was suspended from school. The mother worked, she couldn’t be with him 24/7 so she does what she thinks is best, she sends her son to stay with his father. That was the right thing to do, rather than let him hang out at the house when she’s not there and maybe she wanted him away from his friends?? And for that he got shot. Not for fighting as (from what I heard he liked to do) No, he’s shot for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
So yep, its hard for me to justify Zim’s actions. He’s 28yrs old. He should have known better. So forgive me if I relate to the Trayvon’s mother.
I think that’s why I’m so into this case. lol… I can relate. I believe most mothers of boys can.
JB,
Sure you want them to not fight. It used to be just fists and wrestle. Now, they whip out a knife or gun. I remember a while back if you were in a fight/stuggle that’s all that it was. Now they mean to kill and then claim stand your ground. That’s BS!! It’s what they used to call it murder.
Just saw on Dateline, it was Florida, a young boy stabbed another young guy to death after they got off of the school bus.
The boy was aquitted on SYG!! Very sad!
You know you were talking about your ex- husbandand how people were concerned about you because of the way he looked at the ball game and getting your tire fixed?
They wouldn’t have been one bit concerned if it had been Ted Bundy or some (normal???)
looking guy.
And what we think is normal, is it??: )
After seeing that Ted Bundy movie, I remember that scared me to death bevause he looked like a normal guy that just needed help.
Zuben,
Zimmerman said that Trayvon was wearing a dark gray/ black hoodie.
That’s what Trayvon has on in the picture.
Hi Mimi,
Something just sounds funny about you working in the garden with your gun,
Ladies used to could just chase them off with a broom! LOL
Was that what they called the good old days?
Going to bed before 6:00 AM tonight.
You can tell I need it. : )
Night all!
Loly said:
You know you were talking about your ex- husbandand how people were concerned about you because of the way he looked at the ball game and getting your tire fixed?
They wouldn’t have been one bit concerned if it had been Ted Bundy or some (normal???)
looking guy.
And what we think is normal, is it??: )
===============================================
LOL, good point! Yes, had he been Ted Bundy, they wouldn’t have batted an eye. So true.
but honestly my EX is a gentle giant, my son got the fighting gene from my side of the family. Are you surprised?
My uncle was a professional boxer in his hay day….So my poor baby boy had skills and I just had to make sure he kept himself in check at all times because unlike my side of the family, he had size. My people were smaller built people.
Anyway..I’m tired too..going to bed. G’Night!
Have a great day tomorrow! Don’t eat too much.
LOL oh Loly you have me rolling! The hater lurkers are gonna have fun with that Mimi having her gun in the garden
Lil ole Annie Oakley I aint lol X14 !
Oh JB I understand your point on raising boys and the Big City aspect of it. I have 3 brothers, younger by 1 yr and the youngest by 7 yrs. I totally do understand.
As for the Mother and Father losing a child my heart breaks for them. It also breaks for GZ and his wife and family also. This affected all of them, FOREVER.
This may sound strange to you, but honestly I was raised not to judge people by looks alone. More times than not, I have found that what people actually look like and how they truly are are not the same lol. Does that make sense? I could go further on that but, not to bait the haters lmbo! I totally respect your opinion on this case just as I would any other. Just as we agree to disagree on some things.
I just dont see that because GZ got out of his truck to watch and see where TM went was arrogant as you do. I stepped onto the road and watched and told the dispatcher where the guy was at and where he was headed. I personally think it was proactive. Now what happened in alot of this is speculation on our parts. IMHO. Have yall seen the 7-11 full video? Where it appears that TM gave 3 guys some $ and some things like a blunt were purchased? I will link it for ya if ya havent. Also some things to look at. I just, again in my opinion feel that because of diff life experiences, (you having sons, living in big city so forth) that we see this diff. I am saying this case was again, IMHO blown out of the water and made a racial issue wrongly. I totally agree the parents should have been made aware of what happened to their son. I just totally disagree with how it was portrayed. And from the way it was portrayed from the get go, the parents are sadly part of the problem in that the person whom should have looked out for them, turned it into a circus filled with mistruths and they kept the fire going.
=================================================================
Arkie, you’re exactly right. This case was blown out of the water and made to be a racial issue. I never saw it as a racial issue. And Arkie, I need no convincing that you’re not prejudice. I know you’re not.
JB
Morning all. Loly, yes TM had a dark grey hoodie but if you watch the 7-11 video I left a link to you will see the bottom of a shirt hanging below the jacket that is much lighter, maybe very light grey, maybe white. That is what I base the color of his shirt on. GZ is wearing a medium grey shirt and jacket with red.
JB said
JB, do you not believe the LE report that stated the back of GZ’s jacket was wet and he had wounds on head and face, supported by the 2nd picture here http://www.wftv.com/gallery/news/local/evidence-photos-show-bloodied-zimmerman-gun-more/ggFb/#1538953 showing more than one cut on the back of his head? How many hits would you have to take before you would resort to what ever force you had within your power and grasp? I have to say that is evidence TM was fighting. If the cut on his left finger was fresh, that is evidence he was the offender, not the other way around. My heart goes out to his mother too, having 7 sons of my own. But when any of them did something that was blatantly wrong I didn’t try to make excuses for them and they certainly didn’t have the freedom to walk to the 7-11 just because he felt like it after doing something wrong. He would have been in confinement for the duration, while doing enough extra chores to help him remember why his freedom is limited. When I read a sampling of the thousands of anti-Casey comments I could relate too because I am a mother. But the evidence didn’t support murder when I looked at it rationally, through my Virgo filter. Having lost one son a couple of times I can also understand that accidents do happen and parents aren’t perfect, a great Virgo lesson.
Coincidentally, this was my Leo son and I have Leo rising.
Mimi, is there a different version than the one I found? I did see him walk back off camera after paying then turning around and walking the other direction, wondered what he was doing. I haven’t seen the video of GZ at a town meeting either.
=======================================================================
Zuben, you asked:
“How many hits would you have to take before you would resort to what ever force you had within your power and grasp?”
I would have to take a deadly blow to my head before I would shoot someone in the chest. Honestly. I’m sure George Zimmerman knew that a shot to the chest would be fatal. Why didn’t he aim for the knees or the arm or anywhere else besides the chest if his intention wasn’t to kill him.
Doesn’t Zimmerman have the good sense to know that his approaching a stranger may be perceived as a threat to someone? Isn’t that taught in criminal law? LEO’s are trained to approach with caution. That’s why before they approach someone they say yell it’s the POLICE!!
LOL, Zimmerman wasn’t taking any hostages that night and may have even reflected on what he learned in that criminal law course he took. Maybe he knew he could claim self defense. It seems like he did everything right, doesn’t it? uh huh..
JB
Zuben, GOOOD Morning. I have been trying feverishly to catch up lol. I found a couple interesting video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9PPT4MsnP2k
Also check this out. Visually you can see that TM (as article states, and looks very good to me that this is what happened) that TM most likely knew these 3 guys that came into store, and most likely bought the Blunts for TM. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/05/26/interesting-development-trayvon-martin-quid-pro-quo-at-the-7-11/#more-40650
Good morning all. JB, from what I have read Tracy Martin did not live in Sanford, FL. He lived here in Miami Dade in the Miami Gardens area. He is/was a truck driver. It is his girlfriend/fiance who lives in Sanford and it was her townhouse that was in the Retreat community.
/blam
Zuben, ITA.
Amimi, I would like to see that video as well,……….. the video I saw also did not have a time stamp on it.
/blam
JB said…”Letting his wife take his clothing….”. JB, His wife did NOT take his clothing. It states clearly in the police reports that his wife BROUGHT him clean clothing because the police TOOK the clothes he was wearing as evidence.
And Blam….you are correct. Tracy Martin did NOT live in Sanford. He lived in Miami Dade. He was visiting his girlfriend/fiance who lived at the Retreat in Sanford.
Finally…..it also states in the police reports that it was raining off and on. The sidewalks and grass are wet in the evidence photos. That would have washed the blood off of the sidewalk and grass.
Zuben girl….I’m with you.
Hi Omar, Mimi, JB, Loly and all. Thanks, Mimi. I didn’t realize the prosecutor has a download link with much more than I’ve seen. The surveillance video, if you watch more than what was at the link I provided, shows he didn’t leave the store like I thought. The door is up in the right corner of the side view. So, he walked back through the store and waited for 5 minutes while these three guys, who were off in the direction that TM looked over his shoulder while paying, made a purchase from the secured tobacco area behind the clerk, then he left. Here’s the timeline that looks accurate if the time on the surveillance videos is accurate.
It is roughly 1/2 mile back. The average casual walking speed is 2-3.5 miles per hour. A fast pace or one more commonly done by a tall young male when it is wet and cold milght be 4.5-5.5 mph. But, lets stick with a causal snail’s pace stroll home, 3.5mph average for a tall man. Check my math here. .5 mile is 1/7 of 3.5mph so 60 minutes / 7=less than 9 minutes to walk back to the gated community. But, GZ didn’t make his call until 40 minutes later so either he did something on the way back or he’d been strolling in the neighborhood, circling GZ or something else. There’s roughly 30 to 40 minutes unaccounted for before the call to dispatch.
G’Morning! : )
WELL, if this isn’t the pits??? LMAO!
Now, let’s see if the next video we missed, we can see things that “SEEM” to be happenng.
BTW, he didn’t steal anything,YET!!! Of course that will be the next video we missed.
PLEASE!! I’ve gone up to the cash register before, thought about something else changed my mind and then went on up there. BTW, usually when I get there I always want to buy something that they’re selling around there. I just have to have something else.
Everyone says they feel bad for the parents, yet they keep putting them down for anything they can find, whether fact or not! This is pathetic for ones that keep saying they want facts.
Where was his Dad??
Why was he walking?? Yeah, it seems strange for someone now to be walking to the convenient
store, when we used to do it all of the time. It seems suspicious when we see someone walking anywhere now, because they mostly have cars or ride the ride the bus.
If anyone of us thought our kids were doing something to someone that wasn’t right, yes, we would tell them AND not everyone gets the same “punishment”. Seemsi like a lot of talking always helped. That was my therory whether anyone agrees or not.
What you think your kid may need is totally different.
THIS IS ME and it worked, talk, never lose communication with your kids.
They will come to you. They aren’t going to be perfect!!
At 17 you are really not considered a kid anymore and you aren’t an adult, but working on it,
AND yes, it is hard.
People say don’t be a friend to your kid, WHY NOT? Who do they go to when they want help, a friend.That doesn’t mean, you try to be a teenager, they know that, but they know you are the best one to come to.
Why on Martin’s case?
They didn’t do what you would have done?
And the video at 7-11, the new one, people on there call who Saint Skittles.
You think these are parents talking about a kid that just got murdered.
I garentee any parent on here, if the police came to you and told you that your son was
murdered, shot, killed and that the person that did it did it in self defense, would you go on with life as though everything they said was gospel? I hope not!
You would want to know everything about what hppened.
BUT no, they are run down, put down for everything.And reading where Trayvon is called Saint Skettles, I’m sorry but that just threw me over the edge.
=================================================================
Good point Loly
JB
Loly, I don’t think anyone here is calling TM skittles or putting the parents down. The video isn’t a new one. I can’t be responsible for other people’s comments but don’t really want to go through what it would take to get all this from the prosecutor’s site. The whole store surveillance video, like 5 hours long and multiple cameras, has been made available by the prosecutor for anyone that wants to create an account to get a password to download them. Apparently it isn’t a simple thing because it requires a special player due to the format the security company uses. But I’m sure you can download it all if you want to. The videos I’m finding on youtube all look like the real deal, right down to the clock running. It’s motion sensitive though so sometimes the clock is still.
I hope you’re having a nice Memorial Day. It’s really hot here.
Good Afternoon All,
Zuben, the picture you linked looks like the cleaned up version. I was referring to the picture in my article…clearly there’s blood dripping down the back of his head toward his jawline, puddled behind his ears.
Do you think someone photo-shopped it? Who knows.
Zuben, I really don’t think what TM did in school is that bad and obviously the school didn’t either because they didn’t expel him.
Parents punish in different ways. Maybe Sybrina took away his XBox?
I’m sure, if this were my son, my biggest concern would be the traces of MJ that was found in his bad. That means he’s using and if he’s using, I would want to put a stop to it ASAP because it’s illegal and his young brain needs all the cells working to get thru college.
I wouldn’t freak out ..because he’s 17yo. I’d expect at some point in his life he’d run into it.
Just my parenting vs. other parenting, I guess.
As for GZ’s supposed head bashing? Maybe at trial, I’ll be convinced. This is just another difference of opinion for you and I.
No big deal.
Zuben, you know I avoid hater comments from either side. I don’t buy into “oh my poor son” very often. If you’ve read all of my comments you’d know, what I said last night, is my first rant about how I love my kids and how I think it sucks that this young man was shot for no apparent reason.
If you’re picking up that my opinions are all based on emotions, let me know because they are not.
I see now his visit to the store is under scrutiny. Again, just more fluff to fill our heads. IMO, even if TM was selling bricks in the 711, I don’t know what it has to do with GZ shooting him approx.
40 minutes later.
Where’s GCG? LOL.. We thought about a drug deal gone bad. Hmm.. I wonder if TM was treading on GZ’s turf? <– Just pure speculation.
It would matter to me IF GZ had said that to 911. "hey, I just saw this guy selling MJ at the 711 and now he's walking in my "apartment" complex" . If he'd said something like that? At least it would explain why GZ was calling in a "suspicious" person.
I believe right now, people are grasping at straws, me included. The evidence will speak for itself and the jury will decide if they believe what GZ has to say.
Since I want GZ convicted, I'd love to see him get on the stand and it would prove my impression that he is arrogant. But if he lets his good attorney Mark O’Mara do the talking for him, he might walk.
jmo
*Omar, you're right. LE did take his clothes. Thank you.
Hi Blam,
I want to ask you, do you think “where” Tracy lived is relevant to the case? I’m lost. Tracy’s girl friend Brandy lived there at the apartment complex and she allowed TM to visit her, right? So he had a reason for being there, right?
Arkie,
Quick question.. Do you think TM smoked the doobie on his way back to the apartment? lol, I’m sorry but I think it’s funny you called it a blunt. That’s what kids today call it. Back in the day, we called them joints of doobies. hmm.. I feel so old. lol
JB,
I was stating it as a point of clarification bec it had been stated prior that he lived there at Retreat. That is all. It is relevant bec as you had said some days ago, you only want to deal w/ the facts.
/blam
No, JB, I think they are the same picture, just different contrast. The one above has deeper shadows but they’re the same blood marks, background too. It might be a matter of the software used to save and upload the photos. Maybe wftv used auto adjust or something like that to make sure they were as clear as possible, who knows. Yes, the blood did run down at an angle but if he stood looking down at TM or sat with his head in his hands right after the blood would run that way. The whole thing happened in a matter of a few minutes so the cuts would still be fresh and running after the gunshot. I would also assume if the heart is really pumping, it might take longer for it to clot.
I agree having traces of pot on his person isn’t the most horrible crime in the world. Neither is getting kicked out of school once. But this wasn’t the first time. Maybe you would consider me too strict but I wouldn’t allow my kids to have the kind of freedom he was given during a time of punishment given by the other authorities over him, the school. That’s like mom grounding him to his room then dad letting him out to play with a friend while mom goes to the store or work. Not right IMO. It gives him contradictory messages. Now, maybe they are silently protesting the illegality of MJ without medical license and they knew that the jewelry had good reason to be in his possession at school. In that case, I’m wrong in my opinion.
I’m curious to know, JB, how do you explain all the cuts and fractured nose if you aren’t convinced by the cuts and blood and testimony of LE that his coat was wet as if he’d been on the wet grass? No, I’m not saying all your opinions are based on emotion but I’m having a hard time understanding why you don’t think he took some punches and didn’t give any. My purpose for the 7-11 video timeline is because it looks like he must have been in the neighborhood a period of time before the call was made. What took place may have led to many of GZ’s comments, he’s acting strange, I think he’s on something, he’s checking me out, etc. We don’t know what he watched and where TM was before the phone number was dialed. Maybe he was zig zagging through people’s yards, not sticking to the road or sidewalks. We just don’t know. But there is enough time in between leaving the store and the call that something might have been going on that gave GZ reason to be suspicious. All this is pointless, really, at this point, until we are allowed to read his statement or hear testimony at trial.
There is still only one LE report I’ve seen that thought he should be charged with anything and that was not murder. So, the fact remains, with the evidence I’ve seen, they don’t have a case. If Martin would not have died I’ll bet he would be charged. Hitting someone because they ask you want you’re doing in their neighborhood is not legally justified. Now, if the girlfriend had heard Zimmerman threaten to kill him then maybe….
Hmm..Zuben, The picture in my article looks completely different from the one you posted. Maybe the picture you showed is after the EMT’s cleaned him up…but I see what I see…blood puddled behind his ears.
There’s a side view somewhere too, that shows the same thing. I see if I can find it for you.
Whats curious about GZ’s jacket is that his jeans aren’t as wet. If only his jacket is wet, then maybe that supports the sound of bushes being rumbled. That could mean GZ was pushed back into the bushes during the confrontation.
And I’m going to disagree with the theory that TM was stumbling on the street, because GZ was giving a blow by blow of what was happening, so why wouldn’t he say it? Again…we haven’t read any of the 3 or more statements Zim gave to investigators so no one really knows for sure
But what I do know, according to the DA at the bond hearing, there are descrepancies in his statements. So everything I think about what happened that night is just like what everyone else is thinking. Speculation.
I still believe without a blood drop on the pavement, it might be difficult for Zim to prove it happened. Yes, I see scuff marks and a cut on his head, but I don’t know for a fact his injuries came from being bashed on the sidewalk as it’s been reported.
Blam,
Okay, but I thought we were going to discuss evidentiary facts not incidental facts but that’s fine, duly noted. Tracy Martin lives in Miami Gardens. Got it. But you agree it doesn’t have anything to do with GZ’s innocence or guilt?
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/new-bloody-photos-details-more-of-george-zimmermans-injuries/
Zub, you’ll notice the 3rd picture is the one you linked. Your’s is a close up of that one I believe. The 4th picture is the one I linked.
The one I’d like you to look at is the 5th one. This is the side view.
I’m going to add that on to my article for safe keeping.
Oh one more incidental thing I found in the doc dump. It mentions GZ’s blood on Trayvon’s white undershirt, described as a drip not a smear so perhaps this explains why some witnesses mention the man in white shirt. It seems to reason that in the scuffle, TM’s hoodie was pulled up.
Also doesn’t a drip of blood seem like someone is over him, dripping blood?
I’ll be back with more clarification.
JB, I was about to post the same thing. I found both pictures http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/615/img/photos/2012/05/17/33/b0/ZimmermanEvidence2.jpg You have picture number 3 embedded into this article and I was referring to #2. Yes, they are two different pictures taken one after the other. I don’t think the flash went off on the one you used, or else it’s darker because it is taken closer.
How do you think GZ got the wounds, if not from TM? I don’t understand what you’re saying. Now, what if the head cuts didn’t come from the sidewalk? Look at that cresent shaped abrasion. That looks like a hit with an object not a flat surface. But, I’m not a forensic scientist. As for the prosecution’s version, if he’s anything like Ashton how much can we believe? Remember his star witness at the bond hearing admitted they didn’t have a case. The state got off to a really bad start. I’m wondering if this whole arrest is just for show, to silence the civil rights accusers.
What page did the word drip come from? I only remember reading stains, not smear or drip. Have a good night. I’m going to rest my weary brain.
Zuben,
No, I’m not saying he didn’t get his wounds from the fight he had with TM. I’m saying it might indicate Zim wasn’t always on his back…that at some point he was on top. Sorry, I failed to get my point across.
And that’s true about the DA too. Maybe he is full of bull like Ashton and Burdick, IDK but since he said it under oath, I’d hate to think the investigator would perjure himself.
Zub, I’m just looking for a few facts and as I said before, I have nothing to go..so for the time being I’m going to quote what was said at the bond hearing.
Yep, just as you and I have different opinions as to if there is a case, I’m sure LE and the DA did too. Its understandable, imo.
Zub, you mentioned again if Sanford Police Dept is just trying to please the civil rights accusers, I’m not so sure about that because I’m not thinking about Trayvon’s civil rights. I’m thinking about how it came to be that he was shot…so I don’t know.
Enjoy your day,
My son and his friend did an excellent job of barbequing today. Yummy. I’m going to go have a piece of apple pie and a cup of coffee to relax now too. Relax my weary brain..but one thing for sure, if I have to discuss this case with anyone it would be you cuz I know you’ll be fair and I’ll try my best to do the same.
Do you know, my mom and I discussed the OJ Simpson case all of the time. She was definitely anti-OJ Simpson and I wasn’t.
It’s when there’s cases like these that I miss her the most. I’m glad I found all of you good people to tolerate me.
Thank you.
Court motions preview evidence public hasn’t seen in George Zimmerman case
By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel
6:51 p.m. EST, May 28, 2012
Snippet:
So what’s left? Documents filed with the court by both the state and defense seeking to keep certain records under seal offer a peek behind the curtain and preview potentially important evidence.
But based on what what’s out there now, legal experts say it’s unlikely there’s a bombshell waiting.
“I think that we have seen the best the state has to offer to this point,” said Bill Sheaffer, an Orlando defense attorney and WFTV-Channel 9 legal analyst.
Statements could challenge credibility
When prosecutors released recordings of interviews with witnesses in the case, the voice of the man who fired the fatal shot was notably absent. Zimmerman has given multiple statements to authorities. None has been released.
Special Prosecutor Angela Corey’s office withheld those records, arguing that they fall under a statutory exemption for confessions. Zimmerman admits to shooting the unarmed 17-year-old but claims he fired in self-defense.
Those statements are likely the most important evidence the public hasn’t seen, Sheaffer said.
“The physical evidence in the case seems to support his story of what happened,” Sheaffer said. “That makes the statements of George Zimmerman all the more important.”
In a motion asking Judge Kenneth Lester to seal some evidence in the case, prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda writes Zimmerman’s statements “are contradictory, and are inconsistent with the physical evidence and statements of witnesses
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-28/news/os-george-zimmerman-omara-more-evidence-20120528_1_special-prosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-statements
lolypop @ May 28, 2012 at 2:06 pm said: “Everyone says they feel bad for the parents, yet they keep putting them down for anything they can find, whether fact or not! This is pathetic for ones that keep saying they want facts.”
Loly, I speak for myself when I say this. I feel sympathy for the Parents and Family of TM, as in the loss of a son. And as far as putting them down, I am a big girl so I will own up to the fact that I think that they have caused this to be a racial situation from the beginning. I havent nor do I still feel it was racial in the since of GZ and TM. The facts as they are about the parents, and what they are or have said are out there all you have to do is google. Yes and for the last time, if I lost a child I would most certainly want to know everything I could about what happened, I say and hopefully by the GRACE OF GOD never have to be in the situation, but I would want to know the WHOLE TRUTH, NO MATTER HOW HARD IT IS. THATS THE ONLY WAY IMHO TO BEGIN THE LONG ROAD OF HEALING.
To make excuses for TM actions in his bad decisions serves as no help to anyone. It does go to show his character. I do not know the boy. But from what I have seen and read, and I am not talking just MSM, my opinion is he was a THUG. Plain and simple. Does that mean he should have died? Just because he was a thug, ABSOLUTELY NOT, BUT being of the character he had shown, if very well could have been the reason he was in the situation that led to his death. And by the way, the autopsy report in the docs released, show that he had pot in his system. Mind you this is not the complete Autopsy report. Hoping your having a good end of the long Weekend.
oh and the THUG impression is of mine and mine alone in the above comment. It doesnt no represent anyone else heres feelings unless they express them themselves.** Mimi
Zuben,
I went looking for the description of GZ’s blood stain on TM’s shirt and I couldn’t find it. Don’t know now, if I found it once..lol, I’ll find it again.
While I was looking I read this Witness Report on page 49 of the doc dump.
What do we make of this?
No problem Arkie,
I have GZ pegged as an arrogant, self-centered narcissist. We’re all entitled to our own opinion.
Gnite all!
AKM,
Long road to healing is acceptance of the truth? And what truth would that be? And what actions should his family come to terms with? I’m lost. The report clearly states TM was not involved in any criminal activity on Feb 26th.
Do you believe all thugs should die and their parents should just accept it?
You said:
To make excuses for TM actions in his bad decisions serves as no help to anyone.
Huh? Why would I make excuses for Trayvon Martin? He’s not my child but I do care enough to know that no one deserves to be shot and killed because he looks suspicious. Thats all I care about.
Arkie, I think you missed the point some where. I don’t have to defend Trayvon Martin because if I Google his name I’ll read some horse crap about him. What do I care what he’s like?
I don’t care if he was selling kilos of marijuana at the 711 convenience store, it still doesn’t excuse George Zimmerman of murdering him.
I don’t know if you’re aware of this but GZ admitted killing TM in self defense. That’s the debate. It is whether or not he justifiably killed an unarmed man. BTW, the report clearly states at the time of his murder TM was not doing anything that was criminally wrong. I hope the Martins learn that. lol
And..I didn’t read in a report that George Zimmerman claimed he killed Trayvon Martin because he was a thug?? So I don’t get it.
George Zimmerman claimed he killed him because TM attacked him. So what does being a thug have to do with it? He attacked him because GZ was following him. Just like what does George Zimmerman being an arrogant asshole have to do with it? Nothing.
So unless I missed something, I don’t understand why you’re lecturing anyone about how its best for the Martin family to learn the truth, that their son was a thug and its his fault he died.
I believe that’s highly debatable.
But absolutely not, the Martin’s don’t need to learn ANYTHING about what people say on Google. The only thing the Martins need to know is why GZ didn’t stay in his truck. And why did GZ kill their son.
And thank the Almighty God Above, George Zimmerman was arrested and is charged with 2nd degree murder. Hallejuah! Praise the Lord! The Martins will learn the truth in a court of law, not from Google. Yippee!
Ooops, I forgot to address something else you said Arkie.
I don’t care if Trayvon Martin had smoked 25 blunts that day. Ok? It’s means nothing in my opinion. Because I know from what I read in the same documents you read was TM was not doing anything criminally wrong on the night he was shot to death.
lol..It wasn’t even after curfew. He was shot at 7:16 pm. He’s 17years old. He old enough to cross the street by himself so please tell me why his parents should feel any guilt for what happened that night.
Another thing, why are you going after Trayvon’s parents? Would it make any difference if TM was a runaway from a foster home and both his parents were on death row?
Would he still not be allowed to walk on a public street? Even if he didn’t know a soul in that apartment complex? I really want to know. Is that what you think? Is that what other people think?
That’s so crazy.. LOL I’m sorry but it’s comical to me.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU JB! WELL SAID!
===================================================================
Thank you TJ. I’m just trying to keep it real..
JB
I’m not sure what to make of that statement, JB. I scrolled through the discovery to find the notes starting with 3/10/2012 at 1330 and find a different statement. This is on page 42 and the witness does not know who the person is but says it is a neighbor, where the quote you have says she identified her neighbor who was talking to someone else, before the shot was fired. This report was produced by Serino on 3/13, 13 pages and the quote you have is the same officer, dated 3/18, 7 pages. You will notice on page 9 of 13, pdf page 43, this is the officer that wanted him charged with manslaughter. To find a discrepency like this in his paperwork I would clearly need to match each officer narrative with each 911, written and recorded statement to see what actually happened at 1331, 3/10/2012 with officer Serino. Is it just a simple typo? I can’t know without the information that is blacked out so I could match to 911 calls and recorded statements that would have dates and times.
The version you quoted is found on pdf page 49, page 2 of 7 in this particular report. This report was dated 5 days after the other one in the 13 page report.
Maybe I could form an opinion if I matched it to her 911 call and statements. We know how easily witness testimony gets confused and even false. Many convictions happen and are also overturned on false witness testimony. The memory is a strange thing, especially when emotionally traumatized by the event in question. I think since there are many witnesses, the truth will be found in the details that are repeated among witnesses. This witness seems to be saying there was a 3rd person out there, according to Serino’s version of it, but no one else has said that. Notice the date of this interview is 12 days after the fact and the 2nd report the officer that wanted him charged with negligent manslaughter wrote. Why is he repeating things but they appear to be altered or maybe just sloppy with details? Her 911 and any statement that night will be much more reliable.
So I tracked down the 911 recordings and the first one here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT4DnTnJ3Ww speaks of an elderly man that lives 2 doors down so is this the person? It sounds like wesh has cut off the beginning of the call. This woman stood at the sliding glass door and couldn’t see people, only flashlights. So, lets try this one since the other sounds edited by wftv: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO0oyDFS4Jo&feature=related The most complete call, including the cries for help is 6:07 mark, the one with Jeremy in the background. Listen closely because before the shot you can hear other noises, sound of rain and some hitting sounds of some sort. Are they caused by the caller or coming from outside? She says she is hiding upstairs and must have the window open. The next female caller is 30 YO and calls after the shot. She is the one that saw the guy on top with a white shirt.
The woman with the elderly male neighbor that thought it might be an ambulence for him is at the 12:52 mark. She was 2 doors down from the screaming, the elderly man lived 4 doors North who she thought might be focus of the ruckus. She was standing at the sliding glass door. She describes the cries for help the same was as written by officer Serino so I think this is the person. But something isn’t fitting at all. The link I shared above contains 8 calls. Is that all of them? In the call, this woman states she is standing at her sliding door, which is on the ground floor. But Officer Serino says she said she closed her slider then went upstairs and opened her bathroom window. This doesn’t match at all. She is describing the man being her neighbor and standing at his back porch. Zimmerman is not her close neighbor. He lives the next steet over, at the end where it curves around. I think this woman or Serino is confused. Which, remains to be seen.
While I was looking for the 911 calls I found this video, claimed to be of the girlfriend. http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-killing-911-tape-reveals-racial-slur/story?id=15966309#.T8T86F3hUdV The parents and their attorney got this, the attorney asking her questions, then shared with ABC.
“He said this man was watching him so he put his hoodie on”. Now, if this is true he started out with the hoodie off, revealing his light colored, maybe white shirt that can be seen under the hoodie in the 7-11 video. But, is that all she said in that particular sentence provided by the Martin attorney? Listen to the word ‘on’. It is broken in half, as if the tape is stopped then started again. The rest of her statement is even more hacked into pieces. I thought maybe it was TYT (The Young Turks) Network that was responsible for this, as it was the first version I found so I looked for the original on the ABC site and they are identical recordings.
I found this program sharing the audio interview between police and the girlfriend. I didn’t realize it had been released. http://www.democracynow.org/2012/5/18/i_know_he_was_scared_trayvon She tells LE he went to the store to get food and drink for his brother. It started to rain and he ran to the mail thing that was a covered area. (I see a small square roof on the east side of the clubhouse and that may be the mail thing she refers to. The phone hung up and she called him back. He said a white man was watching him, on the phone in his car. (Zimmerman drove a truck, right? probably no big deal)
She said the phone hung up again. She called him back. TM said the man was still watching him, “…following him behind the car. He put his hoddie on.” “…He said this man is still watching from a car. So he about to run from the back. I told him to go to his dad’s house. Run to his dad’s house.” “…I could hear wind blowin.” “…He say he lost him.” His voice sounded out of breath and got low, which she interpreted as sounding scared. She told him to keep running, he said he ain’t gonna run. So, this sounds like GZ is in his truck and Martin has walked past him and is now behind him. She goes on to say she knows he isn’t going to run because he is breathing very hard. He couldn’t have run far at all and a fit young man wouldn’t be that out of breath running that short a distance.
I’m sorry but I’ve experienced a male voice going lower, before attack. The voice raises when scared. It is a male aggression response, making their voice lower to sound more masculine. I ain’t gonna run is testosterone talking, not fear. I’ve experienced my own voice dropping a notch when i am angry and exerting my rights or authority in a situation. It is roughly 300-420′ or 135-140 yards from the covered mail area to where he was shot. Is that far enough to make a 17 year old athlete that that winded? If he ran down the road toward his dad’s place and back entrance that would be further but then how did he get back up that far. It sounds like the shooting was very near the sidewalk 2, maybe 2 doors down so closer to the curve than his dad’s place.
Fearing my judgement may be subjective I searched to see if professional research bears supports what I’m saying. Most of what I found is only abstracts but I found a book that describes what I’m suggesting. It appears there is a difference between hot and cold anger, which makes sense. Anita Clark in her book, Psychology of Moods, (2005) says
I would like to add something about MJ because medicinal herbs is a great interest of mine. When a substance is a needed medicine, it helps and eliminates certain problems. If it is used and it isn’t needed by the body it acts in an opposite way, creating the symptoms it can cure. The same is true if too much or too little is taken. Pain meds will cause a high in someone who either doesn’t have the pain or if they take more than their body needs. Too little won’t touch the pain. MJ is known to cause weird and illusory paranoia at normal doses according to their own personal tolerance, in some, but not in those who’s bodies need the medicine it offers. In fact, it will lessen paranoia in certain people. So, although it might make one more laid back it can also bring on unreasonable paranoia which would then make one not so mellow.
Great post Zuben!
Thank you Mimi. I only want to put the facts into context and perspective, as much as I can, not having all the details.
Oh I hope I haven’t angered the author I quoted above. I put the end blockquote in the wrong place. Only the 1st sentence came from her book. My apologies.
Hi Zuben,
Wow, thank you for all of your hard work. Have you ever thought of being a private eye? You think of everything! You’re good girl.
And you’re so right about the witness reports. I’ve read that false witness testimony is one of the main causes for many wrongful convictions. Not that they do it on purpose, they just remember it wrong. And thanks for pointing out Serino as the investigator doing the interviews. Got it.
Yes on page 42, I agree ..this is the best match to be the woman. Here’s what it says in the “digitally recorded” interview on 3/10 @ approx. 1330 hours. “Roughly” ok.
Good source for the 911 calls too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO0oyDFS4Jo&feature=related I’m not sure if its all of the calls though. I think there’s 13 calls?? Anyway, I’ll refer back to this one.
Yes, I listened to 911 call @ 6:07 mark, the one with Jeremy and I heard to the 2 loud “crashing” or hitting noises right before the shot too. It could be the sliding door slamming closed? Don’t really know. I thought about, “why” no mention of dog and neighbor but probably in the urgency of calling 911, it’s not important. It’s when Inv. Serino comes back, any witness would give him more details. That’s probably why he comes back.
In the call at 12:52 mark. She didn’t mention the dog or the neighbor either so hard to say. Hmm..thanks for clearing Zimmerman because I wondered if he was the neighbor she kept referring to. It really is strange the way that report was written and making it seem like there’s a 3rd party. IDK ..what’s up with that? It’s definitely confusing but it makes me even more curious about the knocking sound we hear in Zimmerman’s call.
Was he knocking on a door? lol Geesh Louise!
Zuben, from my understanding Zimmerman drove a SUV, maybe a Honda because of his keys but I know a lot of people refer to SUV’s as trucks. It once confused me too but now I’m used to it. I don’t have time to listen to the chopped up tape right now but I will later. Just from what you posted sounds logical. And I agree TM saying “I ain’t gonna run” is testosterone talking, not fear. And I’d also think there’s a little pride there too.. him not wanting a girl to know he was running.
You know how those boys are..can’t show fear to the chicks.
300-420′ or 135-140 yards might be long if you’re afraid and running?? Don’t really know because adrenaline is kicking it too. But I’m thinking..if his dad’s place were a little closer he may have just continued to run but he knew once he started running, he didn’t know if he’d make it all the way.
Does that make sense? I’m not sure if I’m saying it right.. Anyway, I think TM was feeling a combination of fear and testosterone. One he was scared, two he felt like a wimp for running, imo.
I’ve never read about cold or hot anger before. Sounds like an interesting science but I’m not sure if he was angry or more embarrassed by letting anyone know he ran. And lets remember he may have been high from marijuana too which is known to cause paranoia. Paranoia could have made him feel totally confused by Zimmerman following him so I don’t know how the Cold and Hot Anger applies to this scenario.
If I were a “high” 17 years old and a strange woman was following me, that would be a total buzz kill. But I don’t think even a “high” normal person would have murderous intentions because of that. He did initially run then stopped and thought clearly enough to ask this person “why are you following me?” Do you agree that would be a normal response and a good question to ask?
Alright, I’ll be back after dinner. I really want to hear the chopped up tape. Isn’t it pathetic how they do that? It’s so stupid because once you chop it up, it’s worthless.
Thanks, JB. That’s Virgo Sun and Scorpio Moon at work.
I see some witnesses have shared their stories. Here’s a few I found.
The young boy walking the dog. What a horrible thing for him to have to witness. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AySYPMy1Ejw&feature=related
The woman who wrote for the witness that needed a translator calls TM a little boy and is speaking out loudly against LE. Her story doesn’t fit with anyone else’s version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08Rf4G0JOOk&feature=related and here with her roommate, TM’s family and attorney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMyArWpoB8A&feature=related
unidentified http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYf2xTvJpzU&feature=related
Zimmerman was the one screaming, man that had been on top beating the one on the bottom was then on laying on the grass and I believe he was dead at that time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODGzTLA0JSg&feature=related
John, may be the man in the last video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RaknmTkjvU&feature=related
Have a good night all
Yes Indeedy Zubie
And don’t you have Leo rising? You know there’s someone else with Virgo Sun, Scorpio moon? lol..but I don’t see any resemblance to your traits. Could it be Mars in Aquarius or some other disasterous planetary alignment? lmbo!
Thank you, I will definitely check out the videos. I think I saw the one with the kid and his pit bull. Funny thing, I believe I read somewhere that it was because of the unleashed pit bulls of the complex that made Zim buy a gun. How ironic!
I wanted to ask you.. Do you think the 2 guys with flashlights who were seen searching the ground almost immediately after the shooting could be Zimmerman and the neighbor? I know it’s probably LEO’s but I’m wondering because on the list of evidence, there are 2 flashlights.
About the call with the yells for help..If you listen really close, I think I hear Jeremy say the word “warn”. Okay..Now here’s the WHAT IF..
What if the 3rd person is Jeremy? What if when the woman comes home, she’s not alone. What if Jeremy is nearby.
She enters thru the front door and heads straight to the back door to let the dog out, meanwhile Jeremy is alarmed, hears a noise coming from the back, so he heads that way. He sees the fight going on at about the same time she’s opening up the patio door.
Is he the neighbor? And he just walks into her apartment out of fear or to make sure she calls 911 because things are looking dangerous outside?
I say this because..It’s almost as soon as you hear what could be the patio door slide open, Jeremy is saying something and the shot rings out.
She could know this neighbor’s name and just doesn’t want to say for whatever reason.
:sigh: It’s a long shot, I know but I sure am wondering what’s with this 3rd person?? It might be the reason Serino wanted Zimmerman arrested?
Or it could be as you suggested..its a typo. Ok, off to listen to the witness videos.
Have a good evening everyone.
Trying to find where I read it a lil bit ago. Forgive me but unsure which side, but that they are trying to seal the 911 tapes. LOL the ones that have already been released. Hope I misunderstood, that sounds strange, IMHO. Also I think on the 31st some more doc are suppose be released, but motions have been filed to seal. OS and some others are trying to stop the sealing. tohttp://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-29/news/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-motion-20120529_1_sealing-court-motion-evidence be released
Sorry if this has been posted. Here is a link that has many video and audio , Zuben and Blam, one of the audio is from GZ at a counsel meeting I think any who here is the link. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/
G’Evening!: )
This is the man that walked past Zimmermam and HE’S saying Zimmerman was looking up at him and hollering help, help, He told WHO to stop?
If Trayvon was o top couldn’t he just stop it. Wha was he afraid of and I still don’t get WHO he’s telling to stop.
He goes in to call 911 and before he calls Trayvon is shot.
He’s the one who’s name is John.
He IMO told him to just call his wife and tell her that he shot someone.
Now if he’s not the one that took the crappy picture, who was?
Surely an officer has a better camera with him.
ALSO, since they took that one there, WHY didn’t they show the pictures on FEB. 27th and at that time arrest Zimmerman?
This is another witness, not John!!!
Lolypop,
from the docs: the person that says GZ ask to call 911, has a roommate and is NOT John. This is on page 102.
The person who I am gonna say IMHO is JOHN, states pretty clearly in his report that he is going to call the cops and that TM was hitting GZ MMA style hits. This is inv report pg 38 (pg 4 of 13). The inv report shows info given at 21:05 on Feb 26, 2012. (this would be 9:05 pm) This witness written report is on 86.
Having said this, to your question, > “This is the man that walked past Zimmermam and HE’S saying Zimmerman was looking up at him and hollering help, help, He told WHO to stop?
If Trayvon was o top couldn’t he just stop it. Wha was he afraid of and I still don’t get WHO he’s telling to stop” *** I am gonna say JOHN is telling TM to stop. I say this, because he (witness says this the person he is gonna call cops, and that person on the bottom who he goes on to describe GZ, who is yelling for help)
On Feb 28 10:30 am pg 56, (pg 2 of 7) Inv Serino met with Tracy Martin, after hearing the 911 call, Mr. Martin was asked if voice calling for help was that of his son. “Mr. Martin clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly stated, no”
Investigator states that a male voice, determined to be that of GZ was who was apparently yelling for help as he was being battered by TM pg 39 (5 of 13) Investigator states in 911 call 20120571669 specifically, he could clearly hear help or help me 14 times in 38 seconds.
Loly, as for the pictures, I am going to assume, (I KNOW) that the pix with the blood were taken at the SPD. The black and white pix in discovery, of GZ face with a clearly broken nose, in the back of the squad car were taken by an officer Michael Wagner. He took pix with his personal I Phone as didnt have immediate access to a digital camera. Then down loaded to PD issue laptop. Pg 64 (2 of 7) and report pg 18 (18 of 18)
Having read this, IMHO this is the pix that has the time stamp of 3 mins.
Loly – “If Trayvon was o top couldn’t he just stop it. Wha was he afraid of …” I am taking this to mean, if Trayvon was on top, then couldnt JOHN just stop it, What was JOHN afraid of? IMHO from reading this witness report, if I am correct that I have the right one, He was discribing TM hitting GZ MMA (mixed martial arts) style and didnt want to get involved and told to stop and that he was calling the police. Again JMO.
Good morning. JB, at least one witness saw the commotion and said there were 2 people. Listening to her call, she is speaking of her elderly neighbor because she thinks he is the one calling for help because he has a bad heart. She mentions him at least twice and even says he lives 4 doors north of her. I don’t think there was a 3rd person and I think Serino needs a review of how to write reports accurately and consistantly. Yes I am being critical but I think it is justified and the right use of Virgo’s fine sense of discrimination. (BTW, when you see the more negative side of the virgin come out it is usually because they are very hard on themselves, can’t accept imperfection and they project that on to others, low self esteem. They see themselves as the 10 kernels of corn that didn’t develop and can’t see there are 790 other parts of themselves that is as perfect as possible. Yes, I have Leo rising with Pluto in the 1st. Mars in AQ can be a loose cannon if they haven’t learned how to harness that energy so the genius can emerge. I have Mars happy in Cappy in mutual reception with Saturn and it reflects my ability to focus deeply, see underground in a way. Also, I have a few bodies void of course so I am odd in certain ways, absorbing when others are reflecting the light rays, perhaps.
)
As for the 2 flashlights, could TM have had one or did it belong to GZ? He was walking in the dark so it would be reasonable to have one on him. Look on page 11, 2 swabs, evidence tag DMS 22, suspected blood evidence taken from Skittles located within DMS 10 and the flashlight located within DMS 6. Back up to page 7 and you will see that DMS 10 is TM’s personal effects; red 7-11 lighter, photo button, skittles, and headphones located within his pockets. But there is mixed reporting on exactly where each item was.
Now, back up to page 6 and you’ll see this is the black flashlight. To have the swabs tagged together they must believe it came from TM. I find no lab report on these swabs. I just noticed too that the white bag is a ?mart bag. I think Kmart is always red so it may be Walmart. It had blood evidence and is DMS 4, the first aid kit DMS 5. Page 16 reports officer instructed a witness to bring him vasaline and plastic, he brought him a bag so this is probably that bag. The flashlight is the next object tagged. DMS 3 is a tan bag found on the sidewalk. Was the bag from 7-11 tan? The tea he bought was in his pocket. The officer said as the shirt was lifted to reveal the gunshot there was a can of tea in the center pocket. Is that one of those shirts that has a pocket across the belly? Did the bag fall out but the tea stay in? Page 17 says the skittles were in his hoodie pocket, tea and earphones were near him. The officer that took out the tea didn’t mention the earphones. They weren’t plugged into the phone, as far as I can tell. Phone was further away from him.
Page 16, he was lying face down with his head to the north but later down the page, a different report, he was lying face up with his head to the West. If they roll someone over wouldn’t his head still be to the North? Maybe they got their directions confused.
Further down on page 16 it is reported that the key chain was found on the grass near the T portion of the sidewalk. This is where the sidewalk comes from the road to adjoin one going between buildings. The black flashlight was just east of this. Since the keychain seems to go to a honda SUV that GZ drove maybe the flashlight is his too. It seems likely the key chain and flashlight were originally in the same hand, likely GZ because I’m pretty sure he owns the honda. But it doesn’t seem like they should have the swab tagged with TM’s personal effects swab. I assume they can clarify who it belongs too.
Mimi, thank you for the link. I didn’t find a video of the meeting but did find an article. I can understand why Zimmerman was as passionate as he was about protecting his neighborhood. What he said at the town meeting is exactly what i’ve seen over and over. LE sit in parking lots napping and chatting, spending time writting traffic tickets, looking for excuses to pull people over than patrolling crime infested areas. They get paid regardless and even though they deny it I know they have quotas to fill on minor things like speeding tickets. That’s income for the county and state. Gotta pay those salaries somehow.
Zuben I didnt see a video of the town meeting but did have a audio of it. Thats all I saw.
I’m only getting an empty space where the audio might have been but I found it at business insider. I must say I am impressed with him. He is clear, to the point, not arrogant sounding but instead, sounds firm and confident in what he is saying. He wants his town cleaned up. http://www.businessinsider.com/george-zimmerman-called-police-disgusting-in-2011-2012-5#ooid=92cDhzNDorYU2H1Ugu4Vz48rL82B55io
G’Morning!!
Zimmerman sounds like a couple of guys in our past neighborhoods and you no one want them for a neighborhood watchman.
A neighhood watchman needs to have a cooler head, not controling and after this didn’t Zimmerman say he would be glad to join the ploice forcce in Janurary?
What happened in Janurary?
Everyone get’s upset when mentioned he wanted to be a police officer? Why?
Same with a judge?
What’s wrong with that?
His Dad was a judge, maybe wanted to be like him
He evidently did’t make it, maybe because of his record.
He said what he saw was disgusting and I was just wondering what became of that?
Did the officers get to tell their stories.
Maybe they weren’t as aggresive as he was.
They don’t need to be aggresive.
We see what aggresive does, over aggresive! Thee a a few videos of aggresive cops, not good.
The ones I’ve always known were the ones that were calm .
There are some still out there that would love to keep the department a good name.
Zimmerman took the law into his own hands. He wasn’t threatened, if so stay in the truck,
don’t follow especially when the police were right there, minute after he shot and killed
Trayvon.
Make all of the excuses you want for Zimmerman, he took a life that night for no cause,
he took the law in his own hands.
Mimi,
I read where the flashlights belonged to Zimmerman.
Makes sense he was getting out of his truck in the dark.
If he would have stayed in his truck what did he think Trayvon was going to do unless he got
out?
Like I said he knew the police were on their way.
BUT, really what for because someone looked suspicious?
Zuben, yes that is the same audio as I heard. I went back to the link I put, it took a few to load, dont know what prob is but, yes I agree with you on the impression, at least hearing him speak at that meeting. Its a nice off and on rainy day and I have time so I am catching up. This new comp is soo touchy lol taking me a while to get use to.
Loly, Good Afternoon! Did ya get any rain? My family down there got quite abit they said. Hit and miss here.
On the flashlights, I think it was Zuben who was talking about them. I have read the docs and saw it mentioned, but I havent got into that part much yet.
Just wondering out loud, this is for anyone. If you were to see someone whom you noticed that to you for whatever reason seemed to be suspicious, what would you do.
Since we dont know yet, from GZ statements we dont know what TM was doing that brought about this impression to GZ.
Loly, have you read the HOA stuff in the docs? It clearly states that there had been criminal activity in the complex. I think there is a hearing possibly Friday? So maybe more will be released.
The fact is GZ had every bit as much right to get out of his truck and walk as TM did. The fact is, after the police told him he didn’t need to follow (it wasn’t a direct order, he told him he didn’t need to follow) we don’t know that he didn’t stop right then and start heading back to the truck. The sound of wind stopped then, right? For all we know, TM may have ran down the back side of the buildings to where two buildings meet, GZ may have gotten around that corner when LE told him he didn’t need to follow, turned around and headed back and TM may have come up from behind. We don’t know at this point. I think it is safe to say that we do know that TM was seen on top of GZ hitting him martial arts style after a heated exchange of words.
Mimi, i could see myself getting out and walking to look around the corner to see where he went but I would tend to peek, not let him know I’m following, being a very small woman. If he ran behind the homes he couldn’t drive to see where he went. That is a reasonable explanation as to why he got out of the truck in the first place.
ITA.
/balm
*/blam
Zuben, I just back thru all the results released, and I too find none for the 2 swabs taken from the skittles and the black flashlight. So IMHO at this time we dont know who the black flashlight belonged to. One piece of the puzzle not yet released.
ZUBEN, I totally agree and think it is reasonable to think that is what happen (getting out of truck to see) I had an experience the other night, lol up thread, I shared with JB. My neighbor, her dtr, my grandson and I. I called non emerg. They told me they were sending officers over. 3 cars ended up coming. While on the phone, the dispatcher asked, can you still see him, which way, all the same stuff as the dispatcher asked GZ. We watched til we couldnt see him anymore, was getting dark and he way down road. It was a weird situation. BUT if something were to happen after this incident and one of these homes had something done in the criminal sense, IF i saw the dude again, I cant tell you that I wouldnt get in my car and from a safe distance follow til PD showed up. NO I dont have a gun, and NO I wouldnt get out of my vehicle, but I would be looking out for myself and my neighbors. And I feel confident that my neighbors would do the same.
Loly, : “Everyone get’s upset when mentioned he wanted to be a police officer? Why?
Same with a judge?
What’s wrong with that?
His Dad was a judge, maybe wanted to be like him
He evidently did’t make it, maybe because of his record”
I dont know personally if he wanted to be a police officer or a judge, I do know that the incidents in his past were resolved, But it is a fact, that he had a good enough record to pass and get a concealed carry permit.
I dont care for Mark Nejame, but this is a very good article.
Mark states: ….From the first press reports, I believed the shooting was racially motivated. If so, life in prison would be wholly appropriate as a punishment upon conviction. However, research, investigation and learning the facts caused me to reverse this earlier opinion.
Snippets:
There’s a difference of opinion about whether racial profiling was actually involved, but a key question that is often overlooked is the distinction between profiling by a citizen and profiling by a member of law enforcement. That distinction is likely to be crucial in determining the direction the case may go.
……
Zimmerman was not a law enforcement agent. He was a civilian, operating under different legal standards than those applied to the police. Merely because he was a neighborhood watch captain does not attach law enforcement status to him.
It has been reported that he acquired a concealed weapon permit, which legally allowed him to conceal the gun that was used to shoot and kill Martin.
Hence, although Zimmerman was possibly negligent, irresponsible and exercised poor judgment, it was not illegal for him to follow Martin, carry a gun when doing so or even ignore the opinion of the civilian 911 dispatcher when advised, regarding his following Martin, “OK, we don’t need you to do that.”
The only legal relevance as to whether race was the determining factor in the following and killing of Martin was whether it goes to establish if Zimmerman exercised a “depraved mind” regarding the killing
This requisite depravity is a necessary element for second-degree murder in Florida, the crime for which Zimmerman has been charged. If racism or bigotry can be established as the basis for killing Martin, then a second-degree murder charge could be appropriate.
However, with the evidence that has emerged, especially that contained within the discovery documents released in recent days, proof of a racial motive concerning the shooting seems wholly lacking.
Even if a racial aspect was among the factors that led Zimmerman to be suspicious of Martin and follow him, the law regarding what a civilian may do when following another person was not necessarily broken.
A civilian standard of profiling is much different legally than that applied to a law enforcement officer. A civilian, as offensive as it may be, is allowed to personally act on biases or prejudices, whereas a law enforcement officer is prohibited from doing so
Barring new facts or possibly a more detailed analysis of Zimmerman’s previous calls, there doesn’t appear to be any evidence or support for the supposition that bigotry or prejudice played a role in Zimmerman’s shooting of Martin
Without establishing that the killing was racially motivated, any claim that Zimmerman committed second-degree murder in shooting Martin will not survive. Interestingly, the state in its charging affidavit simply claimed Zimmerman “profiled” Martin, not that he racially profiled him.
This allows the state to keep such a claim open-ended, likely knowing early on that it couldn’t sustain the burden of proving racial profiling. More and more, this case looks like it will be thrown out in criminal court and eventually be headed to civil court.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/30/opinion/nejame-zimmerman-racial-profiling/index.html?c=&page=1
sundancecracker says:
May 30, 2012 at 11:22 am
Yep. Sibilj is 100% on this one. Najame is up to the neck with Julison, and IMHO it was not mere coincidence that Najame “changed his tune” only after it was outed that Najame, Chairman of the Prostate Foundation, hired Julison as the Media/PR guy for the foundation.
Najame was all about that guilty Zimmerman beast, until the dots were connected between him and Ryan Julison, and Greg Martin, and….. and…… and don’t tell me that you can sit on a directors board with Pigford Greg Martin and NOT know Parks and Crump esq…. Daryl Parks is President of the ABA remember !!!
Kori Gonzalez@korig12 20 Apr 12
@jvelezmitchell wow Nejame is supposed to be an impartial CNN analyst. NOT!! Its obvious that he is friends with defense attorney!!
Mark NeJame@MarkNeJame
@korig12 actually friends w Natalie Jackson too who represents @TrayvonMartin family. Great person & atty. Fact r facts. Prosecution blew it
20 Apr 12 Reply
Hi Arkansasmimi,
I’m just checking in so I just have a minute. I want you to know, I don’t care what Talking Heads have to say about this case so I’m sorry but I’m not going to read what Mark Nejames or any other talking heads think. This is the reason I don’t blog hop on this topic.
I like to be true to myself and I feel I’m more than qualified to come to my own conclusions with information I learn from the documents and news reports. With that and my own gut instincts, I feel my opinion is just as viable as anyone else’s. Remember what MN had to say about the Anthony case?
No offense
Have a good evening, I’ll be back later.
TheJBMission
Hi Zuben,
True, GZ had just as much right to get out of his truck and walk the sidewalk as TM but what he didn’t have a right to do is harass TM by following him. In my opinion, and what I believe the jury will decide is that GZ imposed his presence onto TM and TM was standing his ground.
Remember as you pointed out after reading what TM’s girlfriend told LE. You said, that we really don’t know what was said. That’s true we don’t. What we do know is (from the bond hearing transcripts and Serino’s capias) that GZ did not inform TM that he was the self-imposed Neighborhood Watch Captain. In my opinion, the jury may come to the conclusion that it was Trayvon Martin who was standing his ground, not GZ.
You’re scenario may be correct. We don’t know what O’Mara will use as a defense. I guess since he doesn’t have the burden of proof, if he tells a good story, the jury might buy it. We didn’t see Baez’s defense coming either. LOL
In my gut, I don’t think Zimmerman would have gotten out of his truck if he didn’t have a gun. All I can say Zuben is ..you’re a lot braver than I am. lol
I would never leave the safety of my vehicle as Joe-Blow citizen without a gun to keep an eye on a “suspicious guy”. Now had this person just committed a murder or a rape, yes I would have with caution. It would be imperative to me that I help capture a rapist or murderer but not a “suspicious” person who’s walking the street at 7pm. It’s early. Maybe if its 1am? Now yes, he’s walking aroung my complex at this time of night. I’d definitely want to know what he’s up to.
But as “NWC”, GZ did his job. No further actions are needed but for some reason it was really important to him. When we hear him say, “these xxx-holes always get away”? That’s the reason. He probably felt foolish because he’s called before and by the time LE got there, poof the guy was gone. He felt like an idiot.
That’s what me thinks!
Someone up thread mentioned if Trayvon Martin wasn’t shot that night, if LE would have been called out because 2 men were fighting, they thought that only Trayvon would have been arrested. I thought about that too. I think that George Zimmerman would be arrested. And at best both men but I don’t think for one minute that TM would have went to jail alone.
jmho
Loly,
What I know about the flashlights, if you read the doc dump it describes 2 flashlights, one is a smaller one from Zim’s key chain, the other which is about 6 inches long is the mystery.
If you go back to listen to the bond hearing, it explains a lot of things. I have a feeling that much that was said there will be the State’s case.
Dang! After the defense put Zim on the stand, I thought it was opening day of the trial. LOL
Anyway, I suggest you listen to it. With what we know now, it’s really interesting.
Loly,
When you say aggressor, I think the written law will point to Zim as being the aggressor because he got out of his truck. It’s that simple.
Hi Blam,
How are you? I hate to sound dumb..but can you tell me what “ITA” means? LOL.. I’m just curious.
AKM,
I wonder if that Restoril he was taking could have something to do with his bad decision making. Maybe?
It doesn’t upset me that GZ wanted to be a cop or a judge. I just think it’s funny. He in my opinion would be a horrible candidate for either job.
He has no self control. Remember when this story first broke to the public? It was rumored that GZ didn’t make the cut when he applied to become a cop.
Now before you get excited, I didn’t say I believed it but I sure think it sounds likely. lol
He’s a perfect example of what a LEO shouldn’t be.
Ironically, he criticized Sanford PD after going on a ride-along. He bemoaned, “the officer even showed him where his favorite napping spot was” Hahaha..
Well, I wish he’d taken a nap on the evening of Feb 26th. It’s too bad he has a sleeping disorder.
JB, lol as i said I dont know if he wanted to be a cop or a judge. I was responding to a comment of lolys. lol
Yes!!!
Those that thought Zimmerman innocent of everything didn’t want to hear that he wanted to be a policeman or judge, that’s why he was called a wannabe cop.
JB,
And exactly right about him being the kind of cops we don’t want. Toatally oppsite.
We see them and it isn’t pretty!
I think that Zimmerman was the aggressor also.
All of these questions that we have is exactly why he should have been arrested
and since he wasn’t arrested (this I don’t know really) why did his wife bring his other clothes?
Ruben,
The 911 dispatcher said are you following him, Zimmerman said Yes, they said we don’t need you to do that? Those won’t orders maybe, then he should have said we suggest you get back in your vehicle? Zimmerman said OK and said not happy said these assholes always get away.
I don’t believe for one moment he turned and went to his truck. I thinks that he continued to follow him, then he’s not happy because he can’t find him, so how does that mean he was going back to his truck.
If the police had gotten there and Zimmerman wa in his truck, I would believe it.
He was not a happy camper and he wasn’t going to stop until he got him, and he did.
Police were there in one minute after.
I think Trayvon was walking towards his home unless he didn’t want this guy to follow him
into his home. He had no idea what this guy was going to do.
Zimmerman had a right to get out and walk too, but did he have a right to follow/intimidate someone? If I’m in my car and close to a police station. someone is following me, I can drive in there and tell them for my safety, yes, but they aren’t going to chase him down and arrest him
for following me.
The one being followed has no chance!
JB,
I think that I’ve listened to the bond hearings before.
I need to listen to them again. I wish that it had been the trial too. : )
I don’t want a long lingering trial like in the Casey trial.
Seems like I heard somewhere legit that they both belonged to Zimmerman.
You know, there were so many witnesses that called 911 but I can’t imagine
any of them leaving it there. Do you think that Zimmerman had one on his keys and the other one too?
I don’t listen to the talking heads either. I didn’t during Casey’s trial except for the ones
like In Session and of course on CNN when it was continued off of In Session.
You only listen to them because you have to, but all that they did was change it to the way that they wanted it to be.
Well, guess I better get my beauty rest! lol
G’night all!
Hello all,
Loly, I personally feel GZ had every right to be outside his vehicle, just like TM had the right
to walk around the complex…But there was some kind of suspicion as to why he needed
to call 911 that evening……
The evidence which will be used in court shows GZ as being battered, obviously TM
was doing the attacking……It’s not that hard, really….
Hope all is well
Loly,
If we agree that GZ had the right to stand outside his truck. Why was it okay for TM to attack GZ>?
There’s no evidence that says GZ was the one who was intimidating…..matter of fact it’s my
opinion that TM was the one… The photos, the neighbors, and the 911 call is proof that
GZ felt intimidated….If TM was the one who was, why didnt he call 911?
Until the trial, i’m on the fence, but leaning toward self defense…..BUT! since this case
was made into a political tug of war, I doubt he’ll receive a fair trial……MAYBE!
Remember:….Florida is a very important State for the election…….Just sayin
The neighbors, meaning there are witnessess that saw TM ontop of GZ. To clear up my last post…
Questions, questions, questions…
Page 26
Capias Request – page 26 Based on facts and circumstances Serino believes there is probable cause to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. HOMICIDE-NEGLIG MANSL-F.S.S. 782.07’1
Page 27 Capias Request, Inv. Christopher Serino
The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman. If Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of LE or conversely if he had identified himself as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party’s concern. There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter.
( 2 lines are redacted )
Attempts to locate additional witnesses have consisted of multiple canvasses of the neighborhood….
The 2 lines redacted must be the names of at least 2 good witnesses. Another redacted paragraph following the previous dates of suspicious persons reported by Zimmerman. They were all black.
Page 89 – Witness first hears loud voices, one was very dominant, then it stops, she begins to read, again hears loud voices and yelling for help. Person does not believe the yelping voice for help was the dominant, aggressive voice she heard in the first argument.
Person puts the phone by the open window so the 911 operator could hear the yelling for help.
After shot, she sees broad built man get up and walk 10 or 20 feet away from the other man as she referred to as a boy. The broad built man is standing by a small tree and puts his hand to his head. Then a man with a flashlight runs toward the broad built man to talk to him. Then another man ran up and cuffed him.
Questions, is the man with the flashlight a cop? Why is a 6 inch flashlight in evidence?? Who’s the dominant voice? Are there voice samples?
Page 125
Medical Examiner Report
Entrance Wound; perforations of pericardial sac, right ventricle of heart, right lower lobe of lung with bilateral, pleural hemorrhage.
Trayvon Martin died instantly.
TM dies instantly on top of GZ. How does TM end up on his stomach, face down, hands underneath him if he’s on top of GZ? 158lbs of dead weight is not easy to move. GZ would have to flip him. How would he land? On his back or on his stomach?
Good morning. Loly, you said they wouldn’t arrest someone for following and you are exactly right because it isn’t considered harassment, which would be against the law. If GZ was going to do something wrong he surely wouldn’t call LE to give them a heads up. He surely wouldn’t be as likely to go forward with anything illegal after ending the call with LE for the same reason.
JB, that was me and I don’t recall both people ever getting arrested unless they were drunk on a public street, them maybe they could get them both for drunk and disorderly or disturbing the peace. In a case similar to this one they would charge the aggressor with assault but what would the charge the other with? George Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and that hasn’t happened yet. I’m hearing a lot of speculation going on to back up asumptions. The simple fact is, there has been evidence in discovery that gives strong reasonable doubt that GZ attacked Martin.
I’m ashamed to say that my dad has hit my stepmom, maybe my mom too, I don’t know and can’t ask her. I confronted him about it when he had the nerve to claim he believes in and lives equal rights. He justified his actions for that particular altercation, saying she wouldn’t shut her mouth. The saddest part is, my step mom came to his defense saying it’s true, she wouldn’t shut up. Interstingly, she had a condition where the body attacks itself, an autoimmune disease they call Lupus, meaning wolf. The wolf is interesting because they live in packs and submit to the dominant alpha male. I guess she thought she had to submit and deserved the punishment when she didn’t. My point with this story is that no matter what my mom said, even if she said it while following him into the bedroom where he was going in refusing to talk through their problem, he had no right to hit her just like TM had no right to hit GZ because he was following him or asking him why he was in that private neighborhood. If a witness comes forward to show GZ hit him before witness John saw TM on top hitting him martial arts style then it could eliminate reasonable doubt that he is innocent. That hasn’t happened yet so I have to assume GZ and my stepmom innocent.
Good morning JB. I’m fine, thanks for asking. ITA means/stands for “In total agreement” or “I totally agree.”
/blam
=================================================================
Thanks Blam, I kind of thought that..but wasn’t sure. ITA = SS “Short & Sweet”
JB
My guess Crazy Lady,
He’d wound up on his back.
Good Morning Zuben,
I’m sorry to hear what your step-mom went through. It must have been hard for her and for you to witness it. Sadly what you described is classic behavior for the abuser and his victim. The abuser will convince the victim that it’s their fault. The same tactic is used on children. They believe they are worthless and deserve abuse.
As for TM & GZ..The problem with this case is we really don’t know who threw the first punch because Martin is dead. All we have is GZ’s word and not everyone believed him., especially Chris Serino. Since we haven’t read any of Zimmerman’s statements its hard to say right now which is typical in SYG cases and self-defense cases, one is dead and the last man standing sometimes tells a good story. And it may be true.
I expect at trial, a lot will have to do with GZ’s reputation and background. Who was he? Was he truthful? Was he fair? Did he use violence to get his way? So yes, this case could boil down to credibility but I’m hoping the forensics will do the talking or at least add to the State’s case.
Remember we haven’t seen a lab report on GZ’s jeans yet. It should be in the next doc dump.
I would suspect they are at least grass stained. I don’t recall what was found on TM’s jeans either or if they were tested. Not really sure though??? Thanks for sharing your story. I’m glad you had the chance to make your dad think about his actions too. Good for you.
As for who’s going to jail when there’s a fight in my neck of the woods..often it’s both parties but then again, most fights happen in bars and both are drunk.
And to add to my last sentence.. In this case,
it could have been construed by LE that when Zimmerman continued to follow Martin he became the agressor and George Zimmerman would have been arrested and Martin would not. In my gut, I think that would have happened if there wasn’t a gun involved and police were called in to break up a fight.
On Feb 26th, Zimmerman weighed 200 lbs, Martin is 5’11″ and weighed 158 lbs. That’s over a 40 lb difference in weight.
If I were to bet on who would win this fight, I would bet on Zimmerman. We all know GZ is not afraid of a fight. See arrest report.
Like I’ve said from day one, if Zimmerman wasn’t carrying a gun, he’d NEVER have gotten out of his SUV. He didn’t everything wrong that night…even calling 911. It was 7 pm. Not even after curfew.
Good morning Crazy Lady from NOLA and welcome to the discussion. Do you mind if I just call you NOLA? I don’t like to call anyone crazy, even if they are, but I’m sure you are not.
Yes, officer Serino did want him arrested but first, notice it is manslaughter he is asking for, not 2nd degree murder. Where in his probable cause does he show evidence of a depraved mind, required for 2nd degree murder. But even then, he is leaving out the fact that a witness saw TM beating GZ and doesn’t even report the same interview the same way in two different reports. I address this up thread. He isn’t very good at putting facts together in their entirety and doesn’t even explain how he came to the conclusion GZ didn’t try to explain why he wanted to know what he was doing there, unless it is included in the blacked out portion. Furthermore, I think he is showing his own prejudice by making a big issue out of the fact all the suspicious persons he reported were black but leaving out the fact that the robberies that were committed there where the suspect was seen, involved black males. The Capias issue, also linked below the article only has one count, 2nd degree murder so they have a great burden, that of proving a depraved mind that willfully murdered.
You bring up an interesting section on page 89. I wish we could hear a recording of TMs voice but having heard GZ’s quite a bit in 3 different settings, I am pretty sure the softer and higher pitched voice heard yelling for help is GZ. He doesn’t have what I would describe as a dominate male voice at all. It is soft and more effeminate rather than masculine sounding. Did anyone that saw that fight club video hear TM speak at all. It looks like that video must have been pulled because I’ve tried and tried to find it. Maybe it is going to be evidence as to what TM’s voice sounded like. I think, but don’t know for sure, that the black flashlight belongs to GZ and they took it into evidence due to suspected blood. I addressed this above because they took a swab from that and a belong of TM’s as if they think it is his. Both swabs are tagged together and we haven’t seen the lab results yet. The person with a flashlight the witness saw right after the shot was LE. Smith was there within one or two minutes.
Your question about how he feel face down if on top of Zimmerman is a good question that I’ve pondered. I think it is possible that GZ managed to get a hold of the gun while being hit, then fired and rolled over, out from under TM, as he hesitated, due to being shot. At that point, TM would not fall sideways if he still had the knee on the opposite side, firmly planted on the ground. He was taller than Zimmerman so would likely be straddled over the narrower part of GZ, possibly as low as the thighs. I think Zimmerman could roll out through one of Martin’s legs/knees, while the other knee would keep him upright until he collapsed. If he was found with his legs spread eagle, this is evidence what I’m picturing actually happened. Of course, we don’t know how his legs were laying so it is speculation at this point.
I haven’t listened to the whole bond hearing again yet but since you bring it up there are a couple of parts I found quite interesting.
Gilbreath went on to say that the evidence contradicted GZ saying his head was hit against the concrete but yet we say the injuries on his head in photographs taken by LE.
Loly, Omar pointed out before that the docs show that LE asked her to bring GZ a change of clothing because they were taking his into evidence. The evidence sheets in discovery also show each item of his clothing they confiscated and lab reports on the items too. If you haven’t read discovery, it is linked at the bottom of the article JB wrote above.
Quite often when any of my boys call, even my 18 year old, I have to think for a minute about who it is because most of them sound almost identical to their dad. So, I thought we might get an idea of what TM’s voice sounds like, at least the tone or depth of his voice, by hearing his male relatives.
Here is his dad but near the beginning you can also hear GZ as they play part of his phone call. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju3XIpipHBU&feature=related
Here is his brother and Gz’s brother http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKZdx6TZ1TI&feature=related
It might be interesting to listen to the Zimmerman voices, then the Martin voices, then compare to the cries for help in the 911 call. Of course, the voice is a little higher when crying out for help, usually, but you can still get a good idea from listening to the normal voice or that of the other male family members.
JB, I forgot to mention, Gilbreath said at the bond hearing that Zimmerman had 2 flashlights, the one on the keychain and another that was larger, about 6″ long. As I was listening too, I was reminded of the boy chasing his dog that got off the leash. A witness apparently said that he/she saw 2 people running by in the dark, down near where TM was staying. He said the witness was on the perimeter. What does perimeter mean, someone that lived on the end of the building? Could it be that one running was TM and the other the boy either walking or chasing his dog? Remember he said that before he caught the dog he heard arguing then when he caught his dog, he heard the shot.
One other thing, Gilbreath testified that Zimmerman said after the dispatcher told him he didn’t need to follow he went to look at a street sign and went back toward his truck. Gilbreath admitted he had no evidence to contradict that. I suspect he didn’t know the name of Twin Trees Ln or else he wasn’t sure if Retreat View Circle changed names as it went around the right angle curves like many 90° curve roads do. I looked at Google to see if I could see a road sign and it looks like there may be one at the curve on Twin Trees, across the street from the end of the building and where the walk goes back to the T. If so, this is also walking back toward his truck. If that was knocking on a door we heard then perhaps he was knocking on the back door of one of the homes to ask the name of the street so he could tell LE, no one answered so he headed back to the road and his truck. Recall that he couldn’t tell them exactly where he was, only near the clubhouse.
Good Morning!!
First of all Zuben I’m sorry that your stepmom and very sorry that she has Lupus. I know that your every day is not near normal and that you have your hands full, but yet you’re able to get away from it for a while and put up with the likes of someone like me.
I know, without a doubt, we all care and we see things differently. It isn’t a mind changing game.
We are serious, each one in what we think and I can appreciate that.
I don’t think in my lifetime, I’ve ever changed anyones mind and that is certainly no goal of mine.
If that was my goal, I would have learned long ago, that’s nothing to achieve. lol
I’m serious! I know that everyone on here has opinions and I know that they are serious
too.
I think if it had been total daylight and many more witnesses, they also would have seen things differently. As far though as the first punch goes, yeah that may say that was the instigator.
I don’t totally agree it has to be a punch, when someone follows you, it is harrassment and to me scarier than a punch.
In a case where you are all of your boys were being followed for no reason, wouldn’t you thin the person following you is the suspicious one?
I know this sounds crazy and of course I know Zimmerman could get out of the truck if he wanted to, but would he if he seriously thought someone was a threat to anyone?
Nola,
Same question here. The flashlight couldn’t be in evidence
if it belonged to a cop.
I believe it must have been Zimmerman’s, unless it was the guy that Zimmerman told to
call his wife.
Hello GasCan,
We don’t agree that Zimmerman ever just standing outside of his truck.
We agree that he had that right. Yes, anyone can follow who ever they want
to.
And I guess we agree that if Zimmerman wanted to kill Trayvon, he could if he chose to do so, but not without paying for it. That’s what I think!
And it’s good to see you again! : )
Hi loly,
I dont think he set out to kill anyone….Self defense is self defense. I dont know if he followed him, but I do know he has defensive wounds on his head and face….The rest I guess we’ll hear at trial….
GTSU TOO
Hi Loly,
I agree with you when you said
” In a case where you or all of your boys were being followed for no reason, wouldn’t you think the person following you is the suspicious one?”
Absolutely!
About Inv. Serino?? Did anyone else notice that he led witnesses in their interviews? In one interview he says, -> paraphrasing, “would it help you to know the shooter was the person screaming for help?”
I’m not happy about that.
That’s a leading statement based on something thats not proven, especially that early in the investigation. I notice the 911 operators did that too. Kind of cheesy to me.
Then..Serino writes a Request Capias to have Zim arrested on manslaughter. Whats up with that?
I’m beginning to think the SPD are known to be Keystone Cops and thats why no one has any confidence in them. Maybe that’s why ppl are predicting this case won’t go to trial. I’m wondering about that too.
I feel like Crazy Lady
“questions, questions and more questions.. “
Here’s another question. Page 110
Zimmerman’s clothes
FDLE Agency Description
Item # Exhibit #
12 DMS-16 Shirt from George Zimmerman
13 DMS- 19 Jacket and 2 quarters in a plastic bag represented as being from George Zimmerman
Page 111:
DMS-16
I counted 16 stains on Zimmerman’s shirt. Labeled (stains A, B, C, D, E, F, I, J, K, L, M, N, O and P) Excluded are Stains G and H. They indicated no presence of blood.
Page 111
stains A, B, C, D, E, F, I, J, K, L, M, N, O and P)
Not one of the stains were from TM according to the report. Where’s TM’s blood?
If Zimmerman is underneath Martin or even within a foot of his chest, I would think Zimmerman would have a lot of Martins blood on his shirt or jacket.
Page 111
DMS – 19 Jacket with bag of quarters. I counted 17 Stains of blood. Labeled (stains A, B, C, E, G, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, U, V, Z, and BB)
Page 113 – Jacket
Stain DMS-19N consist of mixed DNA. Stain N shows partial DNA belongs to Trayvon Martin
Described as “Minor DNA profile”
Maybe Stain N is a large stain? It would support Zimmerman being on the bottom when he shoots TM in the chest??? If not, forensics might tell a different story.. maybe both men were standing.
That would explain why Martin was lying in a prone position too. IMHO
In a case where you or all of your boys were being followed for no reason, wouldn’t you think the person following you is the suspicious one?”
Absolutely!
……………………….
Not when you are on “Watch”, as a neighborhood watch captain in a drug infested area……
Just my opinion
Hmmm, I wonder if they fought first, then GZ got up, then shot…..
I hope we’re all on the same page when we say that Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch captain. He wasn’t officially trained or certified by the Florida Neighborhood Watch Program. I believe this is why in the Capias, Serino refers to him as a citizen.
Loly, I can easily have my opinion change, i.e., I can change my mind because that is a chosen thought in the process of developement. It’s what I know that isn’t up for debate or change. Some things are borderline. I nearly know the evidence will show that George Zimmerman didn’t act with a depraved mind, was the one crying for help and acted in self defense. I fully know he took a beating. I am of the opinion that he had reason to believe TM fit the description of some that were committing crimes in the neighborhood and he hadn’t ever seen him there before so he looked out of place, giving him cause to keep an eye on him while waiting for LE to come check him out. If this opinion turns out to be fact then TM wasn’t being followed without reason (although the reason would have been put to rest) so GZ wouldn’t be acting suspicious.
You see, the way I see it, someone having a right to be somewhere doesn’t mean someone else doesn’t have a right to want to make sure they do belong there under certain circumstances. Having several break ins in this supposedly gated community provides the circumstance. I also think it is reasonable to not want to just walk up to someone you think could be a potential robber because they have been known to be dangerous when cornered, so it is reasonable that he would watch him report him, not approach him for conversation. The girlfriend is reporting TM initiated the coversation, thus approached him. Eye contact doesn’t qualify, IMO, for the definition of approaching or confronting. Gilbreath uses the word more loosly than I would.
Yes, JB, I notice that. I don’t have much more respect for Serino than I do for Melich. I suspect he makes it up as he goes and is sloppy. But that is only a loosely held opinion at this point. I’d have to see all that is blacked out and maybe a couple of more cases he handled to form a firm opinion or acquire full blown knowledge. I think you’ll have to join your visitor in NOLA because I have a feeling we won’t get all the discovery like in the Anthony case so questions will linger for a while.
JB, did you notice the EMT report at the end of the discovery says tramautic injury and “struck by blunt/thrown object” as cause of injury? Gilbreath was saying he didn’t believe his head was hit repeatedly on the concrete and the crescent shaped abrasion looks like it could be from something else.
The volunteer program coordinator from the Sanford police wrote him emails and treated him like a neighborhood watch person. She even printed contact cards with his name and number on them to hand out at a community meeting. So I don’t get your point. My area doesn’t have any official program or certification. It is all volunteer so I don’t see that as a problem. His neighborhood and even the police accepted him as a neighborhood watchman and he was the contact person listed in the newsletter. Our whole fire department is volunteer? I would expect them to have some training though, for their own safety.
Yes, JB agreed….
If anything perhaps the program should be re-evaluated…..And perhaps the Sanford Police Department…..
GasCan,
IF he were the “WATCH” neighborhood, when Trayvon asked him why he was following him, he would have just said I’m the neighborhood watchman.
If Trayvon would have known he was the “WATCH” man, by wearing a badge or uniform, Trayvon would have known.
Why should it be ok for Zimmerman to follow Trayvon without him knowing who he was and not think Trayvon should be concerned who was follwing him?
BTW, remember Zimmerman jumped an under cover policeman, he said he would have never jumped an officer IF he knew hewas an officer.
Same goes for Trayvon. Zimmerman was going slow following Trayvon in his truck, then gets out and follows him. Didn’t Trayvon have the right when almost home to at least ask him why he was following him?
Maybe Trayvon was also concerned about break-ins and didn’t want this guy to follow him to his home. If he had just said I’m the watchman, that seems like something that would make sense.
Instead he says what are you doing here.
If Zimmerman had a right to be there so did Trayvon!
If you were Trayvon and didn’t know what to do, wouldn’t your last thought be to ask him why he was following you. It would be for me.
If I got what are you doing here?
At this point Zimmerman admitted he WAS following him for no reason, because he didn’t even have a reason.
Other than to say what are you doing here?
Maybe they were standing up.
When they arrived at the police station, Zimmerman looke a lot different then in those last pictures we’ve seen.
Besides they’s said a cut on Trayvon’s finger and bruises on his knuckles.
If that’s the only way Zimmerman knows what to do in a fight , especially when he instigates it, he shouldn’t have a gun.
Hello Everybody,
http://bcclist.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-timing-comment-from-jim.pdf
Interesting theory combining phone calls of GZ and DeeDee, the g/f who was talking with TM
If anyone has a few minutes and is interested in reading an excellent theory, please check this out.
I’m awe struck and almost cried.
Loly,
If I were TM I would’ve called 911….
Last paragraph I have no clue what you are talking about….LOL…..you make me laugh tho Loly,,,hehe
JB, I just read the link…
Gets one thinking for sure……
Sad accident all the way around…..
Loly said,
BTW, remember Zimmerman jumped an under cover policeman, he said he would have never jumped an officer IF he knew he was an officer.
Very good point.
MoneyBagsGeorge,
It really is sad. I’m glad you read it.
Just a minute, GasCan,
I have to check out what I said that you have no clue what I’m talking about. LMAO!!
My husband calls me a Rebel Without A Clue!! : )
Let me check and see. Be right back!
See if I can explain it.
OK, I see!!!
Here I’m going to try.
Remember the saying, if someone got beat up that bad, “God I’d hate to see what the other guy looked like”. Trayvon had bruises on his knuckles and a cut on his finger. Thay’s it. But, it was the gun that killed him.
Now was that clearer!!!! : )
I know GasCan, I missed you, you make me laugh too!
Yeah, you and me would call 911, if I thought about it. But, I don’t know about if I would have thought about it at 17.
Like my husband always says, at thoses ages you feel like life will last forever.
You now what I mean?
If you couldn’t understand my last post, you’re probaly really messed up now. LOL
I mean I am! : )
JB,
I wish Zimmerman had of remembered that mitake he made.
JB,
9:54,
I read that artical just now. She said the word I was trying to say about when you’re younger, you think you’re immortal. That’s the way I was trying to describe Trayvon and kids his age. I wish that I could still think that way. : )
She has really put a lot of thought into the whole tragedy, hasn’t she?
I guess the moral of it is like you’ve said miscommunication.
I agree with you and GasCan.
Makes you think!!
So very sad!
Don’t you just wish that you could change things? I know we all do!
G’Night! everyone!
Loly,
Okay, I think I get it…..TY for explaining…..Guess my mind is going too, as well as my eyesight and hearing…ha.
WESH has the hearing today live stream right now
Zimmermans bond revolked…
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-01/zimmerman-trayvon-martin/55331072/1..
God forbid.
Maybe John Edwards can give him
A few pointers.
Did anyone watch the hearing? What code did they speak, proving that both GZ and his wife knew how much money was in the paypal account before the bond hearing? It was very soon after that, O’Mara brought the money to the court’s attention.
JB, where is the author getting that a witness saw GZ patting TM down after the shooting? The only thing close is the witness on page 102 that says he went outside, asked what’s going on, was told to call the police then said could not tell if he was trying to find something in his (own) pockets. He stood up, walked away a couple of steps, put his hands on his head and walked back to TM on the ground then started to walk toward the road. He was probably looking for his phone, it wasn’t there, thus telling the witness to call the police. I also don’t believe TM could be holding GZ’s arm at bay holding a gun while hitting him MAS as the other witness saw. I can agree though that both may have thought the other was a bad guy. Is it factual that TM said “You got me”? Where did that come from?
http://patdollard.com/2012/06/breaking-judge-revokes-zimmermans-bail-orders-him-back-to-jail-within-48-hours/
GZ Bond Revoked!! Friday, June 01, 2012
The judge’s move comes after prosecutors filed a motion requesting to revoke his bond on Friday, saying Zimmerman misled the court about his finances and his possession of a second passport, which he acquired two weeks after he shot unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin during an altercation.
Does anyone have a video link for today’s hearing? In a snippet of the video, Judge Lester hinted that the prosecutors might go after Mrs. Zimmerman.
Zuben,
I didn’t say Jim’s theory was factual but IMO its the best theory I read so far. It makes the most sense to me.
When Jim mentions that GZ touched TM after shooting him, I recall reading that too. Now where, I don’t remember. I think Jim lives in Florida. Naturally the local media would have more indepth coverage of the case so maybe he heard it there. We’ll just have to wait and see at trial what can be proven and what can’t but I still think his scenario is very believable. I think he did an excellent job.
As for today’s breaking news.. I’m not surprised. I’m not shocked that GZ would have the audacity to apply for a passport replacement while he’s out on bond for 2nd degree murder. I don’t think O’Mara knew he did that, nor would he approve of such an assinine thing. lol
As I said early on, if GZ just lets O’Mara do his magic, he’ll probably walk away a free man. LOL
Zuben asked:
Is it factual that TM said “You got me”? Where did that come from?
Zuben, those were the words from one of the witnesses. I know because I read it too. Of course, as we all know, everything the witnesses say isn’t always a fact. But absolutely not, Jim did not make that up. He read it somewhere too. Maybe I’ll ask him. He’ll probably know.
But Zuben, you are asking good questions.
Hmm.. In 48 hours a lot can happen. Maybe they should put him on suicide watch.
BTW, there was a very recent news report that Zimmerman was averaging $1,000 a day on his website.
Well, JB, we’ve read lots of things, much of it outright lies and misinformation. I’ll stick with the discovery and video of the horse’s mouth, thank you.
The motion to revoke bond: http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2012/06/01/MotionToRevokeBond.pdf
Part of the bond hearing transcript: http://www.clickorlando.com/blob/view/-/14428812/data/1/-/jcpb1p/-/Zimmerman-hearing-transcript.pdf O’Mara turns over the passport telling them it is due to expire in May.
O’Mara after the hearning: http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/06/01/attorney-mark-omara-spoke-out-after-judge-revokes-george-zimmermans-bond/
Now, only reading these docs it sounds like Zimmerman may have lied. But I’ll wait to here them at the next hearing. SZ says about the passport, “I have one for you in the safety deposit box…for you…”, written in the motion just like that. So was she saying I have the passport in the safety deposit box for you to turn in to the court? GZ saying, ok, you hold on to that does sound incriminating but only part of the conversation is in the motion and we don’t know where each passport was at and if he was aware of both copies. The money situation sounds like they were hoping to get enough through paypal to pay the whole bond so his parents woudn’t need to mortgage their house. The fact is neither of them had an income at that time, to this day. It sounds like the prosecutor is much like Ashton and Burdick, upset there are donations coming in to an indigent person. He gets paid, why shouldn’t O’Mara get paid too?
snipped from
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-bond-revoked-190108284.html
HUH?? Now I’m really confused. This is why I need to watch the bond hearing video myself.
Oh Thank You Zuben!
I was looking for the motion.. Yes, I’d rather get see it from a reliable source too.
Believe me, lol
Look whats being reported on the passport matter.. Geesh.
I hope by the end of the weekend I’ll be able to watch the entire hearing myself. Relying on news reports isn’t getting it for me either.
JB, I’d appreciate if you could point me to the page number because I’ve read through the statments several times and haven’t read, “You got me.” in any of them. Several heard help. One heard the neigbor ask if he was alright and the reply, call 911. One heard, “I’ve got a gun, I’ve got a gun. Take my gun from me.” That might be GZ talking to the 1st responder, Smith. Now, this last one is according to Serino. I don’t see that hand written statement.
I googled to see where this rumor may have started. I found this cbs video stating sources close to the investigation (their favorite phrase) say before TM died he either said you got me or its over. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlOw10koQZw I suspect their inside source could be Tracy Martin or the mom, based on this.
(emphasis mine) http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403 Please consider that this may be part of their campaign speech to get him judged guilty through the media. Do you really think LE would tell Tracy Martin details of what is contained in Zimmerman’s statement? Maybe but they aren’t supposed to.
Here’s another one.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/19/new-account-zimmerman-told-cops-trayvon-s-last-words-were-okay-you-got-it.html Here’s another one, again saying Tracy Martin got this from LE. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/02/us/the-events-leading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html The same thing is repeated at many other sites. That’s why I haven’t heard it before. I do my best to zone out on and avoid gossip that hasn’t come from discovery or the major players. Otherwise it’s just too easy to believe something is fact that hasn’t been substantiated.
Zuben,
I just read the motion. This what I read on Page 2 (roughly)
So GZ’s passport (# 301813125) is allegedly lost or stolen in mid-March 2004, so he applies for another one. On March 26, 2004 he subsequently gets another passport. This passport (# 017355779) is valid till 2014.
Page 2
04/17/2012, phone call from Seminole jail with wife Shelly.
At approx. 7 minutes into call..
GZ: Do you know what? I think my passport is in that bag.
SZ: I have one for you in the safety deposit box..
GZ: Ok, you hold onto that.
SZ: For you…
Like you, I don’t see the “code” speak either. Of course we only have pieces of the convo taken out of context. So it’s hard for me to decide if they were being clever and playing games or not.
It would help to see the financial records too to see when deposits were made and to what acct.
From the small part of the hearing that I was able to find, Judge Lester is not too happy. There won’t be a bond for George Zimmerman now.
That statement “You got me” has been repeated in 3 blogs that I’ve read. Maybe it came from Anderson Cooper’s interview with a school teacher who is one of the witnesses.
Not sure. But I’m sure it’s not just me and Jim who heard it. And I didn’t know about this theory until yesterday.. so it’s out there somewhere.
Fact or Fiction??? Who knows?? It seems most of the evidence in this case is based on witness testimony so its just a matter of personal preference which witness you want to believe.
I’m still stuck on the neighbor that lady saw. Who is that?
Anyway, it’s not a big deal in the grand scheme of things but when put in context in the theory Jim layed out, it works. I’m sure anybody could line evidence and make it look like anything they want.
lol
I’ve seen it done in several murder trials. The investigators and prosecutors think up a theory and then they make up scenarios where it fits to their liking.
But one thing I know for sure, I’ve heard the same rumor/fact that Jim did. If the complete GSR report is more conclusive than it is today,” 0.5 centimeter to 1 meter” than that wouldn’t support Zims claim.. LOL But again.. We don’t know about that either.
Geesh. Sometimes I wonder why I even try to figure out this case… LOL
I’ll be back later. If you or anyone finds the video of today’s hearing, please post it. I hate wasting my time and energy reading these stupid news reports.
TIA
ooops, I forgot the most important part.. Yes, it’s in the Reuter’s report. Maybe that’s where I first heard it because I remember posting a Reuter’s link on the other thread. It might have been that one??
I can’t find the raw video for the hearing. I found this video introducing the new attorney to the team and some more comment on the hearing yesterday by O’Mara. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcUTee13Ryo&feature=related At this point, my opinion is they didn’t spend any of that money and may not have thought of it as theirs to spend for anything other than the legal matters. They may not have thought of it as their assets. Surely his wife didn’t look at it as her assets when answering the question. I’d have to see the bank statement, not just the ending balance because it may be that on that date there was less than $9. It was brought to O’Mara’s attention as soon as there was money there and it was sent directly to him, not spent by either of them.
Bond is simply a loan the state gets to use while the person is tried. If they are found not guilty it is returned. Of course, if they can get it revoked, they get to keep it, right? As for the passport, he has been out of jail for quite some time, enough to abscond if he wanted to and he’s still here. So I suspect that the prosecutor wanted some easy cash for the state of Florida. I have to admit, I’m having to work extra hard to stay objective about this prosecutor. After I saw what Ashton and Burdick were capable of and the fact that this guy keeps reminding me of Dr. Phil, it’s really hard.
JB, I think it is pretty clear the story about you got me came from Tracy Martin and he said LE told him that. Maybe true, maybe not. It kind of sounds like it is out of one of those ol West movies. Do you think getting shot as he did would allow him to speak at all? It went straight into his heart and lung. Regarding the daily cash flow coming into Z’s defense fund, do you really think O’Mara is telling media what is coming in? I think someone is talking out of school and we know how rumors go.
When witness statements contradict each other in any way, the logical thing to do is to see what matches in most accounts and use the evidence to see which other parts are most likely and fit the reasonable doubt standard. I think any jury, with the statements we’ve seen so far will agree that Zimmerman was on the bottom of the fight yelling help and told at least one witness to call the police. They won’t even need to debate anything else once they hear the autopsy report and forensics, unless the state has a star witness they’ve hidden so far, one that says he came up to TM and hit him first. Looking at the timing given to us by all the phone calls it seems reasonable to me that TM ran around the corner, down to the end of the first building and hid between the two buildings. I think that GZ also went around the corner, didn’t see him and began to knock on a couple of doors to try to find out the address to give to LE. That would put him down about where the fight took place. I think as he began to walk back toward his car TM came out from between the buildings, up behind him and confronted him after telling his friend he wasn’t going to run. I also believe that Zimmerman asking what he was doing there in answer to his asking why he’s following, was his answer. He was following because he wanted to know why he was there. Sometimes people answer a question with a question.
Omara was asked about how much money they’ve collected. He said 155 then another 30. So, the jail conversation was saying that at that time they had 155 total they could get their hands on. GZ says if its 150 pay the whole thing, if more than that pay 15 which is 10%. It is likely that O’Mara told him $150,000 would be a resonable bond they could expect so he was assessing if they had it or not. All they had at that time was enough to pay a reasonable bond so I don’t see how they are lying about having assets above and beyond what was already designated at that time. If 150,000 is in their accounts and that is owed for bond, they have 0 assets. They didn’t even have extra to pay O’Mara anything. Did they end up paying the bond outright or only 10%? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFj00Y3t4rM&feature=related This video also has the Martin attorney talking, saying he never should have been allowed out to begin with. Is it usual for there to be no bond in this type of case?
Good Morning Zuben,
I understand what you mean, I read part of the transcipt for the April bond hearing and it seems Shelly told the court she didn’t know much about the PayPal, that her BIL knew. That’ll probably keep SPD from going after her.
The prosecutor does remind me of Dr Phil. LOL Is it the voice or the hair?
I looked for the video too..but nothing on YouTube yet.
Right off the top of my head, IIRC the State wanted the bond set for $1million. So you do the math. Isn’t $150,000, 15% ?
Okay, now I’ll check out your links. bbl
They don’t ask for 15%.They ask 10%, which would be 100,000, if bond was 1M. Maybe I’m not understanding the converstation they had right. GZ said, “If the bond is more than 15, pay 15 or (15,000 would be 10% of 150,000) if more than 15 pay 10% to the bondsman. SZ goes onto say, “You don’t want me to pay $100? That’s what it’s for.” GZ says he doesn’t know. He is probably thinking he will have to have some money to relocate, pay for a place to stay plus the GPS, which isn’t cheap. So, perhaps he means if bond is 150,000 the 10% out of the paypal funds. If over 150,000 then use a bondsman. His wife then goes on to say, I think, doesn’t he want her to pay the 10% even if it turns out to be what the prosecutor was asking, 1M, instead of using the bondsman? This is likely what she means because at that point they did have 100,000 in the paypal account. He says let him think about it, likely because he is assessing what expenses will be with GPS and all. If I’m right I don’t think they really lied and it explains O’Mara not acting like he doubts it will all get cleared up during the press converence.
I wonder if anyone got the other things that were attached to the motion. There should be bank statement and audio of the calls.
I don’t know how long the hearing was but here’s over a half hour of what news13 carried live. I found it here: http://theconservativetreehouse.com/ [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTTcFkRPYh8?feature=player_embedded&w=640&h=360%5D
Wow! Thanks Zuben, I’m going to check it out now.
Zuben,
Now unless Zim hands over this one, I don’t think Judge Lester is going to budge on his “no bond status” that he declared yesterday. Jmo
Watched the video introducing Zims new attorney. Sad to say, that due to greed, and the fact that Zim is collecting close to $1,000 a day now from a PayPal acct., I wouldn’t be surprised if he attracts 4 new attorneys.
I just went back to read the Revoke Motion, trying to get an idea of what’s the dealio with the passport.
It seems that in mid-March 2004, he reported his passport lost or stolen, so he applied for a new one. But Lo & Behold, while he was in jail, Shelly tells him she has his passport in a safety deposit box and he tells her to hold onto it.
When he attends the April bond hearing, O’Mara proudly hands over Zim’s passport seeming like Zim is being forthright and truthful, but somehow, instead of Zim handing over the replaced one, the one that expires in March 2014, he gives the court the one he “supposedly” lost that expires in May 2012. Hmmm..
Which means that there’s a possibility that Zim has another passport in his possession.
4/12 $44.46 Shelley deposits in Georges acct.
That looks like GZ telling Shelly how to get the money out of the PayPal acct. that his brother Michael set up. She’ll need this information.
4/15
Definitely “code talk”. We know they aren’t talking about wheeling and dealing $10 from bank to bank. Wow, these people are rolling dough now. Something is wrong with this picture.
4/16
Ok, now I’m angry. This hearing was scheduled for the media to object to the withholding of discovery from the public. Did you all know that the date of service on this motion was yesterday, June 1. It was emailed to O’Mara and the judge at 8:30 am. He sprung this on him without notice or a chance to prepare properly for the hearing. Zimmerman turned over the 2nd passport to O’Mara 2 weeks ago. What BS. O’Mara filed docs with the court. Copy of fedex receipt showing April 27 received check for all the money and the passport. They found it while packing and moving to their new location and handed it right over to his attorney. Hasn’t the SA ever lost anything before and not found it until moving or a very thorough cleaning? Geesh. O’Mara drafted a motion the next day about that but never got it filed. He filed that also with the court yesterday and had turned it in. The judge had no problem with the passport issue. They didn’t use the money during the days following the bond hearing even though they had enough to pay it in full. He used 5000 of that money to get bail after family made efforts to get money from home equity, parents and grandparent. He still has a balance due. He has no access to that money.
I say if this is what the state needs to do to win their case they don’t have a case, just as in the Anthony trial. Dirty tactics show weakness.
PS: you can see here, http://cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2012/06/FloridavZimmerman-motion-to-revoke-bond-0601.pdf that the motion to revoke bond was not filed until 12:03 pm yesterday then faxed from epost at 1:27pm, before the hearing started. E Post is listed as a shipping company in Sanford. Huh??? Maybe a reporter from news13 stopped in there to fax it to the boss?
G’morning everyone!
Gascan,Some times it’s best for me not to try and explain. LOL
It just get’s more confusing! : )
JB,
During the bond hearing the officer that testified, said that the two flashlights
were Zimmerman’s. I knew that I had heard it from a reliable sourse. : )
I’ve got aot of catching up to do. I totally was out yesterday. lol
I know Gascan can relate!!! : )
JB,
I knew that I had heard “you Got Me”. It was a recounting to Tracy Martin about what Zimmerman told him that happened.
I guess Tracy will testify to what the police told him about the murder in the trial.
I don’t know if it was said to anyone else. I’m probably way behind.
Anyway this is all that I know.
JB,
Let me make this clearer!
When the police was telling Tracy , Trayvon’s Dad why his son was murdered, that was what the police told him that Zimmerman had told them.
That wasn’t very clear in my above statement. : /
Hi Lolypop,
Yes, I think that’s where I read it from too. “You got me” must have come from Trayvon’s dad, like you said. And he heard that from one of the officers.
Well, what do you think about Zimmerman going back to jail? Hi bond was revoked because the State said he
wasWASN’T being truthful about his finances at the bond hearing. Remember that PayPal acct his brother Michael set up? It seems like at the time of the April 20th bond hearing, there was $135,000 in that acct. So, GZ has to turn himself in by 3pm tomorrow.I was just checking in to see if he checked in a day early. LOL, as IF he’d volunteer an extra day in the clinker. lol
JB,
They weren’t truthful to the judge.
I think that at the beginning when the bond was set at $150,000 the judge was being as fair as he thought it was, BUT, I don’t think that Zimmerman or his lawyer were being honest with him.
He told Zimmerman to be back in jail in 48 hours, it’s a wonder that he didn’t make it 24.
It seemslike they were all lying. Any judge doesn’t take too kindly to that.
He didn’t say come back for another bond hearing, he just said NO BOND!
I don’t understand why they had to lie, I thought he would get out that night anyway, did you?
No, I don’t think he would just offer another night without freedom!
What detectives told Trayvon’s father::
: JB, Here’s where it is about what the detectives told Trayvon’s Dad what Zimmerman said;
Detectives gave Tracy Martin, Trayvon’s father, an account of the events that Mr. Martin finds hard to believe. Trayvon’s father, Tracy Martin, was told that Trayvon approached Mr. Zimmerman
twice. First, he walked up to Mr. Zimmerman’s vehicle and asked why he was following him. Mr. Zimmerman denied following him. Trayvon walked away, and Mr. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle. Trayvon then approached him from behind a building and said, “What’s your problem, homie?” Mr. Zimmerman said he did not have a problem, and Trayvon attacked him. Trayvon hit Mr. Zimmerman and pinned him to the ground. Mr. Zimmerman pulled his gun as he was being beat and fired one shot. “You got me,” Trayvon said, falling back
Not gonna happen Loly. Tracy Martin can’t testify to what LE told him Zimmerman said. That’s 3rd party hearsay. As it stands, we only have news reporters saying Tracy Martin told them that, again, hearsay.
In looking at this motion again, I think the SA, BDLR, is not being quite honest himself. He cut out the most important part of the bond hearing, concerning the paypal funds. He asked her if she knew how much was in there, she said no, told him that she hasn’t seen her husband since this all went down and that the brother in law was the one that had the information about the paypal account. He didn’t bother to get him on the phone, now did he? Maybe there is more to this story. None of the jail calls that he quoted mentioned a paypal account at all, only the credit union was mentioned. He said by the end of April there was a certain balance in the account but what was the balance on April 20? It takes a minimum of 3 days to get money from paypal to any bank account and sometimes 6.
O’Mara was given no time to prepare to address this motion (only sprung on him at 8:30 am via email) and he said they plan to come back to court. The judge also invited that so I’m sure there will be an explanation and asking for bond again real soon. Did you notice the judge said he was suprised that the state hadn’t taken legal action against SZ? If they were telling the truth, they are obligated to take legal action but they didn’t and dodged the question by reporters. So, why would they not be submitting a capias against her?
They probably just told Mr. Martin that. I’ve heard that they can , even lie in the interagation.
When asked how he learned about it, he’s said the same thing whether it’s used in court or not.
But, anything that the officers told Mr. Martin about his son’s death can’t be used?
The judge didn’t blame his Zimmerman’s wife or his lawyer.
He more or less said to Zimmerman you just sit there and didn’t correct either one..
I really don’t know anything about bonding. IMO, it shouldn’t be a percentage of what they say, but what it actually is. Like when you buy a car, if it says sticker price, you pay it.
They know most people aren’t going to be able to pay $1,000,000 for bond and that isn’t actually what they pay.
Hi Zuben,
Yes, that’s right Zuben. I noticed that too. I’d hope Judge Lester referred to the actual bond transcript before he made his decision because the prosecutor didn’t quote it correctly in the motion but if you noticed Zuben, the motion referred to other pages so maybe the info is there??
I don’t have alot of faith so far in Seminole County either.
From what I’ve seen so far, I find the behavior of Prosecutor Bernie De la Rionda and Judge Lester sort of laid back. I think that they are going to have to fight for this case, not the usual “Let’s Make Deal” that they’re accustomed to. YKWIM..
Speaking of Bernie… he’s a bit of hot head to me and O’Mara seems calm and cool, don’t you think? So I have no idea what’s going to happen next year when this case goes to trial.
I want to hear those phone calls sooooo bad!! )
I really don’t.
As far as the PayPal account, I’ll assume that the DA has financial records of the account to prove exactly what was assessible at the time of the jail house phone calls. If not, rest assured O’Mara will set the record straight. He’s good.
(
@Loly,
If I’m not mistaken, if the detective was reading it off of one of Zimmerman statements, it could come out at trial but..
some legal talking heads are now saying if O’Mara doesn’t use SYG as a defense. If he uses self-defense, there’s a possibility that Zims confession won’t be used ..Something about a Miranda. LOL
Legally there’s a lot of hurdles for the State.
So we shall see…
In my opinion from bits and pieces I’ve gathered, GZ doesn’t have a defense but that’s just me.
Well Ladies, I guess the Media will put on a BIG SHOW for us tomorrow when Zimmerman turns himself in.
What would be funny is if they set up all of those barricades near the jail and nobody came. hahaha..
Yes JB,
I would get a kick out of it myself! lol
Speaking of LOL, I was talking to my husband about the bond issue.
He explained to me that whoever put up the $15,000, if Zimmerman skipped bail then they would have to pay the full $150,000 bond, not like buying a car. : /
Anyway I learned something new today.: )
Gee like you said JB, why even get involved??
It’s so draining!!
Why do we do this to ourselves?
It’s not like we don’t have a choice! geesh is right! : )
Good morning. Loly, the judge told the SA he was surprised that he hasn’t taken legal action to prosecute SZ and he could still do that in the future. He was encouraging him to go after her because he was claiming she violate the law. So again, why hasn’t he? It’s his obligation. He was sure enough that she broke the law that he got her husband’s bond revoked so he should be sure enough to get a conviction against her. We’ll see.
JB, I highly doubt that Lester had time to look at anything other than the motion and maybe the transcript excerpt emailed to him that day. Most judges have more than one hearing in a day and he just got it that morning. I learned something today while googling stand your ground vs simple self defense. The stand your ground law gives immunity from criminal and civil prosecution, if proven. It is the burden of the defendant to prove at the pretrial stage rather than the prosecution having the burden of proof, but it allows for a pretrial motion that if granted, bars any type of prosecution. Apparently, in the beginning, this is why no arrest was made, they saw no probable cause based on the law. Now, even if the judge denies this, if I understand it correctly, the same claim can be presented to the jury, with the statutory immunity again attached. If they agree, there still can be no civil case against him. Maybe they could try to go after the home owners association, I don’t know.
While I was searching I ran across some law professional blogs and articles and it seems they are all saying the same thing I have, that there was no probable cause shown for 2nd degree murder. The word depraved mind is in the capias but nothing to back it up. I don’t get into all that left/right political siding, being rather ambidextrous, myself, so please ignore the name of this website. I wanted to share because it has attorney’s writing and participating and mentions a current case in Florida, further along that this one, that involves this law and a ruling. http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/4/12/194725/132
Quotes from Judge Milton Hirsch’s Order in State v. Quentin Wyche denying motion to
dismiss on Stand Your Ground Immunity, Feb. 2012 http://www.talkleft.com/legal/quentinquotes.pdf
Assuming that a fractured bone and 2 cuts to the back of the head coming from blunt force are judged as threat of great bodily harm or death, It looks to me like the key evidence could possibly be the call Zimmerman made to the dispatcher. I suspect the SA is basing his claim on the fact that GZ got out of his truck and pursued TM. it can be heard in the call that he was pursuing but then the sound of the wind stopped and immediately after that, knocking was heard several times. I really think he is knocking on doors, not pursuing TM any longer. If even one person substantiates that and no witness says they saw GZ walk up to TM after GZ lost he will be immune from prosecution because it looks like the only other evidence supports TM being the aggressor. Even the friend said she heard TM address GZ first. Now, if
I found the full video where Crump is playing a recording from this girlfriend. It sounds so edited to me. I even here a sound like hitting fast forward. What do you all think? http://www.nbcmiami.com/video/#!/on-air/as-seen-on/Trayvon-Martin-Family-Attorney–Phone-Call-Contradicts-Shooters-Claim/143595206
I’ll be back with what I think will throw the girldfriend account out.
Besides the fact it took 3 weeks for the Martin family attorney to come forward with this new witness, claiming it took dad that long to notice this call on TM’s phone records, there is a problem with the timing. He claims that her last answered call to him was at 7:12 pm and lasted 4 minutes, which would extend to at least 7:16. (see TM phone record http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/call+log.pdf ) The seconds aren’t shown on this version of the phone records so it could have been anywhere between 7:12 and 7:12:59. The dispatcher call log (see http://i.imgur.com/G9zy5.jpg ) shows that GZ’s call connected at 7:09:34, between 2’26” and 3′ 25” before this alleged call from the girlfriend began. The dispatcher notes that subject is running toward back entrance at 7:11:59 which is 2’25” into the call which is at least 1 second before the GF connects with TM for the last time for this 4 minute call. How could all that conversation have taken place before she heard TM starting to walk fast or run? She claimed that after she heard what she interprets as TM getting shoved or knocked down, the phone went dead and there was no answer when she tried to call him back again. again. There isn’t a call shown after that until March 2, a 911 call. Who is calling 911 5 days later, a day before the funeral? Police took his phone into evidence. We heard on one 911 call, quite a bit of time with cries for help before the shot, which occurred between 7:16 and 7:17. It is impossible for this 4 minute call not to have overlapped the cries for help and gunshot.
Now, if this isn’t enough, notice that it says, “Welcome tracy” on the bottom of page 3 along with number of lines, 4 so who knows who’s calls these are they are claiming to be between the girlfriend and TM at that time. And if that still isn’t enough, after I went to all this trouble, I noticed on page 5, near the bottom it says that all calls correspond to Pacific Standard Time. That is 3 hours earlier than Florida, EST. So this is a bunch of BS, a web spun by Crum and the Martin family to catch their prey, the blood thirsty media and civil rights protestors. This alleged call from a girlfriend to TM was made at 4:12 in the afternoon, EST. The only activity around the time of the shooting was an incoming text at 4:08pm PST which would be 7:08 and it looks like that text was returned with a call lasting 48 minutes, initiated at 4:28pm PST, 7:28pm EST, about 12 minutes after TM was dead. If the dad was at dinner with his girlfriend it was likely a brother on his phone.
I think the star witness is out of the picture. I also can say with relative certainty that Crump and the Martins are liars. One alternative is they are completely innocent and some 16 year old tricked them. But that makes no sense at all because if she wanted attention she is doing a real good job of avoiding media attention.
Zuben YOU NAILED IT GIRL!!!! I TOTALLY AGREE! Hoping your having an awesome day! Be back later.
Thanks, Mimi. Well, I see that GZ made it back safe and sound as of 1:45 today. I got curious as to how the media is reporting this and see global grind shows up in google with George Zimmerman Back To Jail Over 2nd Passport? (DETAILS … Unbelievable I see he shaved. http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/6/3/george_zimmerman_tur.html It’ll be a lot cooler for the summer, expecially if the jail isn’t air conditioned.
I just read this and thought was cute, gave me a giggle and wanted to share.
Funny how the context of something can be taken in diff ways. This was cute, imho
June 3, 2012 at 9:23 am
Happy Sunday, everyone!
In a small town church on Sunday morning a vicar said,
“Anyone with ‘special needs’ who wants to be prayed over, please come forward to the front by the altar.”
With that, Thomas got in line, and when it was his turn, the Preacher asked,
“Thomas, what do you want me to pray about for you?”
Thomas replied, “Preacher, I need you to pray for help with my hearing.”
The preacher put one of his fingers in Thomas’s ear, then he took his other hand and placed it on top of Thomas’s head; and then he prayed and prayed and eventually the whole congregation joined in with great enthusiasm.
After a few minutes, the preacher removed his hands, stood back and asked,
“Thomas, how is your hearing now?”
Thomas answered, “I don’t know. It ain’t ’til Thursday.”
Oh, that is soooo funny. Thanks for the laugh, Mimi. Don’t you just love homonyms and homophones? They may be at least part of the key to the unconfounding of the languages at the tower of Babel. Another key is the Chaldean/Hebrew roots that are reversed when brought into English, IMO.
Funny joke Arkie! He’s got to wait till Thursday, huh? hahaha..
Hi Zuben,
I read the article you linked regarding Wyche case. I’m not familiar with that case so I don’t have an opinion. I understand that case involved a knife, totally different entity than a gun. A gun, is only meant to kill, nothing else, especially aimed at someone’s chest. In that case, I believe there are eye witnesses, in GZ’s there’s not.
We don’t know if GZ pulled out his gun or not. Not one of the 12 or so witnesses saw how it happened. No one knows for a fact if TM chased GZ or the other way around.
IMO, DeeDee is TM’s witness and I believe every word she says. I don’t know why people want to disprove her so badly. It’s a fact she was on the phone with TM. Her story colaborates GZ’s words and it makes sense.
I know you disagree and you’re questioning this phone call but TM was on the phone when GZ was hunting him and scoping him out. That’s exactly what GZ was doing.
He was hunting this suspicious guy. There’s no denying that. We don’t need DeeDee to tell us anything really. So why dispute her?
How does her phone call change what happened?
Hi JB. My point wasn’t about that case, it was about the stand your ground law and the court opinion, as well as the fact that it gives immunity from both criminal and civil prosecution. It doesn’t matter if the weapon that killed is the fists, knife gun or wet noodle. This law can still be applied. Now, if the one that ended up dying used a wet noodle, the killer would have a hard time convincing the judge he feared great bodily harm or death. But you get my point, I’m sure.
I’m sorry, JB but it isn’t a matter of me wanting to disprove her. I believed the story. I didn’t make up the fact that the phone record printed out off the internet says pacific time. It’s a simple fact and it proves no one was on the phone at the time this went done, none of the 4 phones on this phone record presented by Crump as proof.
The reason she could have been important is she is the only one claming that GZ came up to him, rather than the other way around. Remember, the key to this case is who was the aggressor when it went from just watching to being a confrontation. I’m sorry if I upset you but you know me….I can’t ignore facts. I came upon this while trying to determine how long of a period of time there was no witness or anything recorded.
G’Morning!
JB, sad but true,
Trayvon’s bad, his parents are terrible and now it’s his girlfriend, when what
they want is justice, like any of us would want.
Not, just accept the word of the LE and Zimmerman.
I don’t care who you are are why you said you killed someone in self defense/or StandYourGround,
for the victim and the family and the citizens we have got to have a trial unless, the person that killed someone admitted that they did that they were guilty.
We know Zimmerman killed him, but plead not guilty.
I’ve never heard where there wasn’t an arrest even if that person says it was self defense.
In that case every time someone was murdered, the killer just said it was self defense or stand your ground. That isn’t acceptable. Not without a trial.
Trayvon was almost home, but still there was a stranger following him and Trayvon was right, Zimmerman, a stranger was following him, because when Trayvon asked why are you following me, Zimmerman didn’t deny it, he was just cocky and asked what are you doing here.
Then shortly Trayvon was murdered at a close range.
BTW, if a stranger had been following me I would be cautious as to let him know where I lived or was staying!
That’s it?
It’s over?
No trial?
Even Zimmerman was surprised that he didn’t just get by with it without an arrest.
Some times we have to fight for justice and the parents are smeared for it.
Seems like whether you thought Trayvon was guilty, you would want a trial.
Hmm..George sure is having some bad Karma as of late. Maybe it’s because of a higher power that he’s back in jail. Except for that 44 days of freedom that he enjoyed, his life has been turned upside down since the day he shot Trayvon Martin. That’s something I’ve been thinking about.
Zuben,
I don’t know why there’s confusion regarding DeeDee’s phone call. Doesn’t her phone logs jive with Trayvon’s? I thought that was already established? Maybe I missed something or misunderstood.
What I’d like to know ..What was George studying in Criminal Law class when he decided to pursue this suspicious young man? Was he studying the Stand Your Ground law? Or Self Defense cases? I’m totally speculating here but I’d really like to get into his head. Why would a 28yo man, disobey LE and pursue?
A lot of young guys like it.
We already know who Trayvon Martin is.
I read some people have checked out TM’s profile on Facebook.
People have dug up the dirt on TM calling him a thug.
Saying he liked Mixed Martial Arts fighting so why does that matter if TM liked to watch Ultimate Fights. I bet GZ too.
We know GZ likes to fight. Didn’t he have something to do with being a bouncer at a night club? Didn’t he attack an undercover LEO in a bar too? I think he likes to fight and I’m not sure if he hasn’t started a few in his lifetime.
I want to know who George Zimmerman is? Who are his friends? Does he have any?
People have watched the 711 video and swear they saw TM dealing drugs.
People have speculated TM bought a “blunt” when it’s perfectly obvious he did not.
He picked up something off of the ground at the 711 but other’s see something completely different.
Some people think the clerk was being cautious of Trayvon because he was watching him. Instead of realizing Trayvon was the only person in the store, so why wouldn’t he. Why wouldn’t the clerk want to wait on his only customer?
My point is Zuben. When it comes to DeeDee and what she told LE, why can’t we believe her? Has someone dug up the dirt on her and is she a thug too?
Maybe Tracy Martin was too upset to look at Trayvon’s phone? I’m sure he was grieving for his son never dreaming that the phone was significant.
So why is DeeDee lying about the 2nd call? What does that indicate and why would she lie? It was raining, maybe the call didn’t go thru? I’m assuming her statement to LE was sworn, so why does she lie knowing LE can disprove her?
I was thinking of the chopped version of her recording. Maybe its because she was mentioning names of other people? Or maybe it was about smoking a “blunt” and LE is protecting her or protecting TM’s character because they don’t want to villify the victim? That’s a thought.
I don’t think this case is hard to try in court IF the State establishes that by George getting out of his vehicle, it made him the aggressor. If he’s the aggressor, all bets are off. TM is standing his ground and attacked in self defense. (IF he attacked) We don’t know that either.
Do you remember in the doc dump, there’s a picture of a brown plastic bag? I believe its TMs bag from the 711. Maybe that will tell us where the altercation started and in which direction Martin was running.
And I’m sure that GZ’s bond deserved to be revoked. I’m sure he knew of money in that PayPal account just by the way he was making transfers. We know he wasn’t talking about transferring $47.46.
It amazed me that he didn’t mention it in court at his bond hearing but he couldn’t wait to get on the stand and lie to Trayvon’s parents by telling them he thought their son was closer to his age. Remember, he described Trayvon to 911 as being in his late teens. 17 is 11 years younger than 28.
Based on what I know about GZ today, he’s a liar. IMO
Lolypop, I have to assume that first paragraph is directed at me and I’m disappointed. I think I’ve proved myself to be fairly objective, honest, seeking justice. I don’t deserve that. I don’t make up facts, I share then and the links that prove they are in fact, facts, not gossip or wishful thinking.
I also don’t write the laws but the fact is, if by a preponderance of the evidence it is shown that George Zimmerman acted in self defense and can claim immunity through the stand your ground law, there will be no trial, if the judge agrees. If he disagrees he still has the right to claim the same to the jury of his peers. There have been others that haven’t went to trial. Just because you haven’t heard of it doesn’t mean it never happens. In fact, there was a case that happened just 3 days prior to this. http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Charge-Dismissed-Against-Teen-Who-Stood-His-Ground-in-Gas-Station-Fight-149329395.html
JB, I’ve never called anyone a thug or another of the other stuff you’re directing at me. I don’t defend him or anyone if they lie, if it is proven they did. We’ve only heard part of the story so far. I linked the phone record that Crump is saying proves TM was on the phone with the girlfriend and it is a fact it is impossible unless they TMobile prints that the time is PST but it is really EST. I have no idea if LE got an official copy of either his or her phone records. All I know is what I see here, believe it or not but I don’t know how you can deny what the phone record says. Apparently I offend both of you and I’ll do my best to keep my observations to myself. Have a great night.
Zuben you said;
I apologize for almost going into a rant. I wasn’t directing my feelings of vilifying the victim to you personally. I’ve never heard you call TM a thug. That’s a fact and YES it’s true, you always look at the facts first before drawing your conclusions.
I feel like I know you well and I think you know me too. So I’m really sorry if I offended you.
I was addressing this issue in general. The way people went after TM and the type of teenager he was and even scrutinizing his visit to the 711. I don’t think that’s necessary to make the decision.. whether or not GZ legally killed him or not because TM was not doing anything illegal. GZ says why he called 911. That’s been established.
I think when you used the word “alleged call” I assumed you’re thinking she’s lying but now I see you want more clarification. You don’t see enough info to convince you. Fair enough.
Honestly, since DeeDee’s interview with LE hasn’t been transcribed it’s hard to tell if the times are really off.
This is my take on the phone log:
This is what it shows on the http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/call+log.pdf
3 calls;
6:54pm – incoming – 18-mins
7:04pm – incoming – 1- min
712pm – incoming – 4- mins
It doesn’t matter when GZ’s call to 911 initiated as long as DeeDee’s calls are during the altercation.
This could have happened.
6:54 — She’s on the phone with TM while he’s at 711.
7:04 — She calls back, no connection ,, whatever
Zimms call:
@ 7:09 when Zim calls 911, TM is at the mail boxes, getting out of the rain.
7:12 — He begins to walk on the sidewalk towards his dad’s apt. He has the headset in his ear the entire time. No one knows when he gets a phone call. When DeeDee calls him, he’s telling her what’s going on. She tells him to run.
Have you ever watched a 30 second commercial on television? A lot can be said in 30 seconds, so I definitely believe DeeDee is telling the truth.
So if the time isn’t lining up, maybe you should think about who’s telling it. Zimmerman could be lying about what he’s doing. We’ll have to get a complete breakdown from him to know for sure.
Okay, I read this.. another doc that you linked.
THIS IS Mr. Zimmerman’s words. This piece of “paper” documents these words: ” Here the dispatcher notes that subject…” The dispatcher doesn’t know anything. No one knows. That’s the problem and personally I don’t think Zim is being truthful.
BTW, I’m almost positive that this girl lives out of state.
I made shrimp and Andouille gumbo tonight.
Zuben, you seem to believe this is a bunch of bull coming from Crump and the Martins. You have a right to your own opinion but IMO, this girl that was on the phone with TM that night might be the best witness of all.
And I have a complete opposite feeling about the Martins. I think they are good people. It’s funny no arrest records or anything like that has come up about Tracy or Sybrina. Considering how some people have ways of finding this out…If there were something bad to say about the Martins, I think we would know about it.
Okay.. bbl. I’ve got to turn off my gumbo.
Yumm… can’t wait..
Zuben,11:39
You said that you think the star witness is out of the picture and that you can
say with relative certainty that Crump and the Martins are liars!
Were you not speaking about Trayvon’s girlfriend as the star witness?
BTW, speaking what you believe does not offend me,
It means that some look at this differently and I don’t believe that you should keep your
observations to yourself.
I wouldn’t want that. Isn’t that what it’s all about?
In this case, isn’t it rather hard to know. I mostly am basing my opinion on
Zimmerman’s 911 call.
Loly,
Just be careful my friend…The tape was doctored as well as photos in the beginning of this case
so some of your opinions were based around lies in the beginning..The seed was planted already
in your mind early on that GZ was the instigator…..I see where you’ve been coming from however.
But dont really understand how you can dismiss the fact that TM’s camp has gone through
great lengths to deceive the public and that is troubling…..The photos speaks for itself…Sometimes we look too much into things……Which I am guilty of too however there’s no disputing the fact
that GZ is the one who felt intimidated enough to call 911, not TM, and the photos of his injuries
supports that period. That is why I say it’s not that hard but this case took a turn when
politics took over…..There’s not way IMOO he’ll receive a fair trial…..no way. Hope i’m wrong.
excuse the typos….
Loly
I toyed with the idea that pehaps GZ was a hot headed individual, who wanted to put an end
to the never ending crime that was taking place within the community, and what seemed
to be very frustrating that police werent doing a damn thing about it but took the pussy way
out and cheaper way and placed that responsibility back on to the residence whom they are
hired to protect. I dont see GZ as that person…..He had a right to carry a gun. And do understand
why he had one. I know I would if I had a reason. I’m sure many of the neighbors who were victims
within that community never had a thought but went out and bought one….It’s only natural
to want to protect yourself and ones property….Unfortunately ,if they’re not protected by the people we hire to protect what other choices do we have? End up dead? I chooose to protect myself!
Unfortunately TM is a victim as well as the people within that community….That is what should be
on trial but GZ is going to be the fall guy for the systems’ failures…..And to me?? That is totally unaccepatable…….He’s innocent….IMOO…..Have a good day…..
The so called system will protect itself, and will bring down anyone to do just that…..The police is the government. So, the protection that was suppose to be there for the community was placed in GZ and other’s responsibility so he wasnt arrested right away, they considered him doing their jobs……Do you think Obama would’ve stepped forward if the police were the ones who shot Trayvon? No way, then he’d be going against the gov…..That is why he chose to comment
on this case for political purposes…..GZ is a civilian……not the gov.
Bottom line, GZ is a fall guy……imoo……now i’m out….ciao
Good morning, JB. Thank you. I said alleged because those calls didn’t come in to his phone at the time she and they are claiming, if the document they are using to support it is legit. I have to assume it is because it looks like it was printed of the Tmobile site logged in as Tracy. No one called in or out at 7:12 pm that night. You missed the most important point I was making. Pacific time is California time, 3 hours earlier than Florida. That call came in to someone’s phone that is on that account at 4:12 pm, hours before this took place. Again, please look on page 5 where it tells the time zone printed.
I don’t get your point here,
No, this isn’t simply Zimmerman’s words. It’s a piece of evidence that creates a timeline and detail of what went on before the shooting. It proves he didn’t confront TM as he walked by him. Are you saying he called dispatch simply to tell them lies? That would point to premeditated murder. I see nothing to support what you are saying. He has called in several other times and never tried to take the law into his own hands.
The fact still remains there is no call in this print out that came in during the time in question. Now, if there is another print out that shows the call took place then it makes no sense that they would offer to the media a print out that is in Pacific time zone with no calls that could be around 7pm that night. They or their attorney submitted a falsehood to the media, through his words and this document. Either it was intentional or else the girl lied to them and they looked at the phone records, without noticing the time zone and ran with it to the media. I’ll really be blown away if LE didn’t check this out better by getting a subpoena for the official records before they arrested Zimmerman.
I’ve been noticing over and over again, astrological similarities to the Anthony case. It may be the quality of law enforcement and the justice system down there, it may be the rush to judgment they have in common, it may be both. I’ve also seen similarities in emotional reactions here and elsewhere. This case is striking a nerve just like the Anthony case. I was always convinced that with the Anthony case the raw nerve is motherhood vs being a woman with needs and what is considered normal behavior of an innocent person, another type of profiling. This case is striking another emotional raw nerve, buried deep within the collective memory. When this takes over it is hard to be objective but if we are to be true seekers of justice, we have to. Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty and they are a long way from that at this point. You assume Trayvon Martin didn’t do anything illegal but if he approached Zimmerman and hit him, he was doing something illegal. We don’t know that didn’t happen. There is evidence that it did. GZ has no bruised or cut knuckles. TM has no wounds other than the gunshot and what was self inflicted on his left hand.
You know, I could see if you had a problem with what I offer here if I was only offering opinion not based on fact or astrological insight. Although it has proved to be quite valid I realize the latter wouldn’t hold up in court and I stick to the evidence that may be used in court. There is no evidence shown to the public so far that Zimmerman wasn’t defending himself or that this girl called him around 7 pm that night. Even if this girl were on the phone with him at that time, what she is saying doesn’t prove Zimmerman took the first punch. There is no evidence of him throwing any punch at all. At this point, he would have to be found not guilty. This was also true in the Anthony case. Will Zimmerman be forever judge guilty too?
Good Morning MoneyBagsGeorge,
LOL, do you happen to watch Seinfeld? George Costanza is my favorite character and one of my favorites lines is when he refers to himself as “Liar George”. That was the first thing I thought of when I heard about GZ’s jailhouse phone calls to his wife.
Anyway, I agree with you when you said that the police weren’t doing what they should have been doing. That’s true.
It’s a damn shame that crime has gotten so out of hand. In NOLA there’s been ten shooting involving the NOPD. So what does that say?
“Liar George” is back in Seminole County jail, licking his wounds and at the same time counting the dough being donated to his PayPal account. As his PayPal account is bringing in about a thousand dollars a day, he’s behind bars and his wife is shaking in her boots because she may join him.
Did he really think that he wasn’t being recorded? Did he think that moving $47.46 to another account was going to go unnoticed? I can’t remember the last time I had a conversation about transferring $10 to another bank account. Hell, if all I had was $10 in my bank account, it’s time to close the account.
And did I hear that right..Did O’Mara say he was carrying around Zim’s passport and just forgot to turn it in?
Yes, I think some of my fellow Americans have picked the wrong hero. Liar George is the wrong guy to waste your hard earned money. I know why he’s being treated as a hero. It doesn’t take much of a brain to figure out that he’s the Hero because he was called to carpet by Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the new black panthers. But lets not kill the messenger. Trayvon Martin can’t help who his supporters are. No matter if we think he should be convicted or not I think we can agree that he needed to be brought to trial to prove he killed TM in self defense.
There’s one huge difference here and that is the Pres of the USA stepped in, not so in the Anthony Case…..GZ doesnt have a shot to prove it was self defense .That is out the window…..
To be honest? And its just my opinion …I really dont care how much he has in his bank account.
nor did I with Casey Anthony…..It’s a no brainer as to why they needed to protect themselves….
Good morning Zuben,
I’m not sure what you’re trying to point out from the TMobile statement. I think Tracy Martin was asked to get a copy of the phone records. I’m sure TM’s dad paid for his cell phone.
Now I don’t know how this record was botched or tampered with but surely anything is possible. I haven’t seen a phone bill in years, since I used email and paid my bill over the phone, so I don’t know what a print out looks like. I noticed that some calls were flagged “Mobile to Mobile”. Maybe those calls show up different?
I’m sorry but we’ll just have to agree to disagree because I don’t see where that document proves that TM attacked GZ and if he did, “we don’t know why”. Maybe GZ pulled his gun out to detain TM and TM tried to save his life by rushing at him. Did you notice in the evidence pictures? It looks like a sprinkler nozzle stuck in the ground. That would definitely explain GZ’s wound on the back of his head. When you’ve had your head bashed on concrete, by a person fighting for his life as I’m sure TM was after he saw the gun, I would expect a cracked skull. Or at least a concussion, not the cut like wound. GZ’s wound looks like it came from a sharp object. imo. And in GZ’s defense, by the close proximity of the sprinkler nozzle and the concrete, maybe he was mistaken and just thought it was the concrete.
Have you looked at the pictures of GZ’s hands? He hands look like he just left the nail salon. His nails are long and very clean. Not even grass stuck under his nails. Looking at his hands, its hard to believe he was in a fight.
As for the wound on TM’s hand, we don’t know when that happened. Just a thought. So I can’t agree with you that it’s a fact that TM’s wound was self-inflicted.
Have you seen pictures of Darlie Routier? She’s on death row for the murder of her 2 boys. She claimed she was attacked by the same attacker who killed her children. The DA in that case claimed her wounds were self-inflicted. She has a bruise on her arm that’s over 10 inches in length. Her face is black and blue and swollen. So if a jury can believe that her wounds were self inflicted, it’s possible that Zims wounds are too.
I agree with you that this case is similar to Anthony’s. Absolutely, there was a rush to judgment, so don’t count me out if I find myself agreeing that according to Florida law, this was a case of self-defense but I’ll never agree that it was because of TM’s actions because I believe had GZ not gotten involved with TM that night, TM would have made it home with his bag of Skittles and iced tea and GZ would have made it home too.
I feel what happened was one BIG misunderstanding which can be said about most manslaughter cases.
You said, “Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty.” ITA
FYI, as we get into trial JB i’ll come up with a good nick for this George…..
pro or con,,,,,i’ll be determined when I hear more at trial….your “Liar George” could ring true, but i’ll
wait and see : )
As far as your shootings in your home state? I ‘m scared for you to be honest, not knowing the circumstances but you know how I feel about your State being taken over and the gulf coast
for oil production etc……………but then we’ll save this for another forum……
Martial Law is a scaryyy thoughtt;
JB!!!!
A lawn sprinkler???? Sis! Now come on….I know you’re trying to look at both sides with a some what open mind but? hehe,,,,you did give me a chuckle on this one
JB,
I havent gotten into the documents yet, as well as the jailhouse as I got disqusted with the gov’ts intervention on this case but perhaps I may check some out…..
I just hate that we can’t edit. I’m sorry, the above should read the call at 7:12 came into one of their phones at 10:12 pm, EST in Florida. This is nearly 3 hours after TM was pronounced dead. There would need to be a call at about 4pm PST to match 7pm EST. The only call close is an outgoing call lasting 41 minutes that began at 7:28 EST and again, he was already dead by then. Now, there is one incoming text that could fit. It is on page 4, ins incoming from Miami Dade at 4:08 PST, 7:08 EST. The sender of a text can’t hear anything. We don’t know which of the 4 phones this came in to or if he sent texts. That would be usable evidence and more reliable than a witness. But, if it were text messages why would Crump and the girl say she was talking to him an heard him getting pushed or something similar? Again, you can’t hear anything with a text message. Since they are using the girl as the star witness for the indictment why weren’t her or his phone records in the first discovery released?
I’m sorry you don’t want to accept this phone record does not show a phone call at 7:12 pm in Florida and with that I’ll drop it, after one more question. Do you really believe that our constitution demands someone prove their innocence, that GZ must prove he acted in self defense? I thought it was the other way around, that it was up to the state to prove he didn’t act in self defense. Am I in a different country all the sudden?
GCG, I agree that this was a political move. The investigator admitted at the bond hearing that he had nothing to dispute self defense. Not one of the officers in the beginning thought there was a case for 2nd degree murder. One wanted manslaughter, a whole different ball game. Again, our rights are being taken away from us and a huge percentage of America was demanding that with Crump and the Martins leading the parade.
MoneyBagsGeorge,
lol..I’m really trying to look at both sides.
Maybe I didn’t describe the nozzle enough. You know how on big lawns such as apartment complexes and lawns of big buildings. They have these elaborate sprinkler systems dug through the entire lawn. The nozzles of the sprinkler system sticks out of the ground about an inch if they aren’t buried properly. They are metal and if someone fell on one of them, they would cut their head. If you notice it looks like the nozzle is about 6 inches from the edge concrete so if like I described, TM rushed at GZ, knocking him to the ground, he may have fell back and hit his head on the metal nozzle.
*Incidentally, now that I mentioned “edge of concrete”.. Maybe George hit his head on the edge of the concrete. IMO, that’s another possibility.
I’m trying to explain his cut on his head because his head doesn’t look like it was bashed on concrete. Obviously, he has an injury on his head..so I’ll give him that but if his head was bashed on the concrete, I want to read about a fractured skull or a concussion, not see a picture of a cut that didn’t need stitches.
Hi Zuben,
I’m glad we’re discussing the phone issue again. You questioned “what” phone log are we looking at. Good point. We don’t know for sure if this phone log represents TM or one of the other 3 people on this bill.
When I looked at the NBC link, I only noticed 3 phone calls that are close to the timeline. One at 6:54pm, one at 7:04pm and one at 7:12pm. I don’t know who’s calling TM because I don’t know deedee’s phone number and the bill doesn’t show the phone number.
I didn’t see the Pacific times either?? Are we looking at the same document? LOL, I guess that would help. This is the one I’m referring to.
http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/call+log.pdf
If DeeDee is called in as a witness she’d have to produce HER phone records, right? So I’ll wait to see if her phone log matches Trayvon’s phone log. That would be the key, without a doubt proof she was on the phone with him.
You said:
The law requires that if you kill someone in self defense, it’s the defendants “burden of proof” not the other way around like in normal, everyday murders when the State has the burden of proof.
If O’Mara decides GZ is innocent under the SYG law, then he’ll have to go to Judge Lester and plead his case. If Judge Lester cannot make a decision, then it goes to a jury. I think this is why some people are predicting this case won’t go to trial. They’re waiting to see if Judge Lester will buy GZ’s story. At this point, I don’t think he will considering he revoked his bond.
You can Google it if you like but I read “Only in cases of self-defense does the defendant have the burden of proof.”
Imagine if this wasn’t the law… It would it be the Wild, Wild West.
JB, it’s the same document I liked to. Look on page 5 where is shows the links to other pages of this call log at tmobile and you can clearly see it says times and dates shown in Pacific Standard time. PAGE 5 of the PDF.
The defense only has the burden of proof as far as the stand your ground issue. The rest, proving it is murder in the 2nd degree, not self defense, is on the state’s shoulders. They have to be able to prove that he acted with depraved mind and murdered in 2nd degree. The chief investigator said under oath he has no proof that it wasn’t self defense, right?
While it will likely never come into evidence, why did the family take down his twitter account and why did they keep offering pictures that made him look like a little boy? Even the one in a grey hoodie isn’t recent at all. Do they not like his handles? Maybe they were afraid it would tarnish his image but I’ve seen worse coming from kids his age. I think it is more that the picture he had there and the words he used don’t match the young child they were trying to present to the media to start this hate war. In case you don’t believe it was his twitter account, they forgot to get rid of the twitpic account that is connected to his iphone and the twitter account. Those tweets captured through PeopleBrowsr by Daily Caller are his. I don’t just take someone’s word for something, although they have pretty good proof without my finding this account. My point here is not to tarnish his reputation. It is to point out that from the beginning the family and their attorney have not been honest and they have made this into a race war, which it never was. The mother made a statement that she thought it was an accident but yet she wants him behind bars without bond. Accidents arent’ the type of case that should require a no bond status. Is she seeking justice afforded under our constitutions? I think not. My heart breaks for her and I agree this could have been avoided, if GZ never left the car, if he never left the house, if TM would have hightailed it home, if his dad had grounded him for being expelled, if, if, if. Any tragedy like this could have been avoided. But it wasn’t.
Are you aware that they are still claiming racial profiling, taking their cause to London recently? It appears to me that the Zimmermans associate with people of different backgrounds. Do they? I don’t know and that’s why I’m asking. Every picture I’ve seen is with only people of African decent. Quite often when someone screams something over and over again, it is because it is a problem or bias they, themselves have. Is this true of her? Her facebook pics are monochromatic except a pic of a white guy that designed a head or haircut in honor of her son. Her likes are all one color too. I like a full palate when I paint my life although I haven’t had as much opportunity as I’d like. JB, it looks to me like this mother is grieving the loss of her son by trying to make others greive under false pretenses, suffer as much as she is. Revenge isn’t justice and neither is trying to start a race war. We are all one and she is only going to prolong her suffering. I won’t help her do that.
JB,your google search led me to this from the appelate court, posted by an attorney in Trayvon Martins home town. http://www.miami-criminal-lawyer.net/caselaw/2011/04/15/michael-v-montijo-appellant-v-state-of-florida-appellee/
Aww gee Zuben,
Just looking at this phone bill it’s hard for me to decide anything. I guess I’ll have to wait until trial or the next doc dump to see DeeDee’s records. That’ll be more conclusive than trying to disect this bill. Once I realized that Tracy Martin has 4 phones on his bill, it could be anyone.
Right…at this point the SA has to prove 2nd degree murder. After O’Mara deposes 50 or so witnesses, if he thinks this is a SYG or self-defense case, he’ll go to Judge Lester. If Judge Lester agrees, then Game Over. Everyone goes home Fat, Dumb and Happy. If Judge Lester says he can’t decide, then it goes to a jury.
But you’re right. As of now..The State has to prove 2nd degree murder which is overkill IMO. Which I said before…Maybe the whole dang state of Florida is playing the public for fools. The know dang well that if they charged George with manslaughter than it would only take 6 jurors to convict.
lol Remember the Anthony case? I’m fairly certain had she been charged with manslaughter, she would have been convicted. Not that I think she deserved it but I think the SA’s could have convinced half of the jurors. If I’m on a jury and I know, this person might face the DP, you best believe I’d want physical evidence.
Another thing I agree with you about..the State of Florida’s judicial system is a joke. It seems to me, they do what they want and if they want someone to be found not guilty they’ll make it happen, one way or another. Remember, those idiots didn’t even arrest Zimmerman. lol So you know, they don’t want to be proven wrong. They want to walk away saying “I told you so” and give Angela Corey the finger.
As far as TM’s pictures that were released earlier, I’d guess that the parents didn’t have anything recent. in this digital age, most pictures are on cell phones. The picture of TM that I added to this article was probably from one of his school friends. So I’ll give them the benefit of doubt because I believe they deserve it. I applaud them for getting a lawyer and getting Trayvon Martin’s story to the press.
If this were my son, I’d go where ever I had to just to get someone to pay attention. And it worked. It worked so well, Angela Corey, a person that I really don’t like because she’s the idiot who’s charging a 12yo with murder..but I have admit I agree with her in this case.
This case had to go to trial.
As far as the tweets and all the other actions of the Martin family, whenever a case shows a racial slant, politics and other splinter groups join in on the action for their own cause.
For instance, I can’t help how I found about GZ/TM. I think a lot of people feel this way. I don’t see it as racial. I don’t want to see it as racial either. I rather base my opinion on the incident itself.
Look at GZ. He’s half Peruvian. The KKK wouldn’t accept him. TM & GZ would not fit their criteria.
Yes, I am aware that the FBI is looking at this case as a hate crime. And if the Martin’s are taking this case to the National level and at the same time making a racial point of view, I can’t help that either. I still feel that what happened to their son was avoidable and someone should pay the price for thier mistake.
And I definitely agree that Trayvon’s mother is grieving and I know, in grief we sometimes get angry. I know I did when my mother passed away. I wanted to blame someone and she was in her 70s. So I’m not going to judge her.
Whew, Zuben..I’m so glad this case isn’t going to happen this year. Maybe by 2013 all of the hoopla will have settled down.
I have to run a few errands..bbl
Common adult ADD / ADHD symptoms: Emotional difficulties
Many adults with ADD/ADHD have a hard time managing their feelings, especially when it comes to emotions like anger or frustration. Common emotional symptoms of adult ADD/ADHD include:
sense of underachievement
doesn’t deal well with frustration
easily flustered and stressed out
(irritability or mood swings
trouble staying motivated
hypersensitivity to criticism
short, often explosive, temper
low self-esteem and sense of insecurity
Jb.
Hope none of those errands is check cashing.
: )
Good Monday Afternoon everyone! Well been a big weekend kinda bittersweet, yday was my 17th wedding anniv and today is my parents 50th! wow. They didnt want any fuss, dang!
Well wanted to share this before I catch up. I was at the dr office earlier. You know how they have magizines out to look at. There was a Peoples Mag, dated April 9 2012. On the cover was picture of 12 yr old TM in the red Hollister shirt. Of course this article was done way prior to publication date and within the article it talks about a:waiting the upcoming April 10 grand jury date. I got aggravated in reading the article. It plainly states as fact which is not a true statement, and I quote: “This much is indisputable: there were cries of ‘HELP’ then Zimmerman fired TWO bullets from a semiautomatic handgun, one of which fatally struck the teen in the chest:. It further states wrongly that GZ is in hiding, with the same gun that he used to shoot TM with and how the police were wrong that that should be standard. This was on page 63 of that issue. I asked the lady at the window if she could copy for me and she said its old you can take lol. I said thank you and good because there is info that is not true in it. I can see how people reading just articles like this or watching stuff like on NBC and ABC and other MSM can get a whole diff opinion, and in this case, esp since the doc release, and truth about MSM coming forth, sadly many who read the falsehoods, wont remember that they were not true. Just the same IMHO as what happened to Casey. I hope that GZ sues these people for the down right lies. Ok, off to catch up. Hoping your all having an Awesome day! Hugs, Mimi
Hi Arkansasmimi,
Was that planned?
Happy Anniversary to you and your parents. How sweet.. you and your mom were married on the same day.
I’m not surprised by what you read in People’s April 9th issue. Apparently George’s dad must have heard the same thing. Take a listen to this interview GZ’s dad gave to the SAO. He mentions the lies too.
March 19, 2012
http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/zimmermans-father-describes-his-son-to-police/vHLfL/
I think the “2 shots fired” came from one of the neighbors. IIRC.. I’d have reread the reports but I heard that one too.
Anyway, I’m not surprised. The news media has gone hog wild in the last few years. There’s no such thing as responsible reporting. All they want to do is sell publications. such a shame..
Zuben,
It looks like I was wrong again. About the self defense issue in Florida, you’re exactly right.
I just goggled it myself and found this explanation.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/22/23-states-that-have-sweeping-self-defense-laws-just-like-florida%E2%80%99s/
Oh well.. I guess since Florida indicted Zimmerman on 2nd degree murder it really doesn’t matter but imo, I think if someone kills someone else without a witness to back up a self defense claim, I would hope that the person could prove it in a court of law.
I hope the state of Florida will be able to prove it because there’s no way I would believe someone such as George Zimmerman. He’s a proven liar and he doesn’t mind physical confrontations.
Elated, actually.
Since he bought himself a gun, no doubt in my mind. This would have happened to someone else.
I’m hearing a song in my head right now..”Don’t mess with Zim, no, no, no” It goes to the tune of “Don’t Mess with Bill” lol
If not, I suspect they’ll just have more murders like the one George Zimmerman committed.
I’m just glad I don’t live in Florida.
hehehehe.. GasCan,
Where they know I’m alive and kicking.
Nope, I’m not going to any bank but my own.
JB, one of the main points Zuben is trying to point out and I dont think you understand. Forgive me if I am wrong there. On the phone bill itself, not talking about whose numbers or whatever, on the stmnt itself, it states that the TIMES ARE PST MEANING THAT THE TIME ON THAT PIECE OF PAPER WHATEVER TIME A CALL IS MADE IF IT SAYS example 7pm, THAT IS 7 pm TIME IN PST like in CALIFORNIA. For it to be EST, which is what FL is, you would have to SUBTRACT 3 HOURS TO WHAT EVER THE HOUR WAS. SO if the phone call that DD talked about was on THIS PHONE STMNT THAT WAS RELEASED, THE 7 whatever time, call, HAVE TO HAVE BEEN 4 something in FL. THAT is going by the information stated on this phone bill.
Remb in the Casey case, where and I cant remb if it was the computer logs or maybe Cindy work times, but remb how there was a prob with the time change? This is the same thing sorta.
So IMHO going by THIS phone record being released, IF WHAT THIS PHONE RECORD STATES, she could not have been talking to him when it went down. NOW if the doc that havent been release yet, have among them a true time and it matches, then I will reconsider the new info.
WOOOOPS wrong time change. What ever the time was in Florida, say 7 then you would add 3 to get the Cali time. Florida is 1 hr ahead of me, and Cali 2 hours (my dtr use to be stationed there) So if I am correct this time, IF THE PHONE STMNT RELEASED SAYS EXAMPLE 7 PM PST, IT WOULD BE 10 PM EST. SO again it couldnt be correct IF THIS STMNT RELEASED IT TRUE TO WHAT IT STATES, TM would already be deceased. SO there has to be a copy certified to be time for EST at the time DD says and so far I havent found one.
JB, try this, go to link, go to the lil thing that shows pages, or do page down 5 times. Go to the bottom of THAT page, before goes to page 6 and it says this is PST time. I cant get it copy pasted here so i am gonna send you a lil capture of it.
maybe you will see what we are talking about.
Hmm..well that’s impossible because DeeDee lives in Miami.
LOL JB, the statement is in PST time per the paper lol. I guess maybe because from where ever the internet connect is to? All I know is what the paper says,and it says as you can see in my email
Arkie,
I’ve been looking at this page for over an hour and I swear I do not see anything that says Pacific time. LOL
Call me Crazy..cuz I really don’t see it.
This is what it shows on the http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/call+log.pdf
I see this…
3 calls;
6:54pm – incoming – 18-mins
7:04pm – incoming – 1- min
712pm – incoming – 4- mins
Nope, I’m sorry. I wish I could at least lie and say I see it but I don’t.
I hit the “Find” button. It doesn’t find “pacific”
So I guess I’ll wait till trial and look at DeeDee’s phone bill and see if it matches Trayvons.
Okay..Now I’m going to watch a little TV.
And why would TMobile give Tracy Martin a bill indicating Pacific times? That wouldn’t make sense. He lives in Miami Gardens, Florida. ??
Sorry…
That I dont know but thats what it says. Will full screen copy and email it. Did you get my email
Date and time corresponds to Pacific calls. LOL OKay, I found it!
Yes, that just means it “corresponds” to Pacific calls, not that these are Pacific calls. For Downloaded calls.
That would mean DeeDee is calling him at 4PM, not 7PM.
Is that what you and Zuben think? Oh come on.. So it just so happens that she calls TM at the exact time that corresponds with 6:54pm, 7:04pm & 7:12pm
Thats insane. Its not in Pacific Time. If it was in Pacific time why would LE even bother to interview her.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/21/update-10-part-2-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-deedee-reveals-the-false-truths/
OIC – These are the same people who say Trayvon was doing a drug deal at the 711.
Got it.
Well, I don’t know why Tracy Martin is driving a truck. This man is a GENIUS!
And to set up the minutes just right. Wow. I’m impressed.
He’s good.
Okay, this is my nicer comment. Sorry for the attitude. But that darn bill was making me crazy.
I went to TMobile and found this.
http://support.t-mobile.com/message/117416
MyTmobile data/calls tracking
This question has been Answered.
There seems to be a bug in the MyTmobile website. When I log in and look at calls I notice the calls reflect calls made in EDT, while Data information seems to be based on PDT. At the bottom of both pages are statements that the dates/times reflected are in Pacific time. As a reference for the call I used a call from my wife and it reflected EDT (which is where I am), however when I purposely did a large data download it was reflected in Pacific time. Anyone else notice this behavior when they log into their My Tmobile site?
This explains that “Data Information” such as what’s DOWNLOADED <– large files are based on PDT.
Actual telephone calls are reflected in its correct time.
Here's another answer..
It's been like that for a while, Josh.
I was told by another T-Mobile person it's because calls are translated to local time zone of where they're made because of billing purposes, but data & texts don't have different prices for peak and off-peak.
Did anyone at that site bother to check with TMobile? Probably not.
G’ Evening everybody : )
and Happy Anniversary to you and your Parents too Mimi! : )
Mimi, about magazines and tabloid papers. You may think what you read
that everyone believes them, but just like you didn’t believe it, none of the others believed it and if they did, it wasn’t because of the magazines.
If they even read it they aren’t paying attention to what is happening like we are and like Zuben said she get’s her information here and even talk about it is here.
As for me, I don’t frustrate myself with tabloid magazines and the Nancy Graces. I took myself completely away from them over a year ago, except In Session and HLN for the trial.
Most people don’t even know who Nancy Grace or the likes of her are. They are way too involved with things that they enjoy. I don’t blame them.
I think that most Stand Your Ground and self defense cases are usually won by the defendant.
How can anyone prove otherwise?
But, I’ve always thought there was a trial anyway.
I think in that case though that the defendant should have to testify because they are their only witness. But, again that’swhat I think.
We all have opinions right now and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Zimmerman judge: Prosecutor must release Zimmerman’s statements to cops
By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel 1:54 p.m. EST June 13, 2012
Snippet:
Within the next two weeks, the public will know exactly what George Zimmerman, in his own words, told authorities about the night he shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.
Judge Kenneth Lester on Tuesday issued an order granting, in part, a motion filed by several media companies — including the Orlando Sentinel — seeking to have evidence in the case released that had previously been withheld from the public. …….
Prosecutors argued that Zimmerman’s statements to law enforcement should remain sealed, under an exemption in Florida’s public records law that bars the release of confessions. Zimmerman admits to shooting the Miami Gardens teen but says he did so in self-defense.
After reviewing Zimmerman’s statements, Lester concluded that they are not confessions.
Zimmerman “does not acknowledge guilt of the essential elements of the crime. The only element conceded by the defendant is that he shot and killed the victim, but he does not concede any other elements of second-degree murder.”
Lester ordered the statements released within 15 days.
The judge did not, however, grant other requests of the media — chief among them, the names of unidentified civilian witnesses in the case. Lester wrote that identifying them would subject them to intense scrutiny and possible intimidation and present a “serious and imminent threat” to a fair trial.
“The innocent witnesses who have performed their civic or moral duty by reporting what they observed to law enforcement should not have their lives turned upside-down for having done so,” he wrote.
Lester acknowledged that, in the past, that information has been public, even in high profile cases. But, Lester wrote, “the world has changed.”
“Any person who has logged onto a news website in the last three months has at the least seen a headline relating to this case,” he wrote, adding that stories “have routinely been disseminated presenting opinion and rumors as fact.”
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-13/news/os-george-zimmerman-records-20120613_1_law-enforcement-high-profile-cases-second-degree-murder
This really says a lot about the change of times, IMHO. Maybe something good will come from this, after seeing what the Jurors of Casey Anthony went thru. This is from Judge Lester re the witnesses names :http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/SKMBT_363-V12061312310.pdf