Friday, July 01, 2011
Until now I had forgotten a couple of rather interesting details regarding River Cruz aka Krystal Holloway and how she became a player in this high-profile case against Casey Anthony.
As I posted in a past article, this story broke on March 11, 2010 via WFTV.com of central Florida. Kathi Belich wrote an article claiming George Anthony had a year long affair with a woman named River Cruz aka Krystal Holloway. Sometime during the alleged affair, River Cruz confided to her twin sister Skye Benhaida that “George said Caylee’s death was an accident that snowballed out of control”
Apparently, Skye Benhaida who’s real name is Cecilia Holloway sold this story to the National Enquirer for $4000 which I understand she denied while being a guest on the Nancy Grace show.
Incidentally, I’m still toiling with the Benhaida/Zenaida coincidence.
Strange Chain of Events
==============George Anthony Suicide Attempt==============
Report:”911 Call ;Family Lawyer Reports George Anthony Missing”
George Anthony Suicide Story broke Jan 23, 2010
George Anthony left 5 page suicide note
Caylees grandfather hospitalized in attempted suicide
VOLUSIA COUNTY, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35, Orlando) — George Anthony has been admitted to the Halifax Medical Center in Daytona Beach after police say he left a five-page suicide note.
Earlier Friday, a hospital spokeswoman said George was first stabilized and was then admitted for medical evaluation. She said he has been fully cooperative with hospital officials, and it will be up to physicians to determine how long he will stay at the hospital.
A doctor determined that George was stable enough to be moved to a regular room at the hospital.
George Anthony is the father of 22-year-old Casey Anthony, who has been charged with the murder of her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee.
George Anthony failed to show up to a meeting with his family and their lawyer.
George and Cindy Anthony’s attorney Brad Conway called 911 Thursday night to report George missing.
An Orange County Sheriff’s Office deputy went to the home and spoke with Conway and Cindy Anthony.
Cindy told the deputy that she last saw George at 10:30 a.m. when he left home for what he told her was a job interview. Cindy told the officer what he was wearing and that he had been and depressed about the death of his granddaughter, Caylee Marie. She said she asked George on Wednesday to pick out some jewelry for Caylee for her funeral and beleives that doing so might have made him even more depressed.
Cindy says she made several calls and texts to George but he never responded and that his medications were missing from his nightstand. She said a picture of herself and their daughter Casey were also missing from the home.
Around 10:47 p.m. Cindy said George began send her and other friends text messages via cell phones stating that he wanted to be alone, did not want to live anymore, and wanted to make sure Caylee was in God’s arms.
==============River Cruz Suicide Attempt==============
Report: “Woman who says she was George Anthony’s mistress attempts suicide”
Krystal Holloway Suicide Story broke March 26, 2010
River Cruz, whose Twitter post says “SUICIDE PACT,” was rushed to Florida Hospital South, a TV station says.
March 26, 2010
A woman who claimed she had an affair with Casey Anthony’s father tried to kill herself by swallowing pills, WFTV.com is reporting.
River Cruz was rushed to Florida Hospital South, the report says. Her Twitter post says: “SUICIDE PACT.”
George Anthony’s attorney has said his client has not had an affair with River Cruz.
WFTV.com said the woman’s sister told the news station that Cruz was taken by ambulance to Florida Hospital South after Cruz ingested pills.
The Twitter page for Cruz also says this: “That whole family knew what happened with Caylee. I’m tired of all this. I never wanted any of this, so now it’s time.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Something to ponder…
theJBMission~
(large hole? I don’t think so…)
forensic anthropology as opposed to doing an autopsy
/blam
Somebody correct me if I’m wrong! but when they found these bones, JA says DNA was distoryed! and I at thime thought – huh? the oldest sample is 70,000 years old. I have never seen any DNA comeing from the bones found. Now Goldberg just ID’d he had the “BONE MARROW” from this bone and ran test for tox. I ASK AGAIN ** WHERE IS THE DNA FROM THIS BONE MARROW ** ?
spells foramin. F-O-R-A-M-I-N which literally means large hole.
you have a number of skulls for investigating? yes sir. Have you found it necessary to saw open any of those skulls? objection.
is there particular attention paid to skulls of children? witness talks about sutures and how the skull is not sealed.
Spitz war spitze, this is an amateur
I wonder why CONGRESS..did not choose these Drs..Rather than Spitz
if they have MORE knowledge?
Hey! Perelandra – I’m In Raleigh – but I’m from Indiana. My daughter is in Asheville. Where are you in Oregon?
It’s all about we have to save/preserve Dr. G. She is def part of the big political machine going on there in ORL. So we have to discard Dr. Spitz.
/blam
And I wonder if these Drs have performed any where near 60,000 autopsies..around the world?
anthropologists don’t have any documentation recommending the sawing open of a skull.
documents regarding genocide, do they recommend sawing of skull? objection.
This may sound dumb, but did they confirm scientifically that the skeleton was Caylee?
baez cross exams witness about the video? It was powerpoint. With photoshop? Objection beyond scope. sustained.
you are not really qualified to comment on forensic pathology, are you? objection.
you can’t really testify to what dr. spitz should or should not do during an autopsty? objection. sustained.
Hello everyone,
Thank you for your kind wordss regarding my mom. No I still haven’t talked to her and I will not call as per her wishes.
Has anyone else noticed CA and GA wearng the same color? Boy she does stand by her man, I believe their telling everyone that their bonded together even after KH testimony. I agree Nan, I believe she set KC up too along with GA.
Go Baez !!
Dr Schultz in his report of the bones said he could only measure and compaire to standard pediactric measurements.
well, i love ya anyway Nan, even you ain’t a tar heel.
Tami! thats what I am saying — I don’t think they ever did
Witness: We’ll call it the large hole.
Baez: why do you look in there?
Witness: stains, injuries, pathologies, etc.
Nan
You may have missed my link, but you are right on re: finger to mouth.
http://www.bemyastrologer.com/body_language_plus.html#mouth
does this mean anthropath can do autop? of course not — right?
OSCaseyAnthony Casey Anthony News
Ashton just put large pic of skull down facing Casey. she turned quickly. Baez got up and moved it.
Baez give’m both barrels! lol Judge P is pissin me off tho. ASSton is worried or he wouldnt keep objecting!
SAM…The jury has to see the number of questions Baez is NOT allowed to
ask..and what those questions PERTAIN to..It is sooooo obvious!..As a matter
of fact..they don’t know what is said in the media..They don’t know who thinks
Baez is doing a good or bad job. They are not lawyers..they only know what they
see. If I was in that position..I would WANT to hear ALL questions and answers..
Wouldn’t you agree?
shoddy autopsy shoddy autopsy shoddy autopsy …. yeah … defending the Sptzman
Let’s go Fat AssTon. Open an Asston “Fart Canister” and tell the Dr to take a whiff. Last Chance!!
HAHAHA..has not even read the autopsy reports LOLOL or toxicology reports
return from sidebar.
sir, you did not do the cranial washes in this case? no sir.
as part of your job you reviewed the autopsy report? an autopsy was not done on this case. it was a bone investigation.
my question was, i’m not asking if you did one. i’m asking if you reviewed the 23 page one done by Dr. G? no. i haven’t seen it.
how about the report be dr…. No. I haven’t seen it.
You haven’t reviewed the autopsy report or toxicology report. Objection. Sustained.
Baez asks for a moment.
wooo DR Warren HASNT READ THE TOX REPORT OR THE AUTOPSY REPORT? huh?
Witness excused. 15 minute recess.
Perelandra – sory bout that – I do admit to being a free spirit and freethinker tho – however my son IS a tar heel – born at OLD REX
Beautiful! This is def beg to show the acts of desperate people, and I really think that the THs have to have comments on these rebuttal witnesses. Poor showing for the PT, me thinks.
/blam
SIMPLY F******* AMAZING..HE HAS NOT EVEN READ THE REPORTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO BAEZ! I SAID “BIG” PRAYERS TODAY!
snoop,
That’s a whoooo rah!
/blam
tami – thanks for the link – we used sign that in the classroom all the time
Snoop, I sure do agree. But I can’t tell if that is because I hope and wish and pray and feel like my very own future depends on it….
I really did not like that last witness. I got a really bad vibe from him. Probably because he seemed to plan his discounting of Dr. Spitz.
I would trust Dr. Spitz over that guy, any day. The Foramin may mean large hole compared to say, a pinhole. It is not a large hole. Dr. Spitz even mentioned that.
Snoop,
Absolutely. It has to be more than obvious that the judge is shutting down the DT questions at every turn. 12 people can’t be completely stupid. Some of them have to see it.
i told you gals and guys last night that truth comes from God……….. and we prayed. Some “big” prayers / yep. for the truth to prevail.
/blam
How many more witnesses did she say they have?
/blam
Plus Spitz proved the skull had even moved before we knew about kronk doing it
JBMission – can you set up a poll here on how we think the jury will vote.
================================
Yes Nan, I think I’ll do that over the weekend, Good Idea!
jb
Here’s another way of looking at Dr. Warren’s testimony:
You’ve read the Michigan report on UN Human Rights w/ever, yes sir.
but you have read the 23 page report from Dr. Garavaglia on this case, no sir.
and you haven’t read that other guy’s toxicology report on this case, no sir.
No further questions your honor.
as in, over and out
/blam
ruzzerious & Tami – I am not sure what DNA was used to determine that the actual skeleton was Caylee’s. Anyone? I know the hair DNA matched, correct?
re GA/CA’s public persona. it’s all a show… imo. i’ve been watching their body language, what little we can see of it. there is clear distance there. i doubt CA learned anything new about him during trial that she didn’t already know. i think we can start creating odds on whether or not they’re going to stay together after… she could stay because it demonstrates how Christian and forgiving she is. and re who is the more controlling question… i can’t weigh in on that… they both are, and they’re both getting exactly what they need from each other, or they wouldn’t be there. CA gets the semblance of being in charge and has what she thinks is a hot stud on her arm, and priot to all of this, the perfect home and family, and GA gets to sit around on his butt ordering pizzas and surfing car, sports, and escort sites, and maybe acting out some sick kiddie sex fetish, that she *allows* him to get away with. btw, haven’t ‘studied’ the net data that closely, but gist of GA’s habits are occasionally load a job search site, usually the first thing he does, but briefly, then sometimes orders pizza or quiznos early in the mornings, sends ecards, shops for cars, ebays, and typically ends with the escort sites. nothing in the kiddie porn category has jumped out at me so far, and i think if it was a real compulsion with him that it would be more obvious. but i don’t think the lack of that being there excludes the possibility of him having abused KC.
I have knowledge that at least one of the jurors is very smart. Don’t worry
Yellow Dog,
Garavaglia told jurors that a portion of the right tibia was sent to the FBI for DNA testing and came back as a match for Caylee.
Excuse me for bringing this up again but does the state admit Cindy was looking for chlorophyll ?
And both the state and DT stipulated to the fact that the remains were Caylee’s.
I heard that in court.
/blam
In case anyone wanted to read it, here is a PDF of JP’s orders concerning closing arguments.
http://www.wesh.com/pdf/28422064/detail.html
Femaleclown,
It is in her depo from 7/09 on about page 150 that was given to LDB. i found that depo on ine somewhere and read that portion. then in the video of that depo it is surely there. And they are there when she said it.
/blam
JimLichtenstein Jim Lichtenstein
Uh oh. The Kardadhian sisters behind me may get kicked out for snapping pix of the Anthonys in the hall. Deputies all over em. #caseyanthony
6 minutes ago
yea, Trex, but there was no DNA results from anybody, only discriptions. Shultz said because of decay, and another, Una, helped. The only DNA from Caylee is from the test done at birth with Grund, and that was done at the hospital
Femaleclown @ 3:28 pm,
we sure did…… so when RK said it, that should have def clicked in the juror’s mind……. Dr. Spitz had said the same thing.
/blam
Ok Blam but what I mean is the state refutes all searches of Cindy …. or just Chloroform ? because the 2 words were searched a the same time … I mean what murder weapon would Chlorophyll be ? Tooth paste ?
ruzzerious
July 1, 2011 at 3:37 pm
yea, Trex, but there was no DNA results from anybody, only discriptions. Shultz said because of decay, and another, Una, helped. The only DNA from Caylee is from the test done at birth with Grund, and that was done at the hospita
******88
ok SO was there or wasnt there DNA test done? IF NO DNA DONE only using JG paternity then it could go along with KMillers theory….
Perry quote Pre-trial. Remember this one? Pretty much Perry before jury selection admitted to the media that a free trial was not assured. His first Hail Mary pass!
“Because of the extraordinary pre-trial publicity in this case, we had to deny the right of a person to be tried by a jury of their peers in the county of Orange, Florida,” Perry said on Monday. “Now we have to travel to a location where we hope the saturation of media coverage hasn’t tainted the jury pool.
This is another weird thing going on now … Perry looks washed out …
@omnicait, thanks for the link.
Femaleclown
that’s a good point,
but def the chloroform and how to make chloroform,
since they want to say that as her mother she is lying to protect her from the dp..
/blam
how many more witnesses did LDB say they have when JP asked?
/blam
Fair trial – I meant – not assured before jury selection even started was implied by Perry.
i gotta get some real stuff done… yikes…. jpmiss could you open a new thread on the possibility that GA had begun to abuse Caylee. if he is a pedophile she was probably getting to the age where his ‘beautiful little girl’ would be useful to jo jo. maybe you guys have broached this before… i’ve been reluctant to bring it up, but to me it might explain why KC didn’t report whatever happened and why GA is in on the cover-up. What if Caylee did drown, but not by accident. What if KC emerged from her rm and discovered jo jo doing something obviously inappropriate with Caylee… maybe KC assumed Caylee was safe in the home till she was older? anyway, KC walks in on this scene, goes ballistic, grabs Caylee and in desperation she goes out the patio door to the yard… she just wants the hell out of there. remember KC was up till after 3AM, she’s had little sleep, probably had a super duper blowout with mom the night before… anyway… KC is still in her pjs, Caylee is dressed because toddlers dress themselves at that age…. CA did leave the ladder on the pool… KC climbs in with Caylee maybe to soothe her, maybe to distract her from what just happened… but she gets the idea that Caylee would be better off dead that being subjected to that abuse and holds her under the water in what her mind perceives as an act of love.
the accidental drowning is hard to swallow, as why would GA need to cover that up, unless he’s so afraid he’ll get blamed, CA will leave him… i didn’t mean to go on so long on this, but i could volumes…. hope it’s not too disgusting/improbable to consider.
ha well I think this is the point of this witness … he will prove there never was a search for chkorophyll
Sgt Stenger is back. Maybe it’s time to examine him about what he knew and when he knew it regarding about the errors in the Cacheback program results.
Maybe Perry WILL be removed from the bench! God’ll getcha if ya don’t watch out!
perelandra – I have imagined almost the same scenario – she could have submerged Caylee to wash her and who knows what might have happened after that. Horrible and totally plausible in my mind.
TRex, is this the actual temp inet dir., or are these reconstructed from deleted files?
Well, there you go, a search for “chloroform habit”. So one of KC’s friends had a habit and she was investigating. Thanks for clearing that up Sgt Stenger.
OMG, they don’t know when/how often the cache was cleared!!! shit, this is bogus!
I have seen no photo of Caylee among the huge volume published in which she looked like a drugged child. Eyes clear no dark circle – but on the visit to Cindy’s father being held by
a vacant eyed Grandpa she looked terrified. i believe that was the last photo taken before she disappeared.
I just read an account by a chloroform habitue – Caylee did not look like anyone who had been regularly knocked out.
Somehow this all appears like BS to me ….
perelandra,
I think the firefox search history was found in unallocated space — thus a deleted history.
Baez yeahh again
See Geraldo Rivera in the front row behind JB when he is at the podium.
/blam
thus is bogus TRex. if you search on google for something and get suggested searches and click on one the links, the url that is cached is google.com/query/details/etc… doesn’t mean you sat down w/blank search page and typed it in!!!
I am fairly certain that I heard GA say that – he loved changing Caylee’s diapers. I do not know one man who says anything like that. It hit me as a very wrong thing for a grandfather to say.
CFNews13Casey Casey Anthony News13
by JimLichtenstein
Court admin saying Closing statements will be SUNDAY!!! Judge is giving Attorneys time to prepare Saturday. #CaseyAnthony -jfell
4 minutes ago
how much you want to bet that CA was sending BB msgs to JB during that direct? MOO.
/blam
ok is he gonna get ms osborn? lol
Here’s the question: Once the verdict is in will Casey tell her story?
i think the chloroform to drug Caylee is bogus, but what did KC do with this toddler in the months preceding all of this. Toddlers this age start resisting naps… how did KC spend her days/afternoons with Caylee in tow…
Was Ga working – Casey left Caylee with GA A LOT.
well, this is going to be a hallmark case for using deleted computer data for evidence… any savvy 14 y/o geek can tell you this is all crap.
blam, what are BB messages? I can’t keep up with all the abbreviations lol
Cindy testified that Caylee often was taken care of by GA while she and Casey were working.
oh, thank gawd… JB is finally getting to this. deleted files.
btw, KC had her own laptop and primarily used that computer!
Perelandra – I agree. I wonder if the defense was allowed to have an expert of their own search the hard drive.
shit there comes Yuri Melich again …..
C Cleaner software does this with its free version not sure if this is what they are talking ablut:
..when you delete something from your computer, say a picture, what’s erased is the address or direction of the file, the picture is still in your computer but the location in the hard drive is open to receive (write) new information on it, when your system writes something in that location is when the picture is really deleted.
This feature will wipe the data that is still kept on that space that you think is ‘free’. This is how data recovery programs can get back your data.
JimLichtenstein Jim Lichtenstein
Looks like Yuri Melich will be the final rebuttal witness.m #caseyanthony
2 minutes ago
is JB gonna do that rare DT named rebuttal?
I am a few minutes behind you all, I had pushed pause on my feed by accident earlier. Ms Osborn is just now being crossed by Baez for me.
tami,
BB – blackberry
/blam
tami they elected not to do so, and i’m really bothered that they didn’t do a better job of debunking this whole line of evidence. they didn’t even need to examine/analyse it… they just needed to call someone/expert to refute the validity of it, and they didn’t do that. that would have been really simple and taken this whole line off the table.
Nan, you can recover files, whole files, fragments etc., but not always. just because it’s not there now, or any evidence of it ever having been there, doesn’t mean it never was! that’s the point i’m trying to make.
gosh this vicious ….
16th… everyone’s always pointed to KC’s ‘flurry’ of calls around 4pm as a time that she panicked. I think GA told her to make those calls.
Geraldo twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/GeraldoRivera
The Anthony jury will probably return a verdict of guilty of aggravated manslaughter- Casey will be sentenced to something less than life – 3 hours ago
they have to let Baez talk …. outrageous …. booohhhhhhhhhhh
don’t recall don’t recall don’t recall……..
Baez don’t give up
Ym took their statements. He knows they had multiple phones but JP wouldn’t let it in. Duh!!!
Maybe after sidebar.
Cindy was at work – where was GA? Does he have an alibi?
really bad …. really bad …..
this show how much they never really searched for anyone other than KC
even when given info……….
/blam
why is there an officer at sidebar? anyone?
GA seems to have done a lot of free floating and I do not remember that he was ever closely questioned on what he did when and where? Anybody have these answers?
you think JB is ready to do some ass kicking on jeffy and jp?
Tami,
tks for the twitter feed on GR. I really don’t care for him much, but boy has he beenon this case and he has said numerous times that the PT overreached and that JB saved her on opening statement from the dp.
now, he thinks she is guilty, but he felt the Pt overreached.
/blam
What are the pings on his 4 cell phone records.
Hello to all….i want to share 2 quick thoughts…1st off KC is young ok? Not in her 50′s ….Im about 10 years older than her..i say that to say im MY experience as far cholrorform,..Chloroform is something that would be so FARFETCHED its unbelieveable.. Perhaps for those who grew up in the era with Dick Tracy solving crime on t.v. people would put chloroform on a rag ..& whoosh they pass out…in the modern era..I have NO IDEA who dick tracy really is.. sorry… Ive never seen him..choloroform? what a joke? How about Xanax,benadryl,chlortrimeton,tylenol p.m.?
or Special K? (cat tranquilizers), Oxycontin or oxy codone which they call Oxy’s … Ok those are things young kids are talking about..(horribly and unfortunately)… those are the drugs that can EASILY be bought in the club scene or “on the street” ranging from $5 a pill on up…so the PRACTICALITY of this chloroform nonsense…OMG! for a 50 year old maybe… but a 20 year old? I hadnt heard the word chloroform in? I dont know ? As far as the search if KC had a laptop of her own, and CA had her own work laptop, who does that leave at home searching the most from the P.C.?
Does anyone know if this is true?? Found on Wiki, so not sure it is vald???
“In March 2009, Circuit Judge Stan Strickland, who was presiding over the case at the time notified Florida Bar Association about ethical concerns on Baez. The concerns involved allegations that Baez directed investigator Dominic Casey to “walk away” if he found Caylee Anthony’s body during 2008 search and contact Baez instead of law enforcement.[4] In December 2010, Judge Belvin Perry fined Baez for not complying with court order. The State Attorney’s Office released information on tampering investigation against Baez.[5] He later apologized to the court and prosecutors.”
irisheyescu2 it’s getting generally fidgety
there will be no court tommorrow according to WFTV
YES – who was home alone – with Caylee – most of the time?
Nan,
that’s the whole point; the DT never got GA cell phone records, only that month. And he has other phones. I think the PT only has that month as well, for one phone.
/bl
I know irisheyes – I thought I noticed a lot more cops there today, or at least more than norm.
Bella, 4:37pm,
Beautiful comment. Exactly! Not to mention how to make chloroform. Give me a break. JB wrote an article on that here on this site several weeks ago. I mean really, she ould have to be a chemist. Totally ABSURB.
The state is grabbing.
/blam
ruzzerious,
have you also noticed there’s a cop always standing behind KC after that competency hearing last Saturday?
WELL i must google turd, Because i will at some point, well let me be more specific I’m premeditating a planned trip to the bathroom to take a dump
Nan 4:35pm,
At 3pm he was supposedly at work,
that’s why the DT in their theory has te accident happening in the early morning hours of the 16th.
CA leaves around 7:15;
that leaves KC, Caylee and GA in the hhouse / that’s what she says.
/blam
during the approx. 3 hr. dead zone period on the 16th, GA and KC wrapped Caylee either put her in the playhouse for the night or drove her to some wooded area for as a temporary fix. I GA came up with some kidnapping story, hence the side gate left open, but KC was in shock and wasn’t able to follow through on it. The 17th they did some more burial prep together. He prob. told her to go the shovel from BB, and together they attempted to bury her on Suburban dr.
Remember the yard/patio renovation that GA/CA engaged in during this time? That’s the 3 white pavers. they used them to mark the grave. but animals disturbed the grave, Kronk sees it and yadda, yadda, yadda…. they might have used the vacant house on brackenwood at some point.
also, real good point about the purse being in the seat of the car. sure fire way to get your car broken into. And KC said some guys helped her push it to the parking spot? I don’t know if GA had the car during this time, but I suspect he did…. lose end is why KC went with Amy to buy gas cans, and then went to the car… omg…. who found the notice on the front door? Was it CA? Maybe GA intentionally planned to have it towed, and ignore the notice, or destroy it, and CA tripped him up and found it. He knew that after 30 days the car would be demolished? JB questioned him if that was the first or second notice… multiple notices from the PO and GA had destroyed the first one or two, but missed the final one…. that’s where it all went wrong!
I would like to think that the jury believes this chloroform business is as farfetched as we do.
Isn’t that the state’s last witness? Bec if yes, Ithink there rebuttal was very, very WEAK.
I mean they took shots ,but our little short guard/forward over there blocked each one…. IMHO.
comments?
/blam
Bella I agree …. I mean how DO you make chloroform anyway …. Make it ? no …. and where do you keep the stuff , how when what ? how much ? then what …. How do you know how it works etc… ridiculous ,,,
tami
Believe it or not, there a few TH that believe it’s far fetched too. I heard them on orlando’s fox channel online.
Why would GA not look for that car ? He SHARED it with Casey. it was HIS car too. and where are those phones and the records? Why did Ga get all the Hil Mary passes ? I’ll tell you why – because Cindy was protecting HIM = She is nuts!
Perelandra,
I buy/can see your 2nd and 3rd paragraph but not the first, bec I thought KC had left the house on the 16th and they didn’t see her for a month, except on the 24th when she returned the gas cans. If I have that wrong, someone pls correct me, bec that’s the way I wrote my theory based on the fact that she had left (and I concede it might have been later than I had it), but I did not think she returned other than the shovel incident (which was about an hour) and on the 24th.
This 30 day timeline is what I based my theory on……… after 7/16th all bets are off, bec we know that chaos ensued.
right?
/blam
===================================================
blam,
Please check any one of the timelines. U’ll see that KC returned several times to the A’s after June 16th. There’s a good timeline on the sidebar of this site. I use it often for quick reference.
JB
riley!! LOL, I’m glad you’re able to document this event on my blog. Ya never know when you’ll need to refresh your memory. Glad to be of service sir..
Irisheyescu2,
explain what you mean pls re the THs on Orl Fox station.
/blam
So closing arguments until 5-6pm Sunday. Then the jury has 4-5 hours to deliberate if they want to get home for their 4th of July Barbeque. SAO couldn’t have time this better if they tried. Wait, no one would stoop that low in a death penalty case.
Honestly – Cindy and GA are like the stuff we hate to see on all thos documantaries about seeming NICE people – especially NICE NEIGHBORS – GRRRR – ONE OF THE NEIGHBORS SAID THAT GA WAS ALWAYS WITH CAYLEE AND THAT SHOWED HOW MUCH HE LOVED HER!!!!
ARRRRGGGGHHHH… WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE?
do the jurors go home after a verdict or do they stay for the penalty phase too? I guess we have a day off tomm good. My grandbaby turns 2, ahhh. I saw where someone asked if the family visits on Sun, they prob get to see tomm…So I guess the 4th will be the start of the countdown.
Tami, since the spectators say few jurors took notes, most likely buying PT theory and not even questioning who, what, where, why and how. No evidence that anyone made or obtained chloroform.. If made, where are the ingredients? Where is the mask they’d have to use to keep from being overcome themselves? Trying to prove premeditation required for dp. Crazy.
everytime I see CA, makes me think of:
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwBirf4BWew&w=425&h=349%5D
Femaleclown @ 4:47pm,
EXACTLY! but that is what the state is claiming! and that is why they need the chloroform so badly. And how do you store it? once you made it? at what temperature? read JB’s article that she wrote several weeks ago about How to Make Chloroform?
and this would be from our friend, Ms. KC, who didn’t graduate high school, well finally did, but almost didn’t.
/blam
Forgot to add the “when”.
I did not find it necessary to call several witnesses to prove Cindy lied. I believe this was punishment more than anything else. Why didn’t they give her the opportunity to refresh her memory? In this way they not only impeached her but opened the door for charges. Anyone that followed the case and read the docs knew she lied to begin with. I can’t believe the arrogance! They asked her last week if she had a MySpace account in March 2008 and she said no. They had her right then and there. It would have meant that her and casey were home at the same time playing ping pong with the desk top. Instead, a whole day of needless testimony to make her look bad.
Most of the questions Baez wanted to ask would not have been objected to in their proper form. This has been his demise through most of the trial while people want to believe the judge is biased. It pisses me off with the dozen attorneys Baez has access to with much more trial experience and not used. Ann Finnell showed the greatest court room and trial knowledge of the DT. Her questions were on target correct in form and procedure. Baez is not a bad attorney but a very inexperienced trial attorney at this point and a case of this magnitude.
Moral to the story: It does not pay to lie and the Anthony family is guilty of denial and constant lying to cover what they don’t want people to know. How does anyone not understand how casey came to be! At this point if there is a conspiracy it involves George, Cindy, Lee and Casey. One or more became the judge, jury and executioner for a little girl that deserved to have a life.
Surrebuttal coming.
Guess not unless he put CA up.
so now I’m afraid …. this rebuttal thing was bad …. Impeaching the only testimony that would have saved Casey , that is the one about Chloroform …
shit… pardon my language…. i know why KC went w/Amy to buy the gas cans… GA told her to, he probably gave her the money for the cans. ph records show KC is in contact with GA during this time, plus she is seeing him in person at the house. KC isn’t smart enough to have the car towed and destroyed to destroy evidence, but GA is and even referenced his tow yard retrieval experience.
I have to believe that the reason that the jury has not been taking notes is that they have no hard evidence to write down top confirm Casey is in any way connected forensically to the event.
Common sense has to prevail.
Dpets… too bad the statue of limitations has run on out on Ants… Fl should charge GA and CA with child neglect and endangerment. her development didn’t happen, she got stunted somewhere way back when, which i think is what happens at the point that abuse begins…
Did anyone catch in Sgt Stenger’s testimony today, how many searches included the word “Chloroform”?
Can this be a Perry/Mason moment – his statement to the jury is great!
…. Masson is speaking well but a little too late and it will make no difference now …
Havent’ had too much time to watch all of the drivel today — but…. something is so very wrong … JB you are an angel to have this SAFE PLACE …. XOXOOXO didn’t get another chance to send you mail -but I will —- you are so amazing!
we all now how jp will rule…DENIED
JP — is hateful!!!!
I hope the jury has a great weekend and that they have their thinking caps on.
Nan there is no jury
Casey looks very bad , poor thing ….
blam,
Try one of these
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread431159/pg2
or check the Hinkymeter.com..Val has a very accurate timeline.
If Cindy really lied about her dogs and chlorophyll it was quite a story … as big a story as that of her daughter’s
Femaleclown,
that motion by CM was to preserve the record for appeal. They knew it would be denied.
/blam
O damn! I was duped – but I still hope that the jury wherever they are now and this weekend will be wearing their thinking caps – the pundits are rejoicing over Casey’s look of fear and helplessness and no control – she looks frantic – upset – its hitting home – they are vultures and ghouls – talking about the goin’ fishin’ talk -
Can anyone tell me
1: what time is court on Sunday
and
2. noting tomorrow, right?
so I can do my cleaning, chores, etc. all that I have not done, do in one day in high gear. Pls. let me know.
/tks for all
/blam
perelandra – That was my theory on the car. The first couple of notices were probably sent by regular mail which GA probably threw out. The final notice was probably registered mail and a notice was left on the front door that the letter would have to be picked up at the Post Office because no one was home when the mailman attempted to deliver it. The notice on the front door was found by Cindy and she gave it to GA.
I think George had intended to just leave the car, ignore the notices and let it be hauled away for scrap. Voila, no more evidence!
did anyone else catch what JB said to CM? when JP asked if anyone had heard of the murder of judge chillingsworth…
JP; did they ever find his body?
CM; no, but they found blood
JP; he went out fishing and never came back
JB mumbles to CM…travesty
LOL
blam,
No court on Sat tomorrow.
Closing Args at 9am sunday.
JBM – thanks -abovetopsecret.com is a very interesting website that my daughter and I use for several different sources of info.
Sweet dreams everybody!
Wait a minute – WHY did JP ask about Chillingsworth? I missed that.
Trex , no there was no mention of how many times the word was searched and I think Baez didn’t make things clear enough for thr jury and the yahoo page etc … I knew what he meant but my neighbour would not know …
The defense team had good ideas but not good enough demonstrations they should have been more pedagogical .
The Prosecution had stupid ideas but a better technic of argumentation …
I am not very confident about the outcome …
jp brought up the ‘judge chillingsworth’ case as a warning to anyone that was going to try and dispose of him.
JPis an idiot –
chillingworth did not go out fishing – he and his wife were kidnapped – taken in aboat out to sea and dropped with lead weights – the murderer confessed years later – and he did not get the death penalty.
The FACTS remain. this whole case was fabricated by the st. of fl. except dancing and a tatoo.How could anybody with any common sense , Here, on tv, or jury not see this for what it is. IMO TOTALBULLSHIT. I predict, NOT GUILTY!
I repeat – JP – WHAT A MOROON…EHHH, WHAT’S UP DOC?
well guys, some small but important things going for the make up of the jury pool. There a cpl nurses on there..so a good bit of this could very well make sense to them, on behalf of the defense team. There are two IT guys on there, who undoubtedly can understand the search things and the hard drive, etc…on behalf of the defense team. There was one guy on there who wanted to figure the mystery to all this out, hopefully, he has sat on this trial unbiased, looking to piece things together in a sensible way and with an open mind. With that..I have a day to get my stuff done cuz I don’t want to miss closing arguments!!…lol…
Yellow-
Glad to see you survived the in-law dinner!
Blam- How is beautiful Miami today?
femaleclown, the computer evidence is over my head. Will it be obvious to the IT specialist that this info can be interpreted in other ways?
If the jury comes back with anything but not guilty or outright acquittal – I may lose my faith in humanity – I want PROOF!
Femaleclown,
Thanks. That makes sense. I heard CSI Stenger mention a search for “chloroform habit”. Then I got distracted by a phone call. So if there were a lot of searches for “chloroform”, LDB would have made Stenger read every one to the jury. But there was only the one. So I’d just ask, which of Casey’s friends has the habit?
That means there was only 1 hit for “chloroform” and does not show a determined interest by whoever performed the searches — very casual in fact. Certainly does not constitute evidence of pre-meditation. And I am still not convinced there was anything more than normal chloroform levels ( from household chemicals in the trash) in the trunk (per the FBI expert).
State has failed it’s Murder 1 case IMO. Baez will put this all together in Closing Args.
Have a great evening and Saturday all!!
danielle , I am really not sure at all … I mean , we can do some research and stuff to work it out , not the jury but unless some jurors have definite knowledge I think the state has hammered the strange thing about chloroform in a way that can only be interpreted in their favor …
To me, today’s rebuttal of Cindy was terrible …because they really got what they wanted ; premeditation …
after that , the evidence is a kind of anecdote …. This case presenttion was devious … almost perverse …
thanks Nan,
I didn’t know anything about chillingworth, was looking it up when you asked the question as to why JP asked that question. You’re right.
Goodnight
riley – I wish I was as sure as you are about the outcome. I see today as a huge blow to the defense. JMO
femaleclown-
There are 2 IT guys on the jury that will understand perfectly what it all means and how it woks. They will know how FOS the state is on what they said regarding the computer searches and such
Trex , funny because I have just stated the opposite feeling… I hope i’m wrong … thing is , Baez didn’t pick up on that … he was more focused on explaining away neck breaking …
How many people here don’t know how many searches for chloroform was made???There was only one! Who don’t think the jury did not hear that the computer searches were made up by the state? THEY KNOW THIS, just because the IDIOT TALKING HEADS DONT MENTION IT does not mean the jury didn’tHEAR IT!
i really will leave you all alone now – and I do feel good knowing about Juror #4, 2 IT guys and 2 nurses on the jury. i think there is a chance for a fair verdict even thought the trial was not.
Ha ok Misty …. let’s hope … and good house cleaning to you ….
I will be on the road sunday , nut will try to reach out here sometime monday or so …
cheerio
I think it would be a win for the defense but for the fact that this is “high profile.” The jury probably feels like they would be crucified if they don’t find her guilty of something. I predict manslaughter………..probably 15 years with three years already served.
but not nut
though eventually …. sometimes ….
I still don’t know riley, that’s why I’m asking. I wanted to be sure it would be straightforward to an IT specialist because I’m a lay person and it wasn’t clear to me.
Y-D the state grasping at the”new neck breaking theory” just shows me how desperate the st. is.. wait to closing:)
the abovetopsecret.com time-line doesn’t jive others i’ve seen… not at all… i’ve got to resist researching this. i’m developing OCD!!! help….. have a great weekend guys…. love ya all!
JB totaly DESTROYED 83 of the chloroform searches. I personaly dont think it strange 4 a 22 yr. old to google it 3 days after her boyfriend puts ”win her over with chloroform” on his my space page.
JB— what are we going to do .?????
Thorazine Shuffle,
Yeah, I think I agree. True, jury must feel pressure to deliver some punishment as justice for Caylee. The biggest issue for the DT is they didn’t approach the question of ‘if an accident then why hide the body’? I’m sure that JP prevented them from pursuing areas that may have touched on it. And a crappy investigation by LE plus with-holding evidence from the DT was a major issue.
Damaged Pets you said >
Most of the questions Baez wanted to ask would not have been objected to in their proper form. This has been his demise through most of the trial while people want to believe the judge is biased. It pisses me off with the dozen attorneys Baez has access to with much more trial experience and not used. Ann Finnell showed the greatest court room and trial knowledge of the DT. Her questions were on target correct in form and procedure. Baez is not a bad attorney but a very inexperienced trial attorney at this point and a case of this magnitude>>>>>>
_______________________________________________________________________
I have to agree with that in 2 ways..i think Baez Should have definitely fine tuned those questions over and over again prepping whenever he could however he could to assure if nothing else the questions are delivered properly..Ok Im not a lawyer..but Id say that a lot of HOW the questions are argued against relate to case law…his lack of experience with how that law is practiced is 1 thing. few folks know more about recent case law than new atty’s…its the foundation for law school, its the nuts and bolts of the bar exam…& USUALLY when most new lawyers come out they spend A LOT of time as an associate drafting arguments based on case law for older more experienced PARTNERS…missing that professional step has totally affected Baez’s ability to effectivel argue a case..
Also having a lot of lawyers? well what does that mean?
Depends on the time they’re willing to commit to the case…If they all come from big firms themselves, those firms usually have a HUGE staff of folks at their disposal
1) team of legal secretaries to file timely motions & organize schedules depo’s etc..
2) team of para legals to help strategize, research case law and findings,
3) team of associates to draft the arguments based on the case law and findings etc..
4) Partners (eg.Baez,CM,etc) highest paid who actually litigate
JB looks like he runs a TINY firm…who would rely upon the lawyers helping him mason etc… to be the replacements for all of the folks I just mentioned..Although JB may have a team right there, who knows if these lawyers have been willing to DONATE the time outside of the courtroom to help JB draft the questions?
I dont know…? I honestly was terribly underimpressed with the more seasoned lawyers on the DT’s effectiveness..
I saw them ALL miss lots of opprotunities to create a cohesive Defense response…
Nan
July 1, 2011 at 5:11 pm
Per your comment on being duped……..up until trial started many of us were still looking for Zanny. It was believed that LE did not do their job. The duping (lying) started July 15, 2008 yet many wanted to believe different.
I still don’t see a guilty verdict based on the evidence provided but too many cases that have come before this one have set precedence on what a jury will believe about circumstantial evidence. In fact cases of this type always have forensics or physical evidence but it’s the circumstances that tie it all together.
My hat off to my friend Zuben for the tireless hours of investigation by a lay person that brought an enormous amount of insight to this blog and helped many others in researching.
After three years of following, reading all the docs and watching the videos…….my biggest fear in life is not LE or the judicial system but having a family in the neighborhood that could resemble the Anthony family. I grew up in a major city and diverse population but in my 57 years I have never come across an entire family like this. There is always one in every family that is questionable but not the whole crop!
Thanks to all……
Trying to catch up on all the comments. It’s a shame you all can’t do this for a living. There have been some really great points made. Just a thought, could JB announce in closing that he was mislead about some of the info he used for the opening statement? I think he would like to be able to say, it was an accident and my client did all the wrong things afterward, but she is not guilty of murder. This never should have been a death penalty eligible trial.
I slept for twelve straight hours the other night. I guess all these hours finally caught up to me. Hoe do you suppose the folks who are responsible for the trial and all that goes with it are managing? I’m pretty sure I would be in the hospital or locked up. I’m sure I will suffer some withdrawal but I do feel fortunate to have forums where others are as obsessed as I am.
One shining thought; hopefully we will have seen (and heard) the last of the “bounty hunter” and his merry band of miscreants.
Ok have to also interject here…In a sec Ill post the FULL profiles of the jurors..
but there ARE no IT specialists on the jury
I’ve been keeping notes on what the jury has and has not heard.AND ,yes JP tried his best to keep DT from putting on ANY EVIDENCE contary to PT. This case WILL BE OVERTURNED if any conviction of murder is returned. OR aggrivated anything.
Bella, Totally agree…..there was talent on the DT never used. In the end I feel they were fighting an uphill battle because of perception. The thing about casey lying to LE is one thing but after three years because of an accident?………I think she got the best of her own attorneys and what she may or may not have said to psychiatrists to formulate the end story. I have come to appreciate her art of manipulation of people as I have never seen anything like it or read a fantasy book as good.
hmmm…well damgd pets an alternate theory is that KC didnt lie for 3 years because of an accident…her lie was a part of a more complex situation…
that the lie was a part of a myriad of mental issues resulting from grief overload, and constant abuse…
as far as her getting the best of her own atty’s …hmm thats entirely possible..
The thing is we have an equation with so many variable that arent scientifically proven with extreme certaintity that we cant create a solid conclusion, or even a known formula to solve the equation…The only certainty is Caylee is no longer in the presence of her family.
x+y=z
Z=caylees remains
no DNA testing to prove they are her remains? unknown variable
z= the remains found are Caylees based on?
y= manner of death ??
y = cause of death ??
y= death ???
x = folks who could’ve caused death
x=GA
x=KC
x=RC?
x= unknown
each of those variables have POTENTIAL answers that could be true based on a percentage of likelihood..
but without any KNOWN, we cant use deductive reasoning to find the unknown, and create a conclusion that makes good sense…
THUS REASONABLE doubt
Okay all,
I didn’t realized that I was this biased to the DT, but I thought today was a win for the DT and not hte PT.
I thought JB blocked their shots very well.
/blam
I don t know how anyone could have watched that trial live stream (no commercials or commentary) and not feel completely confident about a NOT GUILTY verdict. I think JB and da crew WANTED them to try and impeach Cindy. Look, they had another IMO much better outcome with the cross exam than they had if they didnt afford themselves that “do-over”. During def. testimony JB was able to point out that the computer search evidence was potentially tampered with. BUT, jury also could have considered that it was an honest mistake and ignored it. Now, they have the tampering ALONG with a good explaination of the searches. BAM- motive (biggie) destroyed! The jury could see that Cindy has been thru a hard 3 years and over look the fact that she may have “mispoke”. I think it was a good trade:)
I also love the way they turned the PROS. rebuttal into their own platform to further discredit the pros and make their own case even stronger!
YM………………………why? Why would you continue to take the stand? Just go ahead and plead the 5th and be the next to “attempt” suicide. How did most of the U.S. know that the A’s all had those extra phones, and he had the nerve to claim he didn’t. KNOWING it was in the reports and their depos!!! He can kiss the OCSD bye bye and if he’s not getting fitted for his new suit that comes in a lovely flourescent orange that I think we would all agree will go great with his Florida tan, he will be criusin the mall with a tazar and a can of mace!! LOL!!
I love the way LDB tried to give JB the Gotcha look when she thought she was about to prove something with her already proven liar witnesses. Then she got OWNED!!!! Then she got the I can’t believe you did this to me look from YM when he moled off the stand. She gave him a “its ok, no big deal, JP will make sure she dies” look. ok maybe I read too much into that one, but She can go ahead and start filling out applications at her local unemployment office. Im sure as a former state employee she can probably get da hook up!
Maybe JA can take NG’s place. After all she took that job after she F’ed up one too many times as a pros. Her spot will be open now that everyone will know shes been lieing about “tot mom” and stuffing her Prada suits with the same Blood money she’s been callin the A’s out on for 3 years. She and LEn. P. Can go bounty huntin for RK and maybe he will do us all a favor and make sure the duct tape sticks firmly this time!!!
Casey I hope God blesses you and punishes those who have hurt you and Caylee. I hope you walk right out of Jail shoot the state of Florida a bird, collect the movie and book money that you EARNED, and take a permanant trip to London. I hear they dont allow the Media and the mobs to take advantage of their rights of free speech. Leave these A**holes behind and live your beautiful life.
THE DT done almost perfectaly well Considering PT constant OBJECTIONS and JPalways ruling in their favor,”wrongly” 99.99% of the time. & PT getting anything they wanted. ”wrongly” ruled on by JP. I mean with the deck clearly stacked against you, How could one do any better than JB?
Blam…
well my assesment is actually from watching the entire trial & how these folks have handled it all the way around…
I like an analogy you used with the the forwards, guards from sports…
Id say JB scores a lot of goals, but oftentimes loses a lot of momentum based on bad coaching on the sidelines…his defensive team strategy is a bit flawed in its execution and delivery….
(not to diminish the importance of the trial to a simple sports game) but you feel me…
ha! I hope LOL
Bella,
I think the DT is the only one who put a “face” to this story. Not the Pt. For them we have a who, but not a where or when. We have a why? She wanted to be freeof her overbearing mother and the respon of her child, so rather than let her mother keep her child, she murdered her to live the good life. That’s their theory and motive.
and it could happen in a wide range of days. It is so speculative today, just as it was 3 years ago. They have done nothing to advance it or answer things.
At least, the DT gave a plausible alternative. They gave place, time and how …….. w/ no who. For them it is not a murder case at all.
Was YM’s impeached today or made to look like a fool? Everybody but LE knew they had more cell phones. Thugs on the street have more cell phones than one. Ridiculous.
If you impeach GA and CA, then who was the last one seen w/ Caylee? Kc by default?
The A;s end up today, right now, where they were 3 years ago — manipulating everyone. 3 years ago it was just the media, now it is the media + LE + judicial system.
Let’s see what closing argments brings. I know he wanted to bring in more re the molestation, but you heard the JG hearing where his hands were tied w/ what would be allowed and w/ what as hearsay. so now, it’s time to get some dinner (I’ve got to clean and do laundry) and they have closing arguments to get straight.
/blam
/blam
Bella I was formulating mhy 6:32 post and just now am reading your 6:17 post, so reading it after I had written my 6:32, not before. Just wanted to let you know that my 6:32 is not a response to your 6:17.
/blam
YellowDog What are you so concerned about??? Huge defeat? Damage?? PLEASE, explain
Blam,
The last person that caylee was seen with, other than a lying anthony is…CINDY ANTHONY
I agree with you, riley. I thought that considering the how obviously and often Baez got stonewalled, he still got the point across. I think the only weak moment in the defense case was when CM questioned Kronk but he was up against the best coached witness in the whole trial, so he had his hands very full.
Perelandra said at 3:07 (snipped): “Nan… im in oregon now, for last 25 years, before that 7 yrs. in Summerville, SC, which i was none to happy with cuz i’m a native North Carolinian!!!! born in Raleigh, grew up in G’boro, finished HS and college in A’ville, 7 yrs there, back to Raleigh or 3 yrs… where you at sister?”
***********************************************
I just spent 8 days in Goldsboro, NC with my daughter and son in law!!! Cool place….
KMiller @ 6:17pm,
I am a wordsmith and people tell me often that I have a gift w/ words, but that post is right on, and that is EXACTLY what I saw!
And as far as YM goes, you said at 6:17 what I was writing that got posted at 6:32/ you beat me to it, but I promise you, I hadn’t seen yours. Honestly, as Lead detective on this case, this case that has media attention bigger than OJ………….. you didn’t know.
so we have GA w/ his sleezy ways, and you w/ yours.
that was the state’s “bang”
but it ended in my mind w/ a “whimper.”
As you said, he moled off the stand……….. pitiful / PITIFUL!
All these THs can say that JB is this or that, but he had his hands tied behind his back and some wacko witnesses in the parents of the defendants, both of whom were State’s witnesses. Oh yeah, and during the state’s rebuttal, it was the DT who handled the ball. Each time a PT witness got up and tried for the big 3 point shot, that little short DT lawyer (JB) blocked it.
and it was quick. He didn’t take all day and the jury had to love him for it.
I can tell you that I know there was 1 search for chloroform, not 84. but I honestly don’t know if CA left work early on 3/17 or 3/21 bec she could have based on the PTO report and shut off her monitor but not her computer. That would look like she was still there, right? But she wasn’t and geez, we all do know that people do leave early. Some companies are much stricter than others about rules and I agree it was a health management, but people do cover for others and we know it happens.
IMHO, the DT ruled today.
Now, I am going to go bk as JB gave me a direction on a timeline at another site and look at it.
enjoy your evening,
/blam
Oh I almost forgot- While Im sending positive energy Casey’s way, I hope you and JB fall madly in love, have little JB’s running around, and eat ends of licorice like lady n the tramp til their sick, LOL!!!
Omar, Well, i be durn I know all those places U been well. I even have a daughter-in -law from Bend Oregon
MWM @ 6:37pm
Promise this is it, at least unti later:
To clarify your post: you mean that, according to Ca’s testimony, she saw Caylee w/ ???
I thought she implied that she heard them (meaning KC and Caylee) breathing in KC’s room. But you are saying that it was w/ GA?
Cause if that is so, and that is what CA meant, then it just reconfirms my strong suspicions re Ga, which is what the other blogger had implied.
Let me know, pls. and tks.
/blam
Ok to Blam and Riley >
Riley’s perspective on things I like to hear because I know he knows 1st hand the corruption in a courtroom, so no hero syndrome when it comes to the PT..
let me state it differently I listed the resources of the large law firms above… when I watch JB I can read A LOT between the lines as I watch.. Im aware of the fact that he’s truly doing the job of MANY as 1 man.. when he misses entering evidence in a timely fashion, or his questioning doesnt flow step by step.. i know its because he doesnt have a large staff of folks helping him with the step by step… I respect that..
BUT
I also hear the moments when he asks things in a way that HE can’t ask them..so my critique is that a lot of THOSE moments the PT hops up to object, he could avoid by structuring the questions so they actually achieve the goal he’s trying to achieve..
It leaves him vulnerable to JP to rule based on the intent of the question his way, or rule in favor of the PT based on case law…Ive seen times where JP will say “Ill let it in, continue Mr.Baez” because the INTENT of the DT matches the INTENT of the case law..
My critique is that if he planned his questions in advance so when he steps up to the lecturn to question the witnesses, he’s not leaving anything to chance..
i just have to keep it real.. He cant make up for the staff or resources the PT has at its disposal, but he can make up for the dleivery of his questioning by planning them..
so those moments you all say.. why didnt the DT ask this? or that?
its because JB is asking questions based on what he knows what he wants from the witness, but hasnt always planned ahead for EXACTLY what he want to ask and how… so the witness CAN meander or answer the question however..
(btw JA does the same thing, the difference being that his witnesses are precoached & he has enough experience to know how to phrase things to stay within the law)
when you watch LDB… she takes her highly prepped witness… she has a series of well planned, well organized questions that she asks..step by step 1 by 1… when there’s an objection a lot of times she looks up a bit surprised.. but the benefit of the way she asks the questoions are
1) she’s asking a question she knows the answer to, so the jury only hears what she wants them to hear
2) if there is an objection to the question the judge rules in her favor because although at times the answer may be biased or whatever the PT is entitled to ask based on CASE LAW
3) its easy to follow the testimony so it plants a cohesive picture in your mind
4) the testimony subconsciously becomes trustworthy because of the organization of the timeline etc…
sometimes its not just about the truth, but who you trust is telling the truth…
…
with that being said I do agree JB has done a very good job rebutting this entire case..
riley – This whole computer search thing right at the end just ticked me off. It was like it had all been planned all along. I know we still have the closing statements, but I’m afraid it may appear to the jury that the DT had the rug pulled out from them at the last minute and that will stick in their memory.
Hey blam, I need to get in touch with an author/writer, any ideas???? Its NOT about me.;)
Hello all!
Just tuning in. So far, only one thing to say (and I’m just beginning to catch up)……I have NO respect for an anthropologist who can not spell foramen correctly. He spelled it F-O-R-A-M-I-N. Duhhhhh……it’s spelled with an E rather than an I.
I minored in anthropology. He is not qualified to rebutt Spitz’s testimony. He is not a pathologist…..nor a medical examiner…..period. Now we find he didn’t read the autopsy report.
I have been elbow deep in a few cadavers. I have seen every single piece and part of the human body….from tissue to nerve plexi to the sphenoid and ethmoid bones, hammer, anvil, stirrup, brain, organs……all of it. Every single itty bitty bit of a dead person I’ve held in my hands……with flesh and with only a skeleton…….and I’m NOT QUALIFIED TO DO AN AUTOPSY NOR TO DISPUTE A PATHOLOGIST.
I have a degree in History/Medical Science and a minor degree in Antropology/chemistry.
This guy has it out for Spitz….but why?
Clever guy.
Ok….back to reading and catching up.
Im sorry 1 more thing…if there is a hero JB is mine honestly.. because aside from my little nitpicky critiques, he proves that the good ole boy system can be fought..I look at his career, & aside from whatever negativity the TH’s want to throw out there.. JB has managed to work his way into representing the MOST unrepresentable client, with meager resources, limited experience…
If JB were an ivy league lawyer, from a HUGE firm like the folks that repped OJ, everyone in his family would have their own reality show by now..
but JB doesnt come from entitlement, and has WORKED very hard to do So much with this case…
Its inspiring for me as it shows that the “entitled” dont have a monopoly on the truth, or success..
Femaleclown
July 1, 2011 at 1:10 pm
Using your post as jumping point for input on Casey and able to carry Caylee. Also to remind me where I left off as I am trying to catch up. LOL
Yes, I think under stress especially she could carry her, even dead weight. BUT……
SHe did not place her in those woods and IMO did not put her in the trunk ever.
Several searches done on that site, 5-7, including several cadaver dogs, DC & JH videoing the exact area. PICTORIAL PROOF that Caylee’s remains where not there in November. If they had been there sooner, June-Nov those searches would have found it. CARION BIRDS. Where were the masses of carion birds that would have given that location away BEFORE anyone knew Caylee was “missing”? WHere ever Roy Kronk “found her” it was not those woods.
Casey said 2 things were true about what she told LE that day. 1) I did not harm my daughter
2) I DO NOT KNOW WHERE MY DAUGHTER IS
TO me this SCREAMS taken away by someone else. George is the one.
Did GA kill Caylee due to potential outting as an abuser? Possible, maybe even likely if we believe Casey’s story at all. Even if Casey was distracted playing online and George was watching his favorite cooking show and Caylee slipped out to go for a swim and drowned in a complete accident we still have the silence for 30 days. Her allegations explain that to me. What excuse would GA have for going along with it? There is none that would excuse HIM.
Hearing about the pets horrified me. Some kids may be ready at 4 or 5 others may not be. Let’s say take it on a case to case basis.
Sam, yes I know a lot about the terrible and twisted ways abusers, especially sexual abusers keep their prey silent. The above senario could be a perfect example. SInce Casey’s case started wasn’t there a family of incestuous abusers who forced their daughters & nieces , grand daughters to bear children who were killed at birth in front of them and then buried on property. There was a lot of news about it. Montana IIRC. I’d like to say I think we have much to share.
I agree that if GA was involved in disposing of Caylee’s remains at all it was to cover-up the soft tissue, offer time for it to no longer be apparent.
Ok jumping back in to catch up…
Somewhere along the line, I thought I heard CM say that JB was the surgeon and he (CM) was the closer. At the time I heard this, I took it to mean that Mason is going to do the closing arguement. I know JB has a friendlier face and delivery than CM, but CM would most likely be able to deliver a stronger closing arguement than JB can. I like JB, but I do realize that his overall inexperience has at times cost the defense some points. JA and LDB with a strong assist from JP have capitalized on JB’s inexperience a number of times. When CM did Kronk’s questioning, there were very few objections, and thats because CM knows what he is doing. His hands were tied by the fact that most of Kronk’s interviews, and depo’s were not in evidence, so he had to do some fancy dancing to get in what he did get in. He did get in that Kronk manipulated the skull, and that is huge. I am okay with either of them doing the closing, but I honestly think it would be better for KC if CM does it.
Omar, i wondered that too. There is no way an anthropologist could comment on decomposing brain matter. Glad you caught the spelling error! Did you hear how he said it means ‘large hole’ and even stopped calling it foramen?
He said ‘we’ll call it large hole’. Just how large is it?
Bella @ 7:03pm
Oh yeah, I totally agree. And I see that he has not been deterred by al lthe crap that they threw at him. Quite the contrary. He acted like, all right bring it on.
When the PT said they had requested the records from Gentiva, he said okay, and we ould like to add 7/15……… shenever saw that coming, and that was the final shot he had today w/ what’s her name. He knew what he was going for, and got it.
/blam
Omar: I have worked with physicians of varying levels for over 30 years. The majority cannot spell.
BLAM!!!!
yep thats exactly what I was heading to last night.. which is why I asked how many pets they had in the house that died & suggested that at the point of pet # 3, I see a more ritualistic pattern than a tradition…especially if the pets were KC’s…
Omar, the bottom line is w/ that Dude/
2 things:
1) when JB approached him and say “you’re the one that did that video”…. it was so/ like oh yeah/ I get my 2nd shot w/ you.
and 2
he hadn’t read Dr. G’s autopsy report.
Wow/ so we hear all this about the Michigan UN report on human rights, etc. and this and that, but
JB debunked him by:
you haven’t read the 23 page autopsy report
and you haven’t read the toxicology report?
I haveno further questions Your Honor.
/beautiful
/blam
Thanks Blam- Im always impressed with so many posts here, to have you, one of my favorite writers, compliment MY writing really means alot. everyone here is so intellegent and witty. I love just reading sometime, I just sit and catch up on posts I missed earlier and I find myself laughing out loud, literally, and talking to the screen. Ha! HA!
Good point with the work time-stamp part- I also think they made a mistake with calling that lady in particular, because she was so friendly, that I was imagining that she and CA must be friends, and she was probably had a hard time saying some things that made CA look bad. They should have chosen a woman who looked more “business orientated” or maybe didnt seem so “soft”, or a stern looking Male, but oh, well, coulda, shoulda, woulda. Hee Hee
Blam- now if i could only get this TYPING thing down………
to Omar>
I have lots of family from NC, & it SC as well… durham, greensboro,rocky mount..
All over…
I spent a lot of summers there, getting devoured by insects…lol
but i have to say I TOTALLY agree about the anthropolgy aspect,..which is why I cant see how Dr.Vass could possibly testify about ..jeez EVERYTHING he testified about..
his highest level degree the Phd was anthropologically based…
his scientifice portion was I believe a B.S.,in biology…
but then again we have a CHIEF judge who’s grammar is AWFUL!!!
I cant BELIEVE that guy was actually a lawyer, and argued cases…
I understand the colloquialisms of being from the south…but wth?
has anyone here heard this before?
I was watching orlando fox news online earlier, they had on Leonard Padilla who said, it was RK girlfriend who gave him the tip to go check the woods for Caylee. RK girlfriend works at the jail and said she over heard KC and JB talking.
I’m not saying I believe this bs story, because I LP as a media whore. It’s just some more crap the the media TH throw out there and hope it will stick. I was just curious if he has said this before today
Irisheyes>
I read that in 1 of the LE’s hand written notes, or maybe Dominic Casey’s email…
hmmm maybe the emails…
but I did read that RK’s girlfriend worked there..
but I wonder why JB & KC would’ve decided of ALL places to discuss where the body was, they’d do so at the jail?
its already been said that KC spent lots of hours at JB’s office while she was out before the body was found, why wouldnt they have discussed it there?
Just so everyone doesn’t get me wrong, I still DO NOT believe that Casey murdered Caylee. I DO believe that GA and CA are hiding something big. I DO believe that the defense did a heck of a job with what they had to work with and considering all the stumbling blocks that JA and JP kept throwing at them. I DO believe that OCSO did a horrible job of investigating. JMO
Blam,
Meaning, the people at he nursing home is the last people that we know of that saw caylee, other than the testimony of the anthony’s
As far as we know, she didn’t bring her home that day and that is what casey and cindy were arguing about. The neighbor that saw the two of them fighting did not see caylee
Oh yeah Irish eyes..i know where your head is with this..I was commenting on how stoooopid that whole thing was… some of the things I hear in this case defy logic…GA & his “suicide attempt”, with no real pills, folks testifying to facts that are fiction..
but yeah it was out there b4, not sure the source…
hmmm Midwest Mom…
ok that is a thought…thank you …
Bella,
exactly right.
Not sure if you know this. but my mother and I had a falling out yesterday over this trial. And I know she watches orlando fox news in fl. (she’s just outside of orlando) so I wanted to check out what she sees because I can’t believe we are watching the same trial. Just amazing to me that the media is spewing crap having anybody without credibility just for ratings and in my case got between me and my mom’s relationship.
She is not computer literate so she can’t see an opposing side such as this site.
Thanks for listening
Hey- If the Pros wanted a rebuttal on the testimony of the autopsy report, only one of their “strongest witnesses” why didn’t they bring back Dr. G? LOL- can you imagine how terrified she must have been of comming back after world renouned Dr. S. Called her autopsy report a failure??/!!! LOL! He has forever made my favorite word SHOTTY!!! She cant get afford and more ridicule, what will her fans think? and pros had the nerve to question Spitz about his liking high profile cases. ” TO ME, ALL CASES ARE HIGH PROFILE, THATS WHY I ALWAYS OPEN THE SKULL!!!!!” *CLASSIC*
Jose Baez scores much higher overall than JA, LDB, and FG. With all the trial experience they have, they’re still unpolished.
Baez was on the floor asking questions more often than any other attorney, and more of the witnesses he questioned were trying to withhold the truth – Kronk/Mellich/GA and more.
Baez did more presenting and questioning than any other attorney – JA and LDB shared their workload, and got a little help from FG.
Ok….KMILLER….Your 6:17 comment was brilliant!! It made me laugh and cheer!!
K. Miller>
Dr.Spitz had me CRACKING up! I mean for real…he hammered back at the PT about that skull being opened..
& of all the experts..man he was someone the be HIGHLY respected! talk about a guru..as they read of his credentials I was like man!
He’s been a forensic scientist since back before Israel was even a country!
i believe JP even had a moment of deference when the Dr. stepped up to the stand…
but he was seriously almost insulted that ANYONE would do an autopsy without opening the skull…
I also liked when asked if he was saying the ME changed the position of the hair,
he responded “Ive seen horror stories”, & he went on to describe instances of LE misconduct..
I think my hubby is getting jealous of my crush on JB- I told him I love a good under dog story! Just like RUDY!!! AWWWWw! LOL!!
irish eyes…
Im sorry sweetie..I meant to post last night about your mom’s response to your thoughts…
your mother is a part of TH’s target audience…
even if she had access to this site, it may still be hard for her to change her perspective…the TH’s are VERY effective at what they do…
they Prey on all the negative emotions that drove us all here away from the masses…
Ive found from so many past experiences attempting to help folks see things differently,for some folks its easiest not to..you know?
Im sorry you have to hear backlash from someone (especially a mom) when you’re only attempting to help…
but dont worry, we’re here for you here…
Id suggest avoiding discourse with ANYONE who’s watching the trial that doesnt share your perspective…honestly…
because you dont deserve the negative backlash…
who needs that..
Id stick to what you and your mom can peacefully talk about..(like the weather)…
You cant feed steak to babies..
but bless you for attempting to liberate her mentality…
Oh Omar- You always make me laugh and cheer. Im in “rare form” tonight. Very giddy and excited about today in court.
Really interesting Q&A by Judge Eaton tonite.
So jury misses July 4 Holiday if KC is found guilty of murder 1. Actually takes some pressure off of having to deliberate FAST b/c it won’t get them home for the barbeque.
Also for a Manslaughter Sentence…
http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/28419911/detail.html
Ok….I have to quit reading for awhile. I’m seeing black spots. I did not get to see the last part of rebuttal today. I had to leave when Sandra Osbourne was just getting on the stand, so I saw nothing after Strenger. I will try to watch the remainder later this evening. Right at this particular moment in time, I have to go and patch a drywall hole in my bathroom..
Lisa….yes, it’s true….many truly intelligent people are horrible spellers. However, in all of my anthropology classes and bio classes, we were graded on spelling…..because in Latin in particular, one letter can change the whole meaning of the word.
I concur that many doctors have horrid penmanship, but the ones where I live do know how to spell…and I’ve worked beside them and am friends with them. But I will agree that spelling necessarily an indication of IQ. BUT when you’re on staff at a university and are looking at texts every day, and you are writing every day, I’d think that you would know how to spell those common anatomic landmarks that you deal with on a daily basis.
I wasn’t implying that just because a person can’t spell that they’re dumb. BUT…..how many university specialists of ANY science….particularly those who teach OR research OR both do NOT look at those words EVERY day???? The word is FORAMEN. That’s an easy one….It’s not deoxyriboneucleic acid or staphylococcus epidermidis or xyphihumeralis, for crying out loud!
And on top of that…..if he had the gall to come criticize Dr. Spitz without having even read the autopsy/toxicology reports….then he’s just got a bone to pick…..
get it? Pun.
Nevermind…it’s been a long day.
K Miller>
I saw on the blog on wftv where a lot of folks said they thought JB was actually jealous of YuriM’s looks LMAO!!!
I thought perhaps that may be true in the case of JA when he attempted to fuss about JB texting in court…do you remember that?
I thought to myself, how petty of him to bring that up…but then I thought maybe he’s got envy because People mag, Geraldo etc..etc… all want a moment with this guy, new on the scene…
etc… & JA? well his looks speak for themselves
Bella- LOL!! “He’s been a forensic scientist since back before Israel was even a country!”
Reguarding your response to Irish- You are so right. I mean, I have taken col. courses in sociology, but the “REALITY CHECK” I have gotten in the past few years, WOW!! To read the words on paper is one thing, but to actually be living this “twilight zone” is completely overwhelming. The power of the media is at its peak! I am not a “religious person” as in I dont make it to church, ever, but I do believe in good and evil, and the evil I see now with the media bashing, cyber bullying, teen suicides, on and on, Its really getting scary.
Bellla
thank you so much for you thoughtful insight. With all the emotions I’m feeling, I honestly needed to hear some reasoning right now that really helped me. The strange thing is, it use to be my mom to do that.
Bless you
to Omar…its called medical terminology… & yes some folks may misspell a last name on an order..but misspelling anything of scientific nature? & Id agree especially for those in the academic arena…
not just spelling but grammar, pucntuation, the way a source is cited..
etc..
which again is why its surprising to me that we have a highly accomplished Judge on this case who has such a ridiculous use of the English language..
I laughed at whoever posted wondering how the court reporter documented his utterances…
I’ll bet Jose Baez’ opening statement/presentation was one of the best ever delivered for a murder trial.
Jurors were probably spell-bound, as I was, but if they looked at the PT table, they saw Jeff Ashton and Linda Burdick acting like the deranged morons they are; both of them grinning, and Ashton wagging his head back and forth while Baez spoke of George’s sexually abusing Casey.
NO decent person would sit there and grin about a child being molested, but Jeff Ashton would, and did.
Hey everyone, I missed one day of testimony and have been trying to play catch-up ever since. I have wanted to mention this for quite awhile…..
One of the things I noticed was that only JB addressed the Jury, everyday he said Good Morning. At first no one answered back, then as the days went by you could hear one or two answer. Now, at the end of the trial you can hear ALL OF THEM and they seem very happy to tell him Good Morning back. I think this will have an impact, they LIKE Jose, it shows in the way they respond to him. I imagine they like JP too but for different reasons, ie dessert lady and smoke breaks. I can’t imagine ANY of them appreciating JA (Jack Ass), they have to see and hear what we do, he is condescending, irritating and annoying, keeping the jury waiting constantly. He is an elitist, probably born with a silver spoon in his mouth, up against a man that came from humble beginnings, not polished but likeable. I so hope this has an influence on the jury.
2chihuahuas
irisheyescu2 – Last night I mentioned that I had to have dinner with my in-laws (including an ex-cop) and I just changed the subject when the trial came up. I knew I wasn’t going to change anyone’s mind (there were 5 of them). If my Mom was still alive she wouldn’t be talking to me either if I said I thought KC didn’t do it. My only sister and I have not agreed on anything since we were in elementary school so I know which side of the fence she’s on. So its just me and you guys here.
Yellow Dog,
I ‘m sorry you have to go through it too. It is so saddening that you can’t even rationally talk about this with your loved ones, but I am so thankful that there are people like me here.
Glad to see you survived your dinner with your in-laws. What does your spouse think about this trial? My husband doesn’t really get involved I might mention something about what happened at a certain time of the day, but he really doesn’t take an interest, which may be a good thing
2 chihuhuas good to see you!
& to Yellow Dog, Irish eyes…
Delaney as well>
I read what you said about our dinner YD, Im glad you avoided sharing..I mean its hard you know ? some people just dont SEE , they follow…& thats ok..
also I think this site may make a lot of us a little more relaxed because we spend time discussing things repectfully, kindly… no anger..intelligently…even if we disagree its intelligently…but the TH’s target audience are trained to communicate differently.. they’re trained to see this case through a narrative to attract viewers with the objective of driving revenue…bad guy good guy
murderous monsterish manipulative KC, versus innocent kind grandparents..
Sleazy, manipulative Defense attorney Baez..
the more the TH’s bash and gnaw the more folks tune in…
the TH’s show the example of how to communicate..& they do so with a total lack of respect…
& Id agree the PT does what the TH’s do on screen in the courtroomt..
Delaney made mention above of how JA, & LDB were clearly responding when JB announced the allegations of abuse shaking their head etc…
she also mentioned the contrast of how JB RESPECTFULLY always addressed the jury…
We all noticed the way JA approached the grief DOCTOR, A professor who’d worked with victims of Katrina, she said 40 years of experience, 10′s of thousands of patients, many she never charged for help….
he did so with such Disrespect & blatant animosity…
its that ugly mentality that frames the PT’s work, and the TH’s constant narrative that causes the aggressive response from their viewers…
So yeah Id say to stay in a mentally safe & postive mind state…
we all should CHOOSE our conversations wisely
Irisheyescu2…..one thing I’ve learned along the way is that NO ONE is allowed to assign value to me EXCEPT for me. Like you, I spent many, many days crying over hurtful things that were said, or disapproval that was so heartily slung my way at every opportune moment. I tried so hard to be good at everything….and the more awards I won, or the more people seemed to enjoy my company, the more my mother wanted to tear me down. It’ was like a contest to her sometimes. I feel like she may have been in search of her own validation, and perhaps felt inferior to me. She wanted me to idolize her, despite the fact that she failed me MISERABLY and let me know that she made her choice and that choice was not me. She wanted recognition for anything good I may have done, but wanted to rub in my face any shortcoming I had or mistake I made. It was unacceptable to her for me to differ with her in opinion……
And that was difficult because…..well, because my level of intelligence is …..different than hers. I’ll leave that there.
It has taken me many , nany, many years to realize that love doesn’t mean agreeing with everything someone says. Love isn’t molding someone into what you find “lovable”. Love is a freedom….an unfettered encouragement…..to become YOU….to live as YOU…..to laugh as YOU….to feel what YOU feel….and to embrace who YOU are…without changing it or altering it. Love doens’t require the tweaking and fine tuning of your object of affection. Love tweaks and fine tunes the heart of the lover so that all that is unique in the object of our love soon becomes something so desirable, so precious, that the lover would never change it. It simply says “I love you because you are uniquely and wholly YOU.”
And it begins with you loving YOU and giving yourself permission to be UNIQUELY and AUTONOMOUSLY ……YOU. Give yourself that permission, sweetheart. Your mama has a fear that by allowing you to be YOU, she will lose you. And guess what, it’s that very suffocating need of hers that is keeping you from allowing yourself to be YOU.
You are wonderful. Just accept the love here, and learn to love you. Mama has her own demons to battle. You just learn to assign value to YOU.
===========================================
Omar, (((Hugs))) Kudos!
jb
Omar ur right about Love, My wife & I , have been happily married since 1975 . there have been some challenges , but looking back on it they were kinda fun too.
;)
Omar-333,
WOW! Truth in everything you just said! After yesterday I was having a hard time to wrap my head and thoughts around what happened.
You are such a strong person, and I will take everything you said to allow myself to be who I am.
I’m going to copy and paste it in a word document so I can read it time and time again.
Thank you and Bless you
Omar>
Thank you so much for your thoughts!! They actually made me teary!
I had a dad like that in the respect of how attempting to please and fufill his expectations…which were NEVER good enough, no matter how much I accomplished, or tried…
& I have a different type of intelligence Id say as well…
Im going to cut and paste your thoughts into a word document for me to look at daily as 1 of my positive affirmations..
I REALLY appreciate reading them…
they got me so teary..having a hard time typing
Well for a juror that has a hard time believing Vass, and GA in particular, will have plenty of ammo for argument with a juror trying to ramrod this thru for the state. I can see those few that feel the State has not proven anything, becoming argumentative toward those that want to ram it through. There are a lot of holes in this case for one to refer to. Will any of them fight for Kc? IDK. But one has an obligation to all those that believe in the death penalty, to make absolutely sure beyond a reasonable doubt they have the right person.
I hope jurors go over the evidence and see if the state proved each item or section.
1. Did they prove that Caylee died? yes
2. Did they prove how? multiple choice no IMO
3. Did they prove why? not at all, they did not do much work on that. no
4. Did they prove where? absolutely not. they don’t even know.
The state introduced chloroform as a multiple choice cause of death (murder weapon) and premeditation. did they prove it was there in high levels? Not really. mediocre from air science. could have been anything.
The state introduced Chloroform computer searches as a method of premeditation. did they prove there was cholorform searches? mediocre. Did they prove computer searches as a good form of premeditation? no, absolutely not. mediocre, this is a new form of method, and pretty much a stretch in most peoples eyes.
The state introduced duct tape as a multiple choice murder weapon. Did they prove that duct tape caused Caylees death? no and beyond, the placement was manipulated. Today’s testimony gives a juror reason to believe the duct tape was used to secure the bag.
An unbiased juror does not need a video tape of the killing, but sheesh, at least give them something they can hang on to. the state has failed to prove their case. Yes they did a good job as attorney’s in the mechanicals as D said, but they did not prove their case. Jb may not have done such a great job with the mechanicals, but he gave the jury the information they need to realize that the state has not proven their case.
The decision is on their shoulders and they indeed have the information in front of them that the state did not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.
Btw, this is my first multiple choice cause of death case. I hope JB drives this point home.
You don’t get multiple choice cause of death!!!!!!! Either you know, or you don’t know!!!
They don’t even know how she died.
They don’t even know where she died.
They don’t even know when she died.
They don’t even know Why she died..
They come to you with this voodoo case and they can’t even give you the information you need to render a humane decision.
Drowning by accident is the only thing that makes sense in this case. It is the only thing that fits all the criteria. IMO
I didn’t mean to make you tear up, Bella!!
Both of you are very welcome….and I am glad that we all have each other! I take strength from many words I read here!! Hugs to all my Missionite friends!
Riley….wow…you’ve been at it a long time, and I know after being married all that time, you absolutely know that what I said about love is true! Bless you my friend, and I hope you have many, many more happy years!
NTS…..great comment!! You hit the nail right on the head. I hope and pray that the jury really THINKS about what the state was trying to sell. You can’t sell a multiple choice murder and expect to put someone to death for it!!! Hopefully there are at least a couple of the jurors who can see this.
Wow Omar-333, that was very well said. And I am with ya every word. It does take a long time to “re learn” how to be just a human being, and then even after that there are checks and balances that re-inforce the message that we are ok and we are what we are strong enough to chose to be. And these required c & b ‘s are what gets us through the rest of our lives.
Like I said before this is where I feel really sorry for KC. She did not have that chance, and I am afraid she never will. Or maybe she did and and didn’t want it for her baby. Who knows? It also makes me wonder how many more there are and how many more it will take before the real intelligent people who have at heart to fix such a broken system. I can tell you my computer has been a saving grace as my mother and I also argue all the time to ( only now she is 70 and I am 52, and when takes her teeth out it just can’t last long enough bc she gets confused and those lips get to flappin and it is way to funny). These weeks she would sit there glued to the TV with HLN and blow her breath when the commericals would come on and here I sit continue to listen to the real courtroom. It was like she just had to be told what was going on by the talking heads.
7:40pm,
MWM,
so you are saying that we dn’t know if the story of CA swimming in the pool on the night of 6//15 is true or not? happened or not? and that CA saying that when she left on 6/16 Caylee was there,… we don’t know if that is true or not.
/blam
Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury. The States cause of death is UNKNOWN.. This is not an 8th grade multiple choice question and answer period. There is no second chance when it comes to death. The State wants you to have multiple choice cause of death as though you were there and you know the answer. This is their awkward way of telling you that they just don’t know, so they are putting that burden on you and they want you to have some multiple choice theories. The State is speculating before you. They have not proven either of their choice cause of death answers to you. They have attempted to put the burden on you the jury, rather than doing their jobs and assuming the burden of proof. I submit to you that they have not proven cause of death.
A tragic accidental drowning is the only thing that makes sense. It does not take voodoo scientist that are out to make millions of dollars, or over zealous well educated animated attorney’s. It only takes simple common sense. It is simple, it is tragic and it makes sense.
How did we get to where we are today? I submit to you that Kc lied to police and they resented it and went on a relentless mission to get even. They failed to do their job. Their mission is to get to the bottom of it and not let their feelings get in the way of the truth. The truth was before them and they couldn’t see it because of their relentless pursuit of Kc as a killer. GA fed them everything they wanted to hear. He controlled their investigation from the start. Did any of them ever consider that the person pointing the finger may be involved? NO!! because he was one of them!!
Please lay out the states video tapes of the jail house visits and note how GA is treating Kc as his own beautiful sweet daughter. Then get out the Police interviews from days before that and see how GA is pointing the finger straight at his daughter. The police should have picked up on these inconsistencies and been suspicious. IMO MOO hopefully more later. lol
Hi guys
That horrible Lisa Bloom (daughter of Gloria Alred) is having diarhea of the mouth on HLN right now. I don’t enjoy her.
OFF TOPIC But, Ifeel I gotta try… Several yrs. ago A family was murdered,”shot”The parents were left in the kitchen, their 9yr. old daughter was took apx. 25 miles and threw into a creek,& found days later. there have never been any good suspects, However the cops in that county had went to prison for drug dealing, ”prior to this”. I have done some ”snooping” but still haven’t figured much out. I do know the cops in that county are crooks.If someone could put all this in a book or something maby this could be solved. I can not wright worth a crap, but i Know stuff I will not put on here. JB mission has my e-mail. i would be interested in talking to someone on the phone about this or in person,after this trial is over,If one of you are interested. sorry for being off topic. just thought i would try.
KMiller – “little JB’s running around, and eat ends of licorice!”, and publish her story, and keep defending those wrongly accused!
Riley…..I’m sure that someone would talk to you after this is over! What area of the country are you in again? (I’m sorry…I can’t keep it all straight).
2 Chihuahuas @ 8:22pm,
I noticed that too. I couldn’t hear them respond, but I noticed the way he always stood and smiled and seemed to have a sincere demeanor when they entered. I began to feel/sense that there was a rapport being built between them and him. I felt that the PT was very cold.
/blam
riley….I would love to help but I am not an author. I do have an interest in crime because my friend was killed by Bundy. I believe that there are far more serial killers in this country than most people believe. I also think many of these killers are mobile and kill in many different parts of the country, thus keeping LE from catching them. I wish that more states had sunshine laws, I think many more crimes would be solved it that were the case. (I do have to say that the sunshine law in Florida was used by LE to whip up the masses into wanting to hang KC and that is not what the law is intended to be used for). I think that many crimes could be connected and solved if only “we the people” had access to more info.
2chihuahuas
And what was that about the gas cans and “here is your f’ing gas cans” are you sure there wasn’t a dog there or something?
what the heck was that all about? Ga was very uncomfortable with that question and so was the state. You see, GA gets very uncomfortable when he is lying. His gas can story is a lie and it is another one of his ways of steering the investigation in the direction of Kc. You see? no witnesses, just him and Kc, if it happened at all. I really hope a juror picks up on this. GA called the police to document the story. Note how she wouldn’t let him near the trunk. Of course, all part of his plan. He knows how to make someone look guilty. Its what he does. And then he will go on national television and say, i can’t believe my daughter would do anything to harm my grand daughter, all while behind the scenes he is pointing the finger at her at every turn and beyond.
And again. GA is the one that called the police about the disturbed dirt in the back yard that caused the police to bring in dogs. Again, no witnesses, just him pointing the finger at his daughter behind the scenes.
And again. Ga is the one that told the police about the garbage in the back of the car. He is the one that told police about the smell of death.
And again. GA is the one that pulled police to the side and told them that his daughter was not telling them everything.
And again, Ga is the one that faked a suicide so everyone would feel sorry for him. Brad C must feel like a fool.
And again, GA was the one with Tim M and wanted Kc to mark an X on the map. Tim M has been played for a fool. He fell for it hook line and sinker.
The list of little tid bits of GA pointing the finger at Kc is huge. Way too huge.
One last thing that really makes me think and it wasn’t really brought out at trial that I know of. Chris Stutz said Kc visited him on June 17th and he knew it was this date because his mom just bought a tread mill and she was on the tread mill. He said that she was driving Tony’s Jeep that day. Where was her car? I want to know the answer to that and even if it was the 18th, I want to know the answer. Why would she be driving Tony’s jeep if nothing was wrong with her own car? Because of gas?????
Everything I say is just theory and opinion. thanks
about my 9;47 I live in VA.
NTS,
I agree completely and said so earlier. The DT put a face on the case while the PT did not. We know nothing more than we did 3 years ago, exc maybe about a bogus 84x computer search for chloroform, (that was proven wrong). Everything else is all still the same. Incredible.
I don’t feel the state proved their case, and I think they know it, which is why they put on a rebuttal, which, in and of itself, was very weak. IMHO>
/blam
I live apx 25 miles from Roanoke, VA.
riley…
I live in Oregon and one of the oddest cases that I am familiar with is the Kyron Horman missing child case. This is one weird case that is languishing for lack of evidence. If LE would reveal some more details perhaps this case could be resolved. It’s very frustrating, knowing that the boys step-mother is responsible but not knowing what happened to him. I think she gave him to someone, maybe he is still alive or maybe not but I don’t think she killed him herself. She wanted her husband dead too and tried to hire a hit man, what is wrong with people, haven’t they heard of divorce?
2chihuahuas
NTS @ 10:04 :
George used the car, too – naybe he had it on the 17th/18th.
NTS – I think you are correct. This entire scenario was orchestrated, and GA was the conductor. JMO
blam…I watch the trial on wftv and I use headphones to hear better and I can hear the jury responding to JB. In the beginning they were very hesitant but as time has gone by they are becoming more vocal and they now sound sincere in their “Good Morning”.
I think JB is using his manners, the ones his Mother taught him and the jury likes that. The fact that JA has NO MANNERS is painfully apparent!
2chihuahuas
blam,
Thanks for responding. And who really believes that anyone premeditates a murder that way? The yeah sayers are always talking about premeditation only takes one second. Well this is 3 months. Not consistent with their thought patterns. How many people have planned their murder this way? Its a rediculous theory. Its not believable and our state prosecutors need to stick with what is believable. All of us know the case so well and were surprised to see how much the state left out. They made it short and sweet. I submit that is because they know that the majority of their case is not believable, so they made it shorter in hopes it would stick. I ask, where is John Allen in all of this? you know, the man that couldn’t wait to tell Kc all about their combined experience during the intterogation. His seasoned experience and in combination with others in the room, wasn’t part of Caylee’s where abouts. It only served to tell Kc that he was experienced. I submit that he got no where with that interrogation. All the kings horses and all the kings men could not bring Kc down because she was lieing for her father. She was lieing for the father she loved and was afraid of.
John A , and Yuri M need to go back to crime investigation school. Appie was the only one in that room getting anywhere with Kc.
John Allen is such a very important person in this case. He is Yuri’s boss and he was very much involved in interviews during the investigation. I ask,,,, where is John Allen????????
Does anyone know if he was any part of the trial? I know he testified pretrial, but did he testify during trial? did I miss it? MOO
Georgie Porgie pudding and pie,
Kissed the girls and made them cry
When the boys came out to play,
Georgie Porgie ran away.
George is a manipulator and liar. He comes across as hen-pecked but in reality uses this as a way to garner sympathy, he only cares about himself. Passive-Aggressive.
He used Krystal Holloway for sex and money, then when she was outed by LE he attacks her and says she is a felon and liar. Passive-Aggressive.
When he is confronted by LE he throws KC under the bus to divert attention from his unsavory actions. With a Dad like this you never need any real enemies. Passive-Aggressive.
George tries suicide to garner sympathy and because he was AFRAID that the world would find out that he is a pedophile deviant. Passive-Aggressive.
2chihuahuas
NTS,
I went to the Hinkymeter site and read their timeline for June and it’s good but it doesn’t include cell phone calls/times. so I see that GA did use KC’s car and that it did have a smell in it or she complains about a dead squirrel on the car that GA ran over. Now, it never came out that GA used that car, but it is there on that calendar.
Now, my curiosity has gotten the better of me. You know I wrote this theory a while bk about 3 eeks ago, and based on a conversation w/ Femaleclown as to a disagreement over the time on that day, I went searching for a timeline. I would be interested in your theory of how it went down.
For a while I thought that CA didn’t know but then I realized that the 911 call was all orchestrated… / then things started to fall in place.
What is your idea?
/blam
Delaney,
Well that is the thing. I know GA had keys to the car and that is no secret, but if what Chris S says is true, how did GA get to her car at Tony’s? See? again, this is very important information that was left out for the jury. Why is it the date in question of the body being in the trunk, the car is unaccounted for? ??? Why do these important questions have to go unanswered? How can a jury convict when there are so many things left unanswered?
Watch Gretta now
It might be some info from KC ”friends”
Riley,
let me know how it is, I will watch it at 1AM. Is she fair, bec I think she has sort of turned a bit towards the crazies……… let me know your opinion.
/blam
Blam,
I have looked at several timelines from several different sites and they are all inconsistent with each other. The main reason being is that the owners of these sites like Val, are extremely biased and selectively leave things out that do not fit their theory. It would take weeks to create an unbiased calander time line.
My theory is that sometime that morning, Caylee drowned. GA and KC devised a plan to cover up the accident because they would both have to face Cindy and the Law.
Ga is the one that disposed of the body. To me there is no way Kc could have done it. He told her to move out and go about normal as nothing happened and later he would give her money to go out west and claim she was abducted. He knew where the laundry bag was, he knew where the garbage bags were and he knew where the duct tape was. He did not know what to dress her with, so he just put the clothes in the bag with her. He forgot the shoes and socks. He did it in a hasty fashion and he put her in the woods to decompose so after skeletonization he could dump her in a lake and she would sink. Someone else found the body and moved it and that is why he tells Kc in the jail house video that he wants that little girl back.
Their plan fell apart when GA lost the body. That is why he turned on her. Kc called him and called him and he never answered. She should have just gone to police and told the truth, but she was afraid. Afraid of him and rightfully so. Does anyone really believe GA bought a gun to scare Kc’s friends? No!! he bought a gun to intimidate her….. That is my opinion…….
===================================
Good theory Nts,
About that gun? I wondered if GA was planning on killing KC and then himself. KC was in no way depressed. There’s a big difference between GA and KC. Remember GA saying KC was the bravest woman he knew? jmo
jb
old crap never mind sorry……….
NTS,
I agree w/ everthing you have said and it is what I wrote in Part I of the theory. I included parts of yours iin there. When I did it in word, there were colors for the different people who input, but the colors of course did not come over on the blog site.
It all fits. I was in a disagreement w/ Femaleclown bec she felt it was an accident later in the day/ that KC came bk to the house later after GA went to work and that there was an accident in the pool while she was on the computer. I told her I didn’t see it that way, and after several back and forths, we just decided to agree to disagree.
Your version above is so parallel to mine. I didn’t have the part about going out west and I will send you monney part, but that sure fits, and discoing and all that just didn’t fit in w/ the story. So, KC got screwed up pthere.
Now, do ou hae a theory on who picked up the body, bec this body has had to go through several hands to end up at Suburban. That I know was a plant to frame KC. So, you and I are in agreement that it never was in her car, and all that human decomp stuff was bec GA pointed the cops to that smell.
Let me know what’s your theory re the body disposal… curious?
I spent many nights here reading trying to figure out how GA to RK? Except that they both are from Ohio/ …… but curious as to wha tyou think.
/blam
I have always heard that something good can come out of something bad…. All you sweet caring people that have been united together, Maybe that is God’s light shining thru the dark clouds of this trial.
I know it HAS to be a very hard job being a lawyer for either side. I feel they are all very smart in their job, or they wouldnt be where they are. Takes special talents to do certain jobs. I want to have respect for both positions. The Pros was trying to do their job with getting a conviction, and the DT was trying to defend their client. This is serious stuff. They both did some underhanded stuff, and thats just part of the job (IMO). Correct me if I am wrong, but doesnt LE have to get all their “investigating done” then goes to the DA? So to me thats where the problem started. Then the States Assist. Attnys “manipulated” the evidence. I do not feel in my heart of hearts that they have proven BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. I have kept my Court notes. So when they give their closing statements, I will make my final opinion. Pray for all of those involved …
Arkansasmimi,
Geraldo Rivera said last week on his show that this should never have been a death penalty case and that the PT overreached w/the indictment.
He put it simply this was bec the DA wnated to show that in the upcoming election he was stronger on law and order than his republican opponent. That made sense to me then, and it still does……….. that explains the pressure here, bec they did not prove their case, and it is still at the same place it was at 3 ears ago.
/blam
Ok Im here with you all …so I agree with the theory..I have my own variations, but wonder about the cadaver dogs alerting in the yard?
Blam 1119
I totally agree with your comment.
& I also dont think it was an accident..
Bella@6:54 p.m. Great assessment of JB’s strengths and weaknesses. My sentiments exactly. I also think JA’s antics and constant interruptions were designed to throw JB off. He got stuck with an opening statement because IMO, he was lied to. I also suspect that at some point either during the trial or when he reviewed her letters he questioned her about her lies. Don ‘t know if the competency hearing arose un part because of that or because of the Ring motion. Do know if he found out she lied, he could not knowingly put her on the stand even if he wanted to. I like JB. He knows about hard times and with this trial, he now knows what it’s like to be castrated by the innuendos, the media and the public. That could be any of us or one of our loved ones. Could happen to one of them too. No one knows.
Joyce,
pls elaborate on he part that “he found out she lied……. pls.
/blam
Blam,
I don’t think GA and RK need to have met. RK was watching Nancy Grace religously. That is why he kept saying that she said she was close. He was involved in a way that would make him money. So, he went out there and looked and he found her. He knew police would suspect him, so he hid her. He devised a plan like he did before with the ilegal weapons. He would call police and point to a bag that had no body, then months later he would call back and point to the real body. First thing he did was started blabing about the reward. Now if they suspected him, he could say, “hey!! I called this in before, its not my fault if your people are blind” Pointing suspicion away from him from the start. It worked. He was never investigated. The police felt like fools for missing it. The public was outraged. They had to save face, so they fired their officer.
This is a fairly small woods behind that house. It wouldn’t take a rocket scientist to find her. Police couldn’t find her because RK hid her. No one in their right mind believes that police didn’t search this tiny woods behind the house. The first four weeks of the investigation, that woods was dry. That woods is barley the size of 5 to 6 backyards put together. it is small. RK could have easily found that body back there early in the case.
On another note. RK was the meter reader, GA was home during meter reader time. They could have met July 11th or Aug 11th and the media seems reluctant to release all video of the house that day aug 11th. He must have read the meter right there in front of all of them. MOO
In the 1980s, GA ran unsuccessfully in the Democratic primary for Trumbull Clerk of Courts.
lol, so he’s a politician, that explains everything. haha
You know, the state still can offer a plea at the last moment. Its not too late
Hey guys! did anyone see this?
Closing Arguments
Dear Judge Eaton: I understand that the jury is instructed to not consider any testimony or statements by counsel as evidence. I assume that closing statements can only summarize the evidence actually presented at trial. If that is indeed the case, and considering that no evidence was ever presented by the defense to support the strong assertions made in opening, what is done to insure that similar assertions are not made in closing? — Sheryl
The defense does not have to prove the statements made in opening statement. They only have to raise a reasonable doubt. They will probably argue they had no duty to present any evidence, but they did present some for the jury to consider and, by the way, the state did not prove their case by circumstantial evidence. — Judge O.H. Eaton. Circuit Court Appellate Opinions Seminole County
Read more: http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended coverage/28419911/detail.html#ixzz1QuLlRhC5
Makes me feel a little better about this
ruzzerious!
Great news! I truly respect this Judge Eaton. I wish Casey would have had someone like him presiding instead of the flop she was dealt. Horrible display of court room antics! I don’t know how Jeffy Ashton was allowed to behave the way he did. jmo
I think many of the masses are missing what the defense provided that is in evidence.
GA pointing the finger time and time again, is in evidence.
The ladder being left up, is in evidence.
Caylee standing by the door is in evidence.
Kc lieing to police, is in evidence.
Kc’s phone records are in evidence.
Kc’s actions are in evidence.
The defense can still paint the picture for the jury even without saying it.
Yea I know JB — I could just feel the heat come off the TV when JB argued with JP that it was not fair he got called down for the same thing PT did this afternoon.
I do beleive the difference between JB and JA is simple, JB gives out the information in a form that makes people (the jury mainly) thinks for themselves. JA acts like he wants to shove it down thier thorats, which means a lack of confidence is perfectly evident. If KC is smart she won’t lose JB as her atty.
To Ruzzerious> I totally agree with your assesment of JA..I think thats why its hard for any intelligent viewer to watch or listen to him…there are moments where I expect him to seriously turn to the jury and start testifying on behalf of the witness himself…
Wow…Lots of comments I have to catch up on!
-I think ur right ruzz..
Funny thing..when JB is doing his cross examination, its understandable and you want to know lmore. As compared to JA or LDB, it doesn’t tell a story. I think JB is an outstanding attorney. I realize now that he wasn’t as seasoned as JA who knows the tricks and uses case laws like it’s the alphabet. You know he’s used them 100 times before, every time he objects.
but on the other hand, JB certainly got some information to the jury, even when JA objected.
That was kind of slick…Anyway, I have the utmost respect for Jose Baez..very hard working!
He’s had a tough 3 years. There’s not many of us who could have remained confident when so many brutally attacked him thru the press. I was horrified by this…really. I wish him the best.
BTW..
New Article is up.
http://thejbmission.wordpress.com/2011/07/02/cheney-mason-requests-an-acquittal/
Well..off to read the comments..
goodnight
I listened. The DT helped the State prove their case. This girl is guilty. Her Mom tried to remove pre-meditation. She failed. I saw a chart last night and according to my beliefs, Casey would be sentenced to 19 years. I think this woud be a win.
=================================================
So what are you saying kardan? Guilty of Manslaughter only?
jb
Pertaining to the PC searches. Has anyone stopped to think that maybe George A did them? Due to this investigation is the worst i’ve seen in modern day history, maybe , just maybe they should pull his records and investigate is lame story about the gascans, chasing KC in Cindy’s car , etc? By the PT just now pulling Cindy Anthony’s records is beyond embarrassment and LE never even checked into this prior also is laughable. I remember yrs ago Cindy claiming she did those searches so, it wasnt news to me, and should’ve have been to them. What else didnt they check…..Especially pertaining to George.
Why LE took George’s word about seeing CAsey leave with Caylee is beyond me as his obvious call to Casey’s cell that morning only tells me that he was calling her to get her home. JMOO.
The lack of investigating George should be a crime in itself.
Why didnt the firing of the other Tony come in? Another OCSD? So much could’ve been used , but wasnt. IMOO
Good morning. I was around yesterday but wasn’t feeling well so just read. For any Canadian members – Happy Canada Day – (belated).
I was watching the crowd outside the courtroom just now. I had pretty much painted them all with the same brush and I didn’t have any faith in the jury. I have hope now. A lady who was there with her two kids told a reporter that the defence showed reasonable doubt. She was actually fair. That was a show stopper. There is a God.
Muted HLN – someone’s reading George’s suicide note. I can’t express what it sounded like in words. Omar could have done a good job at that. I’ll just say gag, gag and gag me.
I felt badly yesterday for making fun of George’s suicide note. It could have been a call for help. I know he didn’t intend to die that day. The guy was put in a regular bed. People who are a danger to themselves don’t go to a regular bed. The hosp. staff didn’t view him as suicidal. If they had of he’d have been in the psych ward.
Hello all missionites,
It’s to bad the jury didn’t hear CM at the end of yesterday. We all new JP would deny. I’m listening to Fox news in the background and they’re going over the trial, they are SOMEWHAT being fair. Looking forward to JB’s closing tomorrow and seeing everyone here.
Hope everyone will have a moment for themselves to enjoy this holiday weekend. I have alot to do today going over to friends home, having a BBQ party. It’s great to be in the South where ice tea is sweet and the accents are sweeter; summer starts in April; front porches are wide and words are long; macaroni and cheese is a vegetable; pecan pie is a staple; y’all is the only proper pronoun; chicken is fried and bisquits come with gravy; everything is darling and someone is always getting their heart blessed. Have a good day y’all!
Got off track there.
Irisheyes, what you posted was beautiful. You have a great day too.
Just wanted to leave a link. If you don’t believe in psychics this isn’t for you.
http://www.briansprediction.com/gale/Caylee%20Anthony.htm