COMES NOW the Defendant, Casey Marie Anthony, by and through her undersigned attorney, and, pursuant to Florida Judicial Administration Rules 2.330(h), moves this Court for Reconsideration of the Court’s Order Granting State’s Motion for Sanctions/Motion to Compel, and Requests this Court to Vacate Findings of Contempt, and shows…
read here
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/26455761/detail.html
In compliance with this Court’s order, counsel for the Defendant (Baez) and his office labored to provide all of the information requested. The documentation was approximately three hundred pages. Said defense wanted to fax the said documentation, but due to the fact that it was approximately three hundred pages in length, the Clerk’s office declined. As a result, Mr. William Slabaugh, Esq. of the Baez Law Firm drove from Kissimmee to Orlando in an effort to file the documentation before the deadline. He was thwarted by the Interstate 4 traffic, arriving at the Orange County Courthouse at two minutes after 5:00 p.m. on Tuesday evening the 14th of December of 2010. Mr Slabaugh was doing his best to substantially comply with the deadline, despite its volume. Please see Affidavit of William Slabaugh attached hereto as Exihibit “F”.
The traffic was heavy your Honor. See Section 6
Incidentally, Mr. Mason did hand deliver the entire package to both the State Attorney’s Office and the Clerk of Court the next morning December 15th. Most importantly, this good faith performance included all of the documentation that was not due for another 8 days, December 23, 2010.
Cheney Mason, author of this motion, further asserted that the defense did comply to the clarification of the 5 provisions set by Judge Perry in his courtroom.
See
http://thejbmission.wordpress.com/2010/12/17/defense-expert-probable-testimony/
I agree with Mr. Mason that all five provisions were met. They, Casey Anthony’s defense team were simply being mindful of their obligation to protect privileged matters (work product).
As part of Section 9, Mason submitted supplemental information for each of the expert witnesses.
As listed in item “d” of Section 9, Dr. Werner Spitz who did a second autopsy of the victim, cut open the cranium which Dr Garavaglia did not. He discovered dirt and mud on the left side of the skull which doesn’t support Dr. G’s finding that the remains were in an upright position. Cheney Mason added “Dr. Spitz is expected to bring significant rebuttal testimony in the matter of autopsy findings.”
Mason points to Order of December 3, 2010, Exhibit “B”, that “work product” privileged documents would not be included in any required discovery. He fears that the Orders would be outside the essential requirements of the law.
Interesting in Section 11 the motion addresses the dreaded “tax payer’s expense” that is all too often used in this case. The State experts have been “retained at tax payer expense”. Mason says this isn’t accurate. As he explains this that some of the experts have or will submit requests for reimbursement of expenses in accordance with the schedule of the JAC. He points out that the State bears no such burden or restrictions when hiring their experts.
mmmmmmmmmmMOTIONmmmmmmmmmm
NOW HERE COMES THE STATE. So what does Jeff Ashton of the State Attorney’s Office want? They filed a motion to compel additional discovery pertaining to the defense expert witnesses.
Starting with “#1 – Any contracts or agreements in any form, setting for the scope of work or expected compensation”
I suspect this will allow the State to cite any other cases this expert has testified. Maybe the intention is to taint the juror’s belief in anything this expert will say.
As for the other 5 requests, some are just plainly outrageous and a few of them could easily be ascertained by asking through deposition, looking on the internet and other sources as it was ruled in an earlier motion.
Thanks to the Gods of Justice and the hand of Judge Perry, 1, 2, 3 and 4 were DENIED without prejudice.
Number 5 and 6 pertaining to the actual evidence examined by the experts were granted.
5) Any notes taken by the expert or for the expert during, or referencing their examination of any evidence; and
6) Any photographs or video taken by the expert in connection with this case.
As a constant student of life, I’ve never realized how difficult it can be for a defendant in the State of Florida. I do hope Judge Perry has a change of heart and grants this one minor motion for the defense. He’s made his point. Yes he’s set deadlines and Yes, he can make a call of Contempt of Court but in this case and in the name of Justice, he was wrong in my un-lawyered opinion. Perhaps the Gods of Justice will lead Judge Perry’s hand again and he’ll grant this motion.
News source:
http://www.wftv.com/news/26455776/detail.html
.
Just asking, does anyone know when’s the next hearing?
TIA
NTS said:
I have read the whole motion and I agree that there is confusion on the Judges part. He seems to be ruling against his own rulings or at least the time line of rules and motions are out of order. They tried to fax the compliance and the clerk turned it down because it was too big. They tried to drive it there, but too much traffick. If the defense attempted to comply and have it documented that they made more than one attempt, then I agree that the whole thing should be looked at again in detail. If the Judge is getting dates and compliance deadlines mixed up, then he should take another look. IMO
=============
NTS,
Maybe you’re right. It does seem like JP is getting confused. I thought he was clear about sharing and what’s considered “work product” and what’s not.
I’m hoping JP grants Cheney’s motion. Maybe he will since it’s not coming from Baez. There’s something about Baez that the Orlando State Attorney’s office doesn’t like. I haven’t figured it out yet. Is it his inexperience or is it because he hasn’t made enough friends in higher places??
I think it is his snarky looks and his eye rolling while in hearings and on camera. Instead of the public paying attention to the substance of what he says, they pay attention to the snarky looks. It is embarassing for both sides. He needs to be kind and respectful. IMO
I wanted to talk about the dirt that was found at the top left of the skull indicating that she was on her left side for some period of time. He discovered this by opening up the skull. Dr G did not open the skull. When CM deposed DR G, he came out and talked to the press and said that she gave them a gem. I wonder if this is it, that DR G agreed with them. What do ya think?
What would be interesting is if the soil found at the top left skull, was different than the soil at the bottom or the crime scene soil. Is that work product info?
I am very curious as to how much DR G depended on DR Hall’s report. I saw on another blog that the autopsy report points out the sandy soil and the tooth through some type of light anaylisis. Maybe the skull did roll out.
Yes NTS,
That’s a good possibility. I think Dr. G must have gave CM something. I’m feeling more confident that Caylee’s body was moved at some point. I just can’t get pass all of the searchers who missed her and if this indicates her remains were moved, then this certainly raises reasonable doubt.
There’s so much presumption in the autopsy report. No cause of death? Can’t say for sure there was a murder? This new information about the skull. It’s just not adding up to a conviction to me.
I hope that this one motion get’s granted and Ashton & Baez grow up. It’s taking too much valuable time to sort out these motions.
Just let the discovery speak for itself..that’s all that I want.
I have been saying that all along as well about the original order JB. I posted a big thing about that. I do not understand why the defense waited so long to address it?
notthatsmart says:
What would be interesting is if the soil found at the top left skull, was different than the soil at the bottom or the crime scene soil. Is that work product info?
Great thinking nts! That would be interesting ..for sure!!!
Funny how different news channels talk about this motion..WFTV talks about the sanction aspect..Channel 13 talks about the remains. Of course I think they could have picked a different picture.
http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2011/january/193179/Casey-Anthony-defense-experts-offer-evidence-Caylee%E2%80%99s-remains-were-moved
JB Good write! ..Funny how the big news is sanctions on wftv..and remains moved on channel 13..
Maybe you could add that in?
Of course that could also be a future article LOL..What do you think about nts comment
about different soil? It brings to mind if the defense is leaning toward the body being
moved, I don’t think they would mean from one spot in the general vicinity to another
spot. But if Dr. G did not open the skull..then I guess the state would not have tested?
I am assuming I am reading that right? That she did not open the skull? So did the
defense test the soils.. LOL I am tired..but sometimes this information over loads my mind!
lol, yes Snoop,
I should add that in..Isn’t it odd how some news sources choose incidental news about Jose Baez and others are actually reporting the evidence. It’s becoming clear as to which news station is biased.
You know KB will have a hizzy fit if Jose Baez gets out of a fine. Seriously, I thought the information JB provided to JA was fine. It did meet all five criteria’s. Picky-picky. IMO, they didn’t even deserve that.
And I remember how obscure the unidentified DNA finding was reported. I think the Orlando Sentinel was the only source that mentioned it and I thought it was bombshell news…silly me.
Zuben, I hope you don’t mind but I moved your post here.
Z said:
Baez is objecting to the sanctions and asking that the order be vacated. It is quite a good read. http://www.wftv.com/pdf/26455761/detail.html
He adds that Dr. G should have opened the skull and didn’t, but Dr. Spitz did. He discovered a pocket of mud collected on the top left of the cranium and in order for that to happen she would have to be laying in that position, not upright for some time. That makes perfect sense to me. Also, they found a tooth stuck to the top inside of the skull so she clearly was not sitting upright in that position as Melich and the others are claiming.
He shares that the state is still waiting on some late breaking bomshell evidence to be found in the vacumn debree so they can’t address that at this time until the state hands their findings over. Baez withdrew his prior statement, regarding Eikelenboom’s potential “to rebut any false claim raised…” Probably to pacify the state. If it isn’t accurate I would call it false, though. He’s nicer than I am, I guess. Maybe he should adopt Cindy’s word, “mistruth”.
He corrects the honorable judge’s mistatement that their experts have been retained at taxpayer’s expense. They will only ask for some expenses to be reimbursed. He also corrects the statement that the defense experts have been deposed by them. They have not, only the state witness have. He has repeatedly suggested that the state depose his experts but they haven’t. He points out that he has crossed the line, and shared work product because of the intervening of the court and basically, they shouldn’t be punishing him. He then points out that the state hasn’t lived up to the standards the court has ordered. I’m not an attorney but it looks pretty reasonable to me.
Thanks Zuben for your break down.
Cheney did a little schooling too. I think JP got a B+ for lack of consistency. lol
Thanks for moving my post and for the great article, JB. There is a hearing on Friday. I hope Perry doesn’t have an ego problem that might keep him from realizing his inconsistancy. I haven’t observed him long enough to judge but I do think Ashton knows what buttons to push, making the defense’s lack of compliance, according to him, a lack of respect for the judge and his orders. He attempted to make it a personal issue of Baez and Mason disrespecting the judge and I think Perry took the bait. But, I could be wrong and this is just a preliminary possible judgment on my part. I’m still open to change there.
The tooth glued with dirt to the top of the skull has always bothered me and it blows me away that professionals like examined the skull would ignore this obvious fact. Did Dr. G have an agenda too? Will Aston and Burdick be scrambling to save their reputation or Dr. G’s ratings? NTS, if I have to vote which has displayed more snarky dramatical facial expressions, I’d either have to call a tie or give the prize to Ashton.
I pulled up the autopsy pages for another read. Another question that comes to me each time I read it is…how can the tape old the mandible in place at all. When the tissue decomposes, the hair has nothing to keep it on the skull. It seems impossible to me that the glue from the ducktape could make it through decomposition to hold the mandible in place when the hair has nothing to hold on to. Now, picture the skull being on its side during decomposition, then ending up in an upright position. It had to either roll that way or be placed, purposefully in that position. If it rolled how would the hair even stay around the skull at all, let alone keep the mandible their. It sounds more reasonable that it was set up, laid out in the way they wanted it found.
Now, keep in mind that the area they found it was on a slope. How likely is it that mud will get stirred up and deposited inside the skull when there is such an abundance of plant growth covering the wooded floor. If nothing else, there would be previous years rotting leaves creating the floor. She was inside three bags. The only dirt I can imagine getting inside them, for the most part, is that coming from the direction of the road because of the slope of the land. But keep in mind that one of the black bags was tied shut so not much dirt could enter until animals tore it open. As the water level rose during Faye, dirt from down slope could possible reach there but it still doesn’t make sense that much dirt would be stirred up except on a path where people walked, keeping it disturbed, or where animals dig and disturb the floor. Also remember that witnesses say that the water they saw there was transparent. They could see through it and see things sticking out above the water line. This is not the description of a swamp where the water is dark and murky, filled with mud or sediment. This would make sense, if the woods floor was covered with plant growth and layers of fallen leaves.
I’ve observed, to my dismay, flooding on my property from torrential rains, Faye bringing one of them. Sand is the first thing to move and be found elsewhere. I would assume the shoulders there are the same as I am familiar with, a mixture of gravel, sand and clay. The last to are at least half again denser or heavier than water. Clay is much heavier than sand when it is wet so the sand is the first to be washed downhill. Humus is much lighter than either and would possible gain access to the skull, if the bags were open enough to let it in during the time Faye stirred things up.They describe the dirt found in the shroud as sandy dirt, not black mud that one would expect coming from a forest floor.
Another thing that jumped out at me is that it says Dr. G did the exam but I recall her saying she only checked the work of the person that actually did the exam. Did I dream that? No, I didn’t. Right after this paragraph it says who actually did the exam and that she sent Schultz to the crime scene. Page 6444 says they took saline washings from the cranial cavity. Fortunately they didn’t destroy the mud completely or else the defense expert would have never had that evidence.
There are fine roots attached to the canvas bag. This process would begin immediately when placed there, regardless of the stage of decomp because the vinyl lining and the black bags would keep the decomp from that surface. I don’t have a clear picture of where the blanket was but if under the bundle, it would invited root growth also. That only leaves what was growing through the bag where decomposition would be taking place, to address as far as time goes. Still the process of decomp would be complete in just a couple of weeks and if she were placed their in August or later, I don’t think their findings would prove otherwise. Again, the genus and species is key here, as for size of root and the time required. It is easy to gain that info with DNA. They can even pinpoint if it came from there or elsewhere, I believe.
Rereading this doc, I am again reminded that the grey material with purple ribbon sounds more like a diaper than a pull up and doesn’t seem to match anything that Casey or Cindy bought for Caylee. There was a green and yellow pattern printed on it.
Pg 6447 says the skull contains sandy dirt with the tooth stuck to the inside of the calvarium with dirt. The word means skull cap and makes up the upper part of the cranium. It consists of
* frontal bone
* parietal bones (two)
* temporal bones (two)
* occipital bone
There are recesses or depressions to hold various parts of the brain, vessels, etc. I can see why it may be standard procedure to open the skull. Their may be signs of cause of death inside there. Remember, too, that she showed signs of premature fusing of the skull.
There is minimal amounts of adipocere on some of the bones with sandy, silty soil found on them, except for the skull. Now, why would the skull be excluded unless it was in the bag and dirt couldn’t reach it? We know dirt did reach it and was holding a tooth inside the skull so was it exposed and the exterior washed clean by rains? Or maybe she laid on her side, the water only got so deep, bringing some sandy silt with it, settling and drying there, as the water drained back away. This would explain no dirt on the exterior. But why are other bones covered with dirt? Even the shorts are described as having only a small amount of dirt and that is the most likely place dirt would stick, to fabric. The canvas bag and blanket don’t look like there is much on it either.
Keeping in mind that the defense expert found that the body had been laying on the left side, collecting dirt, notice page 6459 notes that there was postmortem (after death) damage to the distal end (furthest point away from where it attaches) of the metaphysis of the left tibia (lower leg), the margin being ragged, with the margin and the cancellous bone being a lighter color. This is the center of the bone, the spongy area where the marrow is. It is in the next bulleted section that he mentions animal damage so I would have to assume that he isn’t calling this animal damage. So, what would cause this ragged edge and lighter color. The first thing that comes to mind with the lighter color is bleaching from Sunshine, which shouldn’t be possible inside a bag or in a deeply wooded and shaded area.
Zub: thanks for the informative post. I wish to engage with you in an spirited debate about Caylee being inside the bags. Hopefully you can correct me and I can move on. Many have debated this with me, but usually end up calling me names. lol
I have been looking for documentation that says Caylee was actually inside the bags. Here is what I have seen and hopefully you can add to it.
1: Yuri: The bones appeared to have fallen out of the bag. “indicates to me that they were not inside the bag”
2: Dr S: Small bones were found within the bags. ” not sure what this means, but I am picturing a cluster of bags sitting on a table in a shroud and small bones found within this cluster. I am not sure how that says the bones were actually inside any of the bags. ”
3: There is a picture on myfoxorlando of the laundry bag and one of the black bags sitting in position at the crime scene. They are seperate and leaf litter is on top of the bag, so I do not know how they could have pulled the body out unless they replaced the leaf litter.
http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/021809remainsfoundOCSOpictures_set4/1/lg/196281.htm
4: Everything was put in a shroud and transported and then and only then did the Dr’s report on their findings. There is no report from the ME office in the field. The ME office crime scene investigator Steve H, never filled out a report, nor did Dr G ever refer to his report.
5: If there were small bones found inside the bags, how does that mean that the entire body was in any of these bags at any given time?
I hope you can point something out to me that can make me accept that Caylee was ever in any bags. thanks
Another interesting point is the clustering of the vertebra indicating that it was moved to an different area before disarticulation. That seems to trump any finding that the mud in the skull could indicate that the body was moved. How can mud get inside the top of the skull before disarticulation?
Hi JBM, I left a couple comments last night, but they never came through… wondered if there was a problem?
There are several reports about the details of the crime scene, as they found it. Jenny Welsh’s report begins on page 3413, following her evidence list. She states that there are supplemental reports by Mears, Rodriguez and Cardiello. Melich also wrote a description. Welsh was on scene at 11:25 am. Notice she says the observations were made after conferring with Edwards and Melich.
Welsh states that the black plastic bag appeared to be open in some way and the canvas bag was on top of it, on the NW corner.” Several bones were observed to be to the South of the approximate center of the bag, North of the front of the skull.” She doesn’t say if the bones were inside the “apparent” opened area of the bag or simply lying on top. I still don’t understand if the inner or outer black bag was tied closed.
After they moved the log and cut away some vegetation, she states that yellow handles that were tied on the top of the black bag, “as it was positioned on scene. The tied yellow handles faced upward”. Now here is where it gets confusing. If the bag were standing upright appearing to be coming out of the canvas bag, which was only on the corner of the black bag, how could bones be in the center? If an animal tore into the side of the bag I dout the handles would be facing upward, they would face outward with the side facing up, unless it chewed into the bottom of the bag, took what it wanted and left the bag upright, not likely. Also, the canvas bag had the opening facing up. It sounds like the position began upright, animals pulled the black bag outward part way then opened it somewhere below the top but managed to leave the top facing up. I just can’t picture this being reasonable. She then describes bones to the west of the bag that appear to have fallen out of the bag.
The skull wasn’t removed until a few hours later and it is then they noticed roots under it. The shorts were laying on the blanket, she first thought was a white towel. I remember the blanket being in a different location in Melich’s report, beginning on pg 3376. On pg 3377 he first says there was a pink and white stripped item of clothig next to the skull and then he says inside the bag was found the winnie pooh blanket, shorts with pink and white verticle stripes that he just said was next to the skull, and Welsh said were outside the bag a distance from the skull and bag. So we see here a lot of conflicting details. Who shall we believe? He goes on to say he could see additional bones inside the opening of the bag. There is mention of lots of roots growing in and through these items, being broken as they attempted to pick things up. Some of the confusion is cleared up where Welsh, much better at detailing, says that as they began to lift the shorts and blanket, it was discovered that it was under the black garbage bag, at the East side, or the side closest to the pathway. Now, it sounds like the blanket and possibly shorts were placed in the canvas first, then the garbage bag containing Caylee. That would explain why the shorts and blanket weren’t nearly as rotted as we’d expect if they were in direct contact with her. They then laid out a tarp and picket up the whole bag mass, so what they saw at the medical examiners office was these items lifted and wrapped in the tarp.
Mear’s report begins on page 3464. Ms Mears states that Edwards told her Kronk had punctured the bag and the skull came out. She also mentions a suspected towel that turned out to be a small blanket. So, is this different than the winnie blanket? I woudn’t describe that as white and can see the pattern in the pic so I think it is a different one, and not the pink blanket Jordan mentions.
Rodriguez’ report begins on page 3479. She gives measurements from the road and light pole, but not much else. The canvas bag began only 18′ from the edge of the road. Cardielo’s report doesn’t offer much either. She was sent to the Anthony home. Mears oked all these reports as the acting supervisor.
After rereading all this, it appears that some of the bones were in the bag, some were scattered. The ileum was partially buried under a palmetto. I would need to see it to decide if an animal tried to bury it or if Faye did the work. I hope the defense experts can make this judgment with only photos to work with. That seems rather unreasonable to me.
The photo you linked to has me stumped. I’m reasonably sure it isn’t the canvas bag. It is too white and what looks to be a round metal band can’t be the ring that holds the edge of the laundry bag stiff. It wasn’t exposed at all and they determined it was a metal ring through xray. So that can’t be the canvas bag. I have no idea what it is though.The black bag looks similar to the ones found with Caylee but the white object doesn’t look like the canvas bag. What ever the metal strip is, it has a perforated or rounded dent in it. Reaching out to about 2:00 from the yellow handles looks to be a print of some sort, not a leaf. If you hold Ctrl while hitting the + on the number pad you can enlarge the pic. Ctrl – reduces the size.
Thank you Zub. I am not sure what that pic is either. It sure looks like it is in an reverse vegetation location. Many folks believe it is the Laundry bag. I do not think so after you pointed out the metal band. If you look at the next pic, you can see it is located close to the road. Also, I would like to say that those look like yellow handles on that black bag. I was not aware of other garbage bags with yellow handles being found.
So, in the end, after the confusion, are you convinced that Caylee was ever in any of these bags?
All we have to go on is what LE said and according to that, it appears she was at least, partially in the bags. Now, whether any part of her completed decomp in there, I don’t know. Here spine and most ribs were elsewhere. Her legs were elsewhere. There wasn’t any complete sections of her body still in or at the bag. There was one whole arm, humerus, ulna and radius but the left humerus was in area B. Perhaps it was removed from the bag when decomp was further along but the lower body was carried off so it seems like the whole arm would have moved together also. It is lighter than the lower extremities. Also, it seems like the bones that completed the process in the bag would be the ones with the adipocere but that doesn’t seem to be the case so that one has me asking questions too. I think we will have to depend on the defense expert to give us a clearer picture of what was actually found, if they gave them enough to determine that, since they weren’t allowed on scene.
Pardon —— but .. Zuben, you REALLY need to be part of the defense for your inciteful analysis …………. truly …
I really wonder who that is for the defense. To really look at where each bone was found and what condition it was in to try to come up with an scenario. The ME Crime scene investigator Steve H decided to not make an report, although he was happy to report to the press about the Whale seaworld inccident. Does the crime scene investigator Steve H, really agree with DR G? How can she possibly make an report without referring to him?
Will Dr Lee be the crime scene investigator for the defense and work in the background? I never really thought the defense would put him on the stand, but they can still use his expertise.
This new inforamation about the dirt or muck being found in the upper cranium left side, could just be a tiny piece of what they found. RK said he tapped on the skull. I wonder what all fell to the bottom.
Hazaka, thank you for your generosity but I don’t have near the “qualifications” they would need. I do hope that the money problem doesn’t keep them from having everything and everyone they need though. It would be a travesty for the state to get a conviction due to lack of resources on the defense side.
NTS, I’d like to know where that report is also, good point. Perhaps it didn’t agree with what they wanted it to say? Perhaps the defense should petition the court to compel it? I’m still waiting for the report from the initial responder on July 15. I think Mason made it pretty clear they don’t see any need for Henry Lee to testify. He did his duty pointing out missed hairs and the guy in the garage will now testify to that find. So they must not see any more good he can do, since he wasn’t allowed on Suburban drive. I’m sure he has looked at photos though, and shared anything he noticed there so they will still benefit from his past involvement, I think.
Just adding my meager 2 cents here because I really get flustered when I try to put together the where, why and how of the remains. I’ve never read a case where the location of the remains are in question. This is a big deal especially when so many searchers where in such close proximity. That is a real problem.
When I think about the numerous true crime books I’ve read and just a few TruTV crime shows, I notice the searchers come prepared. I’m not referring to the general public Do-Gooders, I’m talking about reputable search organizations such as TES.
Here we have TES on the very acre of the remains, they bring a 4 wheeler but decided not to use it in fear of upsetting evidence. IMO, if you’re going in a swamp like most of FL, you don’t really need a 4-wheeler. What you do need are some knee-hi boots and a big stick.
You need cadaver dogs who are trained to search underwater. (yes, they exist) You need a water pump. Yes, they use them to drain ponds and small lakes.
If the water is too high, you need to come back when the water recedes. (like late Sept, early Oct)
There was a reason LE spoke with Kiomarie. There is a reason TM referred to this area as a “hot spot”. That’s all I have to offer here.
Something just isn’t right…lol, Well, lots of things aren’t right.
I’ll see your 2 and raise 2 Yes, JB, something just isn’t right.
JBM… you are so right about so many things not being right. And you are so right about the search teams coming prepared. Why would TES not oufit themselves with boots, etc. Dogs would have probably found Caylee’s remains early on. If LE had brought dogs in when Kronk said he saw something suspicious in August, she would have been found, no doubt. And I am not talking about a run of the mill dog. I am talking about a highly trained dog, just as you said. I have always felt like this case was just another botched investigation. I think that police need better and more intense training in the art of investigation of crimes like this.
lol..Zuben,
I’m looking for the autopsy report. Any hint when it was released? I’ve seemed to misplaced it.
In this motion, Mason mentions Smith vs State, suggesting Perry refer to it in considering this motion. A public defender was found in criminal contempt by a judge. The high court reversed it on appeal. “The purpose of criminal contempt is “to punish assaults or aspersions upon the authority and dignity of a court or judge”, not to avenge personal affronts.”
http://www.3dca.flcourts.org/opinions/3D05-2474.pdf
While Ashton presented their actions as willful disrespect and disobedience, I’m not so sure the supreme court would agree, and even more so after reading this.
JB, I downloaded the doc on June 19, 2009. Look on the sidebar at WFTV or else at the cma library that Dominc Casey had created if you don’t have it on your hard drive. I’ve started adding words into the title of the doc to help me find things. I should do tags instead.
OK here ya go ……….. a step by step review,
and btw, that report was due by NOON, 2 minutes after 5pm is 5:02 hours late !!!
http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2011/01/casey-anthonys-attorneys-strike-back.html
With this being such an high profile case, 160 depositions, 300 state witnesses, tens of thousands of pages of discovery, Has the Judge ruled in an unreasonable fashion? Would an higher court look at the whole work load and schedule? Did the Judge make an unreasonble ruling and got an unreasonable answer? I really do think CM would take the contempt charge to an higher court. I do not believe the 600.00 meant much.
I see a comment finally showed up. LOL… I was wondering if I was doing something wrong.. I haven’t seen Snoop on for awhile either.
Does anyone have a map of the location of each bone? Zub, how did you know the leg bones were moved and did you note that the Medical Examiner said AREA A was the original location of decomposition? They may have determined that because of the location of the shirt and the shorts?
======= ———— –
Check your email, I’ll send what I have
Good catch Zuben,
I don’t think CM filed this motion without having something to back it. I also don’t think CM would file a motion with the wrong time either. IMO, whether the documents were 2 mins. late or 5 hours too late. It was certainly excessive considering the mountains of work the defense has on their plate. Especially since it was the State who lolly-gagged and held onto discovery.
If you look at the last doc dump it’s easy to see the Sawgrass maintenance man was checked out in October of 2008. The defense team just found out about him a couple of months ago. I mean how long does it take to hand over a few sheets of paper? Oh..2 years, right.
hi getreal,
Just want you to know it’s not your name, there’s some other glitch I haven’t discovered yet.
Sorry that your comment went into mod
I’m glad to see we think alike too. Thank you for reassuring me.
NTS, you will find the map on page 3463 and a better one on 3515 with bones listed by location beginning on pg 3396. I sent JB a jpg image of the map and chart. If she can’t post it here maybe she will mail it to you. I don’t know for a fact the leg bones were moved by animals and am basing that on what the autopsy report said, that the leg bones must have been moved while some tissue still held them together because of how they were placed. I think the statement about Area A being the original location is simply meaning that she started there, in the bag and animals moved her around. Of course, they are claiming the skull had to have been there in that position for 4-6 months in order for those unidentified roots to grow to 3-6mm. I still can’t get over why there has been no mention of the lack of identification of those roots. I can see why bloggers might want to ignore it because it doesn’t support the hate Casey mentality but why hasn’t the defense or their expert mentioned that. Am I missing something? Wouldn’t it be impossible to judge root size and time needed for growth without addressing the genus and even species?
Snoop, I see that the Windemere sheriff is being charged for covering for a friend and interferring in an investigation for the rape of a child under 12. I saw a press conference that included Lawson Lamar and Sherriff Demmings. Sad, and I have to wonder how many others in the Orange County LE are willing to interfere in an investigation. The case of the child porn on an officer’s computer, blamed on his son comes to mind too. How likely is it a teen age boy would want child porn? Of course, I know of a recent case, an acquaintance of a client, that connected to a porn sharing site and was busted for kiddy porn that ended up in his folder. He deleted it when he realized what it was, but because the folder received and sent, being a shared folder, he got busted for possession and distribution. It apparently didn’t matter that he deleted it. I am also acquainted with someone in jail now, awaiting arraignment for 4th degree child abuse. My state includes a law that covers accidents, ignorence, ommision, etc, without any willful intent, $5000 bond. Now, how can anyone defend themselves? If we take our eye off our children for a minute we can be charged with 4th degree child abuse. We would automatically be guilty because we failed to protect during the time we took our attention off them. I can see they charging with lewd and lascivious conduct if we took them to the bathroom with us so we can still keep an eye on them. It’s a scary world out there. But it brings lots of money in for the government.
My ignorance is showing through my ommision. Make that an a, not an e, only one m and double the s. Where’s the embarrassed smiley when you need one?
Dr. G couldn’t be reached for comment so “…a sources close to the investigation” comes to the rescue again. http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2011/01/casey-anthony-defense-expert-questions-medical-examiners-work-jose-baez-pays-fine.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+entertainment%2Ftv%2Ftvguy+%28TV+Guy%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
Now, how could they get anyone to buy that. An upright skull gets inundated with flood waters and raging winds during a hurricane, fills up with mud, doesn’t float away, remains at attention looking to the NW and somehow mud magically sticks to the upper left inside but no where else, not even on the exterior. Hmmm. Good one. Actually, I think Dr. G did see and mention that mud. That is likely where the tooth was glued. Now, the hurricane sent one tooth upward at the same time as the mud so that it could stay there long enough to dry and act as glue. They will have quite a difficult time finding a jury gullible enough to buy that one. And they call me a Fool. They would be better off crucifying Melich and changing the story to Kronk making it roll out and it magically landed upright. Woops, that depo is already over. Too late.Ok,
I’ve got it…Cain is the scapegoat. He disturbed the skull, setting it upright then walked away telling Kronk it was only leaves. He ignored the bones next to the bag too or didn’t notice he flipped them out of the bag before he walked away. Oh Sh!+ that won’t work either. That was before Faye. Oh well, I’m sure they’ll think of something. Maybe they can call up DeathIsTooNiceForCasey, notrial4casey or joybanger to help them out. I’m sure they’d love to participate in their version of justice. I apologize. I should never read comments when I read an article. The names alone, infuriate me.
Zuben—- do you ever go to BS place?
Do you mean the BS blog? No. I rarely even go there to read, same ol… the last time was when it was mentioned here, I just took a quick peak. Why do you ask? Is someone over there impersonating me again? It supposedly happened before, even using my email address, the one I deleted the account for after my mail got hacked. So, you know what that means…One of the 3 places I’ve commented at in the past stole my addy.
Hi Zuben,
The funny thing, it’s possible the State may choose one of those ridiculous reasons that you mentioned. I LOL-ed when I read he cited “a source close to the investigation Now, who could that be??
It’ll be Kronk or Cain? Do you think Kronk will change his story again because I think Cain is snake bitten, pardon the pun.
Zuben—– I’ve re read some BS commentaries —and truth is, they are sarcastic, snarky and …….frankly, unprofessional. No wonder those that participate on his blog are so negative. He has set the tone. Hum.
I would sure like to see someone reproduce this scene where a tooth floats along with flood water and gets stuck to the side of an inside cranium of an skull that is set upright, yet the hair stays in place surrounding the skull. How much of it did RK knock down when tapping on it with his meter stick. I really can’t see this happening and it really bothers me. Where were the other teeth found?
notthatsmart ———-
you’ve presented a sick senario ….. and that is what some are offering. Ugh!
Hi Hazaka,
I haven’t seen you in awhile.. I know what NTS described is graphic. I have to think there will be a lot more in discussion of autopsy and the burial site. Some things just can’t be helped.
It’s a challenge to step outside of your emotions when we’re discussing the remains of a precious 2yr old little girl. I totally understand and I have a new found respect for homicide detectives.
NTS,
You have mail.
For Real?
I’ve been there and done that.. It would be nice if Bill Sheaffer would interject from time to time just to let his readers know he’s there. Maybe that would help with the snarkiness and outright rude gang tackles that they do there?? IDK..
Anyway, thanks for stopping by
Thanks for the Email Jb.
Hazaka: I apologize for the graphic text. I will be more careful in the future.
http://www.wesh.com/caseyanthony/26471656/detail.html
I see this attorney Deen is more interested in Dr. G’s protocol than what was revealed by Dr. Spitz??
NP, nts
No I don’t think Kronk dares to change his story unless he want’s to shoulder the wrath of LE everytime he gets behind the wheel. But he is also suffering snake bite too, isn’t he? Granted, it was a golden snake with the Midas touch but, he also lost his job. I don’t know how they can make this story stick, that Caylee was found in this position and had been there long enough to indent the ground and have 6 months worth of root growth through her, unless they just try to attack the credibility of the defense state witnesses. Then it will come down to who is better at cross examination, which is really sad.
For Real, I agree. I assume we are all speaking of the Schaeffer blog and not the other BS blog I just found out existed. I won’t bother with that one either. Actually, I pretty much just read here. Don’t have time for much else other than the docs, which are so slow to come.
Snoop, the Windemere police chief story I mentioned yesterday caught my attention again. NeJames is representing him. His bail for bribing a fellow LE is only $150 and for misconduct, $5000. http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/orange_news/011311-bond-hearing-windermere-police-chief
According to the 11/29 hearing, Perry said he expected the defense DNA report to be in by Jan, 15, 45 days from that date. If you recall, Ashton hadn’t even sent the items out yet on Nov. 29 but said he expected that to be done that week, which would have been within that next 4 days. Now, if it isn’t back by this deadline, I wonder who will be blamed.
Exactly Zuben, that’s what I thought. Kronk has added details to his testimony a few times already. Add to the fact that numerous searchers were near the location that we KNOW of. So are we to think now that the body was being stepped on? Does that mean JJ & TES were there? Just my thoughts…
I’d rather think the body wasn’t there at all then to think that so many didn’t find her.
Thanks for bringing the Windemere police chief story here too. The amount of the chief’s bail is a joke. OMG, but doesn’t surprise me. Florida’s police protocols are in the limelight now for all America to see with the attention on the Anthony case.
I’m surprised they are being so blatant. You would think that they would have cleaned it up a bit since there’s so much exposure. Wow.
notthatsmart & JB —- perhaps I didn’t express my self properly…. I wasn’t criticizing you ………… rather ….. others who come up with stupid theories re: the remains…… forgive me if you took my comments the wrong way
I want folks to speak up if they feel that I am speaking to graphic in nature. I do not want to offend anyone. I do have an desire to lay this all out on an large map on an table and try to figure out how and why bones were clustered and moved.
Thank you for clarifying that Hazaka, but I need to be careful just the same.
notthatsmart
——————- that is kind of you — but … I suspect JB wants us all to be forthright and honest!
Baez’s check was delivered to the SA office today, along with a letter from Mason suggesting they not cash it. Ashton refused to give the media a copy of the check and letter, saying it wasn’t public information but the clerk gave it to them anyway. Interesting, huh? The video at the link is much more interesting than the article. http://www.wesh.com/r/26486629/detail.html
Thanks Zuben..my 1st thought..O.M.G.!!
I hope nothing nefarious happens to Mr. Baez’s checking account. WESH created a video showcasing the poor man’s check, routing numbers. Need I say more?
I realize the enormity of this trial and how profitable the Anthony case is to the media but to vilify Jose Baez in this fashion and sink to this level is beyond me. I think Jeff Ashton would agree. This case is not about Jose Baez.
I’ll have to say an extra prayer for Jose Baez tonight and maybe I should say another one for WESH because they are evil.
No problem Hazaka, Misunderstandings are expected on blogs.
It would be really great if we all had video phones, lol, then I could see your eyes rolling and you could see me talking with my hands moving as I do. which is hard when I try to type. Something tells me you’re animated as well. lol
Have a great evening.
NTS …If I may add something..Zuben has been quite graphical on occasions..and Hazaka
has been quite complimentary for his analytical descriptions and views. I am quite sure, that she did not mean, the way it was taken! I appreciate those graphic pictures that you and Zuben
are able to paint. Although it is not what we would like to analyze..Caylee’s remains..as JB
said. We need to be able to put our emotions aside..to look at the scientific side of the remains! I do hope you do not hold back doing so!
I am not able to visualize what the 2 of you have been able to write. I guess science has
never been my forte. So I look forward to someone that can point out those things. I read Zuben’s posts last evening “over and over” until I was so tired..I could not stay awake to
comment myself LOL..I was so captivated with his descriptions etc..and trying to visualize
and comprehend all..I was looking for possible answers how and why. It was VERY interesting how the 2 of you can look at the remains..directions..where the bones were..the
clusters …etc etc.
So please do not stop being graphic! I don’t think you have offended anyone.
IMO JB’s blog is about facts..seeking truth..seeking justice! And the scientific facts of
the remains are crucial to all of the above:)
Zuben ..I am in bit of a hurry..but will be back in a few about the Windermere incident.
Hey, no worries. I will continue to post things about the evidence. I am concerned right now about the press and the clerks office. I do not know who is to blame for this letter and check getting released. On the one hand, I am concerned that JA is behind this. He exposed JB and his emails to the public. Attorneys talke, Attorneys negotiate, it happens every day in America. I am concerned that JA is attempting to cut off all communication with the defense. That they can not work together to move things along. I am sure now that the defense will not talk to this man unless they absolutely have to. The Judge will not be able to ask them to work anything out, it will all have to be micromanaged and ruled.
On the other hand, it could have been an simple mistake on the clerks part. If JA said it was not public information, then why did it get released? I am not sure I can blame the press, for they are dogs and they have to be fed. I can only wish they would practice responsibility.
This young man’s carreer could be at stake here. I want defense Attorneys to be able to do their job. It seems they have painted JB as some kind of an dumb monster. I hold the Judge somewhat responsible for making an unreasonable ruling in the first place. He was the man that was suppose to stop the circus. Now his disrespect toward JB has permeated throughout the press. I hope JB goes in that court room tomorrow and has an poker face, no snarky looks and no rolling eyes.
All this being said, the court of public opinion seems to have convicted Cm and Jb, but what about Kc?
Zuben, yes..Once again someone from the Fl LE has made nation wide news. Chief Saylor of Windermere. Windermere is a very affluent community..as most are aware of the Tiger Woods accident. They also did a fine cover up of that.
Saylor was employed.. prior to being hired in the Windermere police dept. in 97.. in the police dept. in Melbourne Fl. 3 weeks before resigning that department in Melbourne, he was busted trying to pick up a prostitute on North Parramore ave. in ORLANDO. North Parramore ave. is a rather dark scary neighborhood. You would not drive down that street without windows up, doors locked..even in daylight. If you are on N. Parramore ave. , it would be for drugs or prostitutes.
Parramore ave. Orlando… is about 1 1/2 hours from Melbourne. He passed a
sobriety test..and he denied trying to pick up a prostitute to have sex..he first said
he thought she was a hitchhiker LOL (The only people walking around Parramore
are drug dealers and prostitutes) Then admitted he was trying to pick her
up for sex. Well, OPD did not arrest him, nor investigate..they
turned it over to the Melbourne Police Dept. Melbourne investigated but ruled there
was not enough evidence? How about his admission to OPD? Anyway, he resigned..I am
assuming not voluntary.
But..He hires into Orlando police dept. in 97.???? Then 2002 the town manager of Windermere Cecilia Bernier acknowledges she hired Saylor as police chief in 2002 despite a background investigation that showed he had resigned in 1996 from the Melbourne Police Department after being accused of picking up a prostitute in Orlando.
Further more, of his 25 years in LE career he has had multiple investigations!!!
I believe he is originally from CA. But regardless..the Orlando incident with the prostitute..
having sex involved..and protecting this friend of his..who has been accused of more than
one sexual abuse on a minor. One 2003..another 2009.. both under age 12. Are there more that have not come forward? Saylor stopped both investigations..Sounds like
Saylor had more to hide, than just helping a friend. Upon investigation into the sexual abuse case taking place, Saylor said the papers were lost or misplaced. Now, it would not suprise me his friend, Scott Bush looking at the possibility of a life sentence, may come back with states evidence against Saylor!
Lawson Lamar (SNIPPED)
Asked whether there was some reason — such as money — that Saylor would have helped keep the allegations against Bush quiet, Lamar responded: “The risk he took is so giant that we’re looking for some other reason.”
We have so many incidents in LE and the Judicial courts, commissioner..Sheriff..Governor judges…Resignations..firings..pornography..corruption.. Just in 2010!
Sheriff Beary,The acting Sheriff in the beginning of the Anthony case… who opted against running for re-election in 2008 after 16 years as sheriff, was accused of violating state law by taking consulting fees from a nonprofit corporation..that he and Sheriff’s Office personnel formed using taxpayer dollars. He was fined $20,000 by the govenor in 2009.Feb.2010 they received a check.. but it was drawn upon the “Fla Sheriffs Self Insurance Fund. Governor Christ..in Oct. 2010 ordered if not paid by Oct 15th he would take legal action.
However, Meanwhile Governor Christ who was running for Independent.. Senate.. found himself also faced as Beary in a financial scandal as of recent. Sept 2010..the Florida Republican Party claims its internal audit found that Gov. Charlie Crist ran up possibly “hundreds of thousands of dollars” worth of inappropriate charges in connection with the state party’s spending scandal. Auditors found that Crist, Greer and Delmar Johnson, the party’s former executive director, may have inappropriately spent money on travel, consultants, meetings and other items not related to party business. Hey..like that nice private Jet from Pete Benavides?
Greer, who stepped down from his post in January 2010, was indicted in June on six felony counts that included “organized scheme to defraud, money laundering, and four counts of grand theft.”
By the Way..Now Christ has joined Morgan and Morgan..representing ZG civil suit Anthony’s.
Judges… We just had a judge step down involuntarily Oct 2010 for misconduct..ordered to pay 10,000 for court and other costs.I think Judge Eaton was a character witness for him.
The Orange county commissioner Mildred Fernandez.. arrested April 2010 She was arrested on felony charges of bribery, grand theft. Offering payoffs.
Oct 2010..Judge Eriksson resigned involuntarily for misconduct. Fine 10,000 for court
and other costs. Jailing indigent people for fines. Jailing people whom he did not like their attorney. Humiliating people in the court room. Public defenders..worked to get all
the people he jailed and those that were about to be at the hands of this judge..freed.
I could go on..There are several LE..incidents…Just TOOOO MANY to list..
Error//I started posting about the judge in the last comment and then reposted at the bottom OOPs
Wow, all that corruption and that is only what has been found. It seems quiet here, but maybe they are better at hiding things here. lol
nts SNIP….
This young man’s carreer could be at stake here. I want defense Attorneys to be able to do their job. It seems they have painted JB as some kind of an dumb monster. I hold the Judge somewhat responsible for making an unreasonable ruling in the first place. He was the man that was suppose to stop the circus. Now his disrespect toward JB has permeated throughout the press.
All this being said, the court of public opinion seems to have convicted Cm and Jb, but what about Kc?
I agree 100%! I too wonder who was really responsible. I am not 100% on JA having nothing to do with it. He told the media it was not public record alledgedly. But does the County Clerk automatically release? I did not think so?
And the media…WHOA…it wasn’t evin KB and WFTV! WESH releases on the news..not just
the internet…A video of JB’s CHECK!!!!!! The letter is one thing. But his check with acct and routing #s!!!!!!!!!! That is grounds to get sued for sure! At the very least the #s should have
been blocked out!……..
I would really like to know who is responsible!
I would assume if it comes across as Baez youth and experience in these matters..is taken that
he is giving ineffective counsel. That it would apply to the entire defense team..as they didn’t do anything to help him out. I hope it is not received that way!
Zuben, the link nts gave last night of the canvas bag..is the canvas bag. I have some
other photos here I will link you to.http://media.photobucket.com/image/caylee%20anthony%20laundry%20bag/cayleecross/Georgedepo8.jpg?o=7#!oZZ11QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fmedia.photobucket.com%2Fimage%2Fcaylee%20anthony%20laundry%20bag%2Fcayleecross%2FCindydepo22.jpg%3Fo%3D11
Hi Snoop,
Good comments. I just wanted to point out that corruption is rampant, not just Orlando. Speaking of corruption our Ex-Gov was just released from prison today after serving 8 yrs. It was on the nightly news and all the news reporters commended his aide on getting him a new driver’s license..LOL They were so proud of him.
kRaZy huh?
NTS,
I decided to look back in the autopsy docs to see what I could find about what procedures were taken with the analysis of the skull. I have to admit, it’s not easy to read knowing this was a little tiny girl. Broke my heart.
Skimming over the autopsy report, I noted:
Dr. David Hall on pg 6467 under heading Time Since Death
On Dec 23, 2008 and Feb 4, 2009, he examined photographs of roots growing into the bones and determined a minimum period of approximately 4 months for the largest roots. It is important to note that the bones would first need to be disarticulated, completely skeletonized, and then stabilized for roots to adhere to and grow into the bones.
~~~
If I use December 11th as the time of photograph, minus 4 months would be August 11th.
Aug 11th, minus another 2 weeks to skeletonize in the Florida summer, I’d estimate the body was placed there July 28th. Where was Casey then?
I should say appears to be IMO..I think it is the lighting in the photo nts linked that makes
it appear whiter. What appears to be a wider metal ring I believe is dirt not metal. The leaves and black bag
have light shining on them. it was raining that day. Was it re produced to take pics..or did
they have it covered with the that blue canopy..and they were using lighting?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57674527@N05/5353446033/lightbox/
There is a photo of the bag also by brand name. The round Krush container. Notice
it is water resistant.
Jb Yes I agree that corruption is rampant, thus the importance that all stand for justice!
Zuben brought to my attention a couple of times of the Chief in Windermere. As I was addressing it, it occurred to me just in the news in the past 6 months, in the Orlando area.
Not including the state by far LOL There are much poorer areas,
in other states and other cities..with higher crime..greater desperation..and being run by pure
corruption. Which is even worse IMO.
Yes, Casey was in jail until Aug 21st on her $500,200 bond ..Released the day after Faye
got to central Fl. Hadn’t even been indicted yet. You said approximately 4 months..Maybe just 4 months back..Aug 11th..Kronks first call LOL..
==========
lol, August 11th does ring a bell. Do we have all this figured out or what!! hahaha
It’s just another one of many coindences that we come across..geesh.
JB
Good Morning!
Same place, new decor!
Just amazing how close these remains were to the road!The more I look back at these pictures the more convinced I am that someone passing by could have peeped in.And anyone up until Faye passed through could have seen no problem! Even after Faye..I still find no way that someone could not see this by just stepping in. Let alone professional search teams! I have said before..professional search and rescues should not have had a problem..and would have been equipped with the necessary gear. And from the positioning of these remains..they would not have needed much.
There may be some repeats in here..but as I couldn’t remember which ones I had. They depict especially from
the air..fence pictures etc… how truley close she was!Not only that..in the pictures captured before they
cleared..it also becomes more obvious that was a very obtainable area. I am familiar with all the foilage..nothing preventive there of walking in there. When I was at the scene last month..further down towards the school was more briar. I pictured that that area must have been the same. I can see it was not.
We all have seen these pictures before. But I find after so long looking back..it is inconceivable..that
no one seen the remains except RK. How would it be even
remotely possible Cain did not see. They paint quite a
different picture, than the reality of these photos..Flooded or not, if I were a jurror I would find SO hard to comprehend! Hope this works
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57674527@N05/show/with/5354136192/
YES..LMAO..I was like..I definitely need some sleep.LOL LOL..I sent my comment and then the new format LOL
I like
lol Snoop, I’m still working..so it’s not your eyes..it’s me
Good night Snoop, I think I’m done for the night too.
Looking forward to the hearing tomorrow.
Snoop, I feel the same. All of those protesters in that area?? IDK..It’s really strange the way this is playing out. Mind-boggling!
Woooh, Snoop, what a mess. You sent me into google mode. Nearly half or Windemere’s police force got jobs there while under investigation for wrong doing elsewhere. Sounds like a safehouse, doesn’t it? I wonder who Saylor’s buddies are in Orlando.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-05-02/news/os-windermere-police-20100502_1_windermere-police-windermere-officers-chief-daniel-saylor/2
I didn’t realize all this was going on with Beary. Maybe Saylor will hire The Beary Defense Group as consultants for his trial. http://kevinbeary.com/expert-witness Even though he has shamed his badge and position, he still receives over $100,000/yr in retirement income from them, has other sources of income and has the gall to try to use tax payer funds to pay his fines. He’s a scam artist, no doubt. All the more reason to scrutinize the actions of LE in this investigation.
Snoop, the pic you linked is the canvas bag but the pic that NTS linked was different, smaller. Here are both links to compare. The diameter of the canvas bag was 16″. You can see that this item is narrower than the garbage bag but quite a bit. Also, the black bag was partly inside the canvas bag.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/caylee%20anthony%20laundry%20bag/cayleecross/Cindydepo22.jpg?o=11
http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/021809remainsfoundOCSOpictures_set4/1/lg/196281.htm
Also, they said they couldn’t put the tent over the main remains area so they put it next to it, on the West side. Here is a good pic to see where she was and access into the woods, which was an obvious path. She was just on the left side of this blue tent. You can see the opening or path, next to the tree. http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/021809remainsfoundOCSOpictures_set4/1/lg/196422.htm She would have been behind that large tree. If you go here, http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18254177/detail.html you can see the same tree between LE car and Kronk’s truck, in photo number 3. In the arial video LE is entering a little further to the left. http://www.wftv.com/video/18255280/index.html Keep in mind that the pathway was diagnal and heading to the SW, so toward that large tree that the tent is next to. But, I just ran across the animation they plan to use and it isn’t fitting the details in the report, saying the blue tent was errected next to Area A and the pictures I’ve linked too. See http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20318602/detail.html which is one of the images of that animation. It shows Area A where the tent was erected, West of the large tree. Keep in mind that the view in all of these images is from the North, looking South, so West is on the right.
Have a great day all.
Again — trying to clarify —-graphic is good ….it’s factual… but what I was referencing were those who come up with bizarre…. more “hypothisizing” than factual scenarios re: the remains…. it’s as if some …on OTHER blogs revel in the possiblities…..
—- and JB — I LIKE your new format —-
Good Morning Zub & Hazaka,
The hearing is for 2pm today. Should be a good one..
I was busy early this morning and didn’t get a chance to check out Snoops link. I want to say, I’m shocked as well. The aerial view tells it all. You can really see how close the remains were to the street. It is incomprehensible that a run-of-the-mill cadaver dog didn’t find the remains in 3 seconds flat.
Zub,that pic of the canvas bag is new to me. I missed that one. It’s a lot smaller than I thought. Wow!
Well I have some errands to run this morning but will bbl.
Thanks Hazaka! I’m trying to get used to it. I was really stuck on the fleur de lis but with the Saints out of the playoff..
I see what you mean, Hazaka, and agree. JB, I forgot to tell you I like the format fine too. I just have to readjust my eyes, LOL. It’s so much brighter in here. As I said yesterday, I don’t think that other pic, with a white object infront of the black plastic bag with yellow handles can be the laundry bag because it looks much to small to me. The bag still had the wire rim intact and is 16″ diameter. It should look as wide as a 32 gallon trash bag and with the wire it would not be able to be made to look smaller than 16″ across. Also, they supposedly picked up the whole bundle, bones and all, putting it on a tarp to send to the ME.
I’m hoping to be able to watch the hearing today. I haven’t been able to get the last couple of live feeds to work in firefox on my vista machine for some reason. I just went looking for a live feed and it still won’t work. I opened the dreaded IE and it works so I may have to use that instead. Are any of you having problems with live feeds?
Zub: IIRC the blue tent was off to the side at first, but moved over the remains later. I think it is in Susan M report. We should probably do an time line of the events that morning. It should be noted that Yuri said that one of the Csi’s were on the scene before him. Someone was taking photos early before the tent was even there.
Thanks for the link snoop,
I had’nt looked at those pics in a while,
I would’nt even feel safe whizzing in that area!
And I keep hearing Sherrif Beary saying a good 60 ft off the road.
(He did a very good job misleading the public)
which is exactly what was intended!!
Zuben et al……… probably won’t be able to see the hearing today –:-( But hopefully reviewing it will be part of my “evening’activities!
nts..I agree with your last post.
Jb..again like the format..I will be at work..catch trial this eve.The pic of the laundry bag I linked to Zuben last night ..has other pics of the shorts etc. they are inlarged.http://media.photobucket.com/image/caylee%20anthony%20laundry%20bag/cayleecross/Georgedepo8.jpg?o=7#!oZZ11QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fmedia.photobucket.com%2Fimage%2Fcaylee%20anthony%20laundry%20bag%2Fcayleecross%2FCindydepo22.jpg%3Fo%3D11
Zuben, again that bag is at the remain site..appears to be canvas..photos taken with different lighting affect the photos..perhaps we are looking at the bottom of the bag if it is a krush,.The only other explanation would be fox news had pictures of another garbage bag and canvas bag..or put it there themselves?
Yes, quite interesting about the Windermere cops. I live in Volusia..but do not recall.
Hi Hazaka..I think everyone knows now what you meant LOL..I know sometimes I think my comments could be taken wrong as well. Especially the ones to D. I was joking and I have not seen him since!
RH some interesting views.
http://blog.richardhornsby.com/2011/01/two-wrongs-dont-make-a-right/comment-page-1/#comment-3705
Richard Hornsby explains the problem created by Judge Perry by fining Jose Baez. hmm…good read.
It’s refreshing to hear an unbiased opinion coming from Jose Baez’s peers.
snipped from Richard Hornsby’s blawg:
But more problematic for attorneys like me, Judge Perry’s fine sets a precedent for other Judges in the circuit. And if it is believed it is okay to fine Jose Baez without finding him in contempt, what is to stop them from fining me any other attorney whose response to a Discovery Order is not believed to be in “substantial compliance.”
~~
So it seems JP has finally made a new and unique decision but as I expected, he made this decision in favor for the prosecution.
Hearing was very hard for me to watch but I did get it to stream on IE. It kept stopping, skipping, etc. Defence is waiting on state to reschedule the LE depos that were no shows. Feb. 18 is the deadline to get them done. I found this part interesting because Mason said they needed the state’s help in scheduling since they need to be present and Burdick referred to 2 witnesses that weren’t even part of that 7 or 8 the defense referred to. She had nothing to say about scheduling problems for those no show members of LE.
Perry and Mason seemed to enjoy the 2nd sidebar more than Ashton who kept looking off to the side. Nothing was mentioned about the DNA, that I heard, but one of the reports (I couldn’t hear who) Baez expects to receive this weekend.
After court was adjourned, Baez took Lamar aside, Mason and Burdick followed. That was Lamar, right? They then changed their mind about where to talk and went the other way, out of camera view, I assume, as the camera shut off. If the letter was sent to Ashton, are they going over his head to Lamar?
Did you notice that Perry kept addressing the State first when asking questions of both? Hornsby’s comments are interesting. I don’t know if I would exactly call him unbiased though. He really doesn’t like them and I don’t think it is just Baez’ inexperience or Mason’s age, although that is a rude thing to criticize someone for. Quite often wisdom comes with age, which he will appreciate when his beauty fades. But, I would assume he knows what he is talking about when he says Perry acted “against” the law. It took courage for him to speak out like that too, since I’m sure he comes before him from time to time.
I missed some of the hearing. Did they say that AH, TR and some other depos aren’t yet done?
I think the Judge was trying to do it without an contempt charge. According to RH, that contempt charge brings in an whole new format and people. Probably no time for that. I think that Cm was telling JA not to cash the check yet because it may cause problems for all of them. I am curious as to how JP is going to fix this mess.
Unreasonable rulings bring unreasonable responses. Garbage in Garbage out. Its too much to hurry things a along. Lets get it right the first time. IMO
He may be telling him not to cash it because he doesn’t have a legal right to the money, if Hornsby is right. So what do you think about the pow wow after court that Baez initiated? He didn’t pull Ashton or Burdick aside, it was the other guy. I think I had the name wrong though. I don’t think it was Lamar but who was it and why did he pull him aside?
From Hals blog:
WESH’s Bob Kealing reported that prosecutors have acknowledged they received a list from the defense of 10 searchers who say they didn’t see anything in the spot where Caylee’s remains were later found. Kealing later added that defense attorney Cheney Mason wouldn’t say today if those witnesses will make the same claim under oath. “Remember the defense has spent a lot of time trying to find searchers who will support their theory that someone other than Casey put Caylee’s remains in the woods,” Kealing said.
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2011/01/casey-anthony-where-will-the-jurors-come-from.html/comment-page-1#comment-129488
Here is my question: Will the state attempt to impeach these 10 witnesses at deposition? or will they wait until trial?
There were three attorneys for the state today. The Judge made call out there names at the start of trial….. I do not remember his name. Perhaps JB and JA need an mediator.
JB, they sure won’t go easy on them, I’m sure.
NTS, this was the most uneventful hearing planned to date so it seems unusual that a 3rd SA would attend. Maybe they feared Perry would address the objection to the sanctions motion or they simply wanted to outnumber the defense, knowing the defendant wouldn’t be present. Just kidding on the last suggestion.
oh gee, oh my, I didn’t see much of interest for me, that is.
LOL, I like to get the inside scoop on the evidence or lack thereof. Court room soap operas bores me to death.
As I perused some comments on other blogs, I see all this is big news. As if $600 is going change Baez’s life in some huge way. Too funny.
Zuben, I know I’ve referred to Hornsby as being unbiased but I almost have to because he at least doesn’t ignore the obvious as most of these so-called legal analysts so I have to say Hornsby is my favorite. How forth right and courageous of him to say Judge Perry was wrong. Good for him.
oh gee, oh my, I didn’t see much of interest for me, that is.
LOL, I like to get the inside scoop on the evidence or lack thereof. Court room soap operas bores me to death.
As I perused some comments on other blogs, I see all this is big news. As if $600 is going change Baez’s life in some huge way. Too funny.
Zuben, I know I’ve referred to Hornsby as being unbiased but I almost have to because he at least doesn’t ignore the obvious as most of these so-called legal analysts so I have to say Hornsby is my favorite. How forth right and courageous of him to say Judge Perry was wrong. Good for him.
Oh, I agree too, JB. Hornsby is my favorite to read too. Have a good night.
Just got in…seen the hearing.Yes, Zuben I did notice the questions being directed
a lot first to the state. I also noticed the bailiff..while they were at the bench..he almost leaned in on the conversation LOL..However, whatever that was about JP said it needed to be public record so.. Yes again, I did notice Cheney and JP seemed to be having the most fun..with Baez being right there as well. But Ashton looked like he was not so happy. I did not notice at the end of Baez pulling anyone aside..I will have to review video.
I am wondering..why he would state when KC would be transported..in open court. I can see media hiding in bushes..and roadways now.
I have not seen a link here of the letter in form that was sent to SAO with Baez check.
I was wondering when WFTV would jump on it. But appreciate..there is not a copy of the check attached! http://www.wftv.com/pdf/26497497/detail.html
Also Zuben..Saylor made news again today..Either Windermere’s town manager, Cecilia Bernier, knew about Saylor’s history of breaking the rules and lying when he was a Melbourne officer and hired him anyway, or she never checked.
Saylor’s Windermere personnel records show he revived an infant, helped find a missing 9-month-old baby, prevented a bank robbery, and confronted armed kidnappers. Still, he was almost fired by the Melbourne Police Department.
Saylor told Windermere he left the Melbourne Police Department for personal reasons. His problems resurfaced in Windermere.
When he became chief in 2002, he was warned “the job is not political” and he should work on “controlling emotions and temper.” Several years later, his managers were “very concerned about the chief and the department” and that Saylor was “out of touch with officers.”
In 2005, Saylor got a scathing letter from Bernier for not taking a bomb threat seriously and not notifying her. She wrote that he had failed to keep her in the loop before and threatened “immediate and irrevocable disciplinary action” if he did it again.
Last year at a Police Chief’s Association conference, wives of vendors complained Saylor said things and did things to them that were inappropriate and that alcohol was involved. His membership was unanimously suspended, a rarity, and he resigned.
Scott Bush, the man who Saylor is accused of protecting, remains behind bars. He is being held at the Orange County jail without bond.
WFTV got a hold of court documents that show Bush is accused of sexually abusing three girls and a boy.
WFTV also has a letter of recommendation from the suspect Bush..to hire Saylor in 2002. That he would be an asset LMAO..yeah, asset for Bush
Also they are thinking of firing the town manager as well.
Jb says:LOL, I like to get the inside scoop on the evidence or lack thereof. Court room soap operas bores me to death
LOL..Well, JP is quite animated..when he was talking about signing a contract
and couldn’t be rufunded..he said”And I already did it” then he got this little kid look
on his face..I couldn’t tell if he was being somewhat deceptive..or was just waiting for
someone to jump at him LOL..It seems JP and Mason have some laughs. JA LB just continue to praise themselves..as they have had very few obstacles that the defense has had!
Also Cheney has a new DP case as well .. and BS even throws CM some compliments!
ONE OF CASEY’S ATTORNEYS TAKES ON ANOTHER HIGH-PROFILE CASE
The legendary local attorney who took on Casey Anthony’s case is now taking on a second high-profile death penalty case. J. Cheney Mason is now defending Isaac Burt, who’s accused of killing his girlfriend’s toddler in Oviedo.
Mason has represented the accused for 40 years and now, as if the national spotlight on the Casey Anthony trial weren’t enough, he’s taken on another high profile, high stakes case, the Oviedo man accused of murdering his girlfriend’s daughter, 3-year-old Faith Jackson, in November.
“An attorney of Cheney Mason’s caliber can easily handle these types of cases, and represent multiple defendants charged with murder,” WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said.
Mason told WFTV on Thursday he took the case after being recommended by attorneys for Burt’s family in Mississippi, and because he’s convinced of the man’s innocence.
Oviedo police say they have video proving Jackson’s mother, Crystal Aday, was out of the house when her daughter died of asphyxiation, leaving only Burt home with her.
Mason plans to challenge that timeline and Sheaffer believes neither the Anthony case nor Burt’s will suffer for his heavy workload.
“The courts will adjust the rhythm to accommodate Mr. Mason’s representation of multiple individuals charged with very serious crimes,” Sheaffer said.
Burt needed a new attorney after his public defender withdrew, citing the defendant’s $5,000 a month income; it’s an income too high for taxpayers to continue covering his legal bills.
That money comes from Burt’s military retirement benefits.
Mason insists he is not working the case pro bono, but would not say whether Burt or someone else is paying the bill.
http://www.wftv.com/news/26492040/detail.html
OOPs Zuben..the link to Saylor..also there is a video with our own KB LOL
http://www.wftv.com/news/26498137/detail.html
nts..are those the 10-15 witnesses not yet deposed by the SAO they referred to today?
Indygal says:And I keep hearing Sherrif Beary saying a good 60 ft off the road.
(He did a very good job misleading the public)
which is exactly what was intended!!
____________________________________
Hi..good to see you. Yes, I flip out everytime I review how close she was!
In the beginning ..local news stations with breaking news..they said a meter reader needing to relieve himself, just stepped inside the tree line about 6-8ft..Then when Beary held his conference..he said something like 35-40-60 ft LOL
A group of us here..glued to the tv were like WHAT? The meter reader went in
60 ft to take a pi**. LOL Pretty tough to fall for that..But the Anti KC’s had no problem
with that it seemed.
Sorry JB, you can move this to the Close But No Caylee,
anyhow sorry again
(it just seems the appropriate spot is not the popular spot therefore being missed)
know wut i’m sayin?
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/Library/CMA/reports/ocsosupreport12420_12439.pdf
page 7
The detectives are telling these searchers that the remains were found 30ft off the road, then taping their interviews.
K Im not the kellerfullist crayon in the box and don’t know exactly how important these taped interviews are, but I do know that what these searchers are saying in regaurds to where the remains were found and what and where the water levels were, are in NO WAY accurate without being shown the exact spot the remains were REALLY found.
These searches are key witnesses and there minds have been corrupted by LEs
Lies!!
Could these detectives be charged with obstruction of justice?
GRRRRR , This BURNS ME UP!!!!
If someone understands what I’m getting at and can word it better, please do. TIA
============
Hi IndyGal. Thank you for the informative link, witness description list, cool. I’m going to have to put it on the blog roll.
Thanks again,
JB
Indygal: Sometimes detectives just let the witness talk without volunteering any info. Clearly JJ was way off and Corporal E did not correct him. He let JJ make a fool out of himself IMO. Detectives will even go as far as lying to get someone to give them information. I think it is totally legal. Now when it comes time for an deposition by SAO, I do not believe that there are any lies. Not sure.
Oh, am I at the right place, did you change your format for the New Year? I loved the previous one. I’ve been out of activity for awhile. The time if rolling along very fast
to trial date, isn’t it? I thought I read some comment somewhere today that Casey might make a plea but can not find it again. Anyone familiar with anything like that?
If she were to do that, is there a time limit she has. Thanks
I can’t see the comment box to stay in boundries, sorry and I do have glasses, they must be just that, Glass!
Comment: I found this :
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6008140&postcount=852
OMG!!
I hope not,
Whatever the outcome of the trial, she at least deserves her day/weeks in court.
The only thing they’d better let her admit to is child neglect at worst,
because thats all she is guilty of. IMO
And if the penalty for neglect that leads to the death of a child called for life in prison than so be it, but at least she would not be doing time for a murder she did not commit.
NTS. Thank you for your help, Could this be possible, the prosecution, defense and judge are railroading this trial as they see fit and there will be no justice for Casey.
This indicates that they can corner her into such a position and have her think there is no way out but to plea? I really don’t know what would be best for her, but to admit anything at all seems like would be her end. This really is disturbing, It would be letting every lying one off the hook. We know LE have a lot to hide and jumped to the guilty conclusion immediately. I know everyone idolizes Tim Miller but he clearly did his part to to send Casey to death without doing the job he was allowed in for. I think he is wrong to express such opinion when first coming on to a case. JMO
I don’t like him, beat me up if you may, he did not handle his association with the
Anthonys appropriately, and laid all the blame on them. Why? simply because he
got his feelings hurt. That’s wrong. Maybe I don’t know what I am talking about because I have not had time to dig deep into it, but sometimes us dummys still see clearly. I am a patient person, but whatever is going on, I don’t see any real help for
Casey. Always puzzled me why she has not uttered one word, just totally allows JB
to act for her. Almost like she has been mind conditioned. Do I sound like a ding dong idiot? Hope not!
Hi everybody,
Wow, after reading Comment’s comment alluding to Casey taking a plea, I went to read the link NTS provided. It’s a mystery to me why this person @ WS would think that after watching today’s hearing. hmm..were we watching the same one?
In the hearing I saw, JP talked about the 40 jurors & how they were going to segregate them and when he would announce the demographics.
I was shocked by the amt it will cost to accommadate them too. $350,000 to keep them sequestered for maybe 8 weeks. lol, CM told JP it was like going to summer camp.
When JP explained HOW they would question the potential jurors and only “one lawyer” could object?? I don’t know why but it sounded like he was singling out Baez as if HE’s the bad boy in the classroom. I have to say, Baez did look cute today in a “school boyish” way.
I was also noticed that when JP refers to the jurors, he sounded like he was referring to a herd of cattle. And then of course, JA had to ask the dumbest question. Should they refer to the jurors by name or by number? Judge Perry said “by number.”..duh
They mentioned “latest discovery” and quickly Baez read off a list of the state witnesses that haven’t been deposed.
Robyn Adams, Helen Davis, Myra Derkovic, partially Det. Edwards, Sylvia Hernandez, Amy H, Ric Morales, Rick (not sure), Anthony Rusciano and one other LEO.
Of course, Miss Perfect LDB “she did hers”. ooohh..
Jeff Ashton — he’ll do his depos too IF Baez gives him the right reports. lol
In the end, Judge Perry set a deadline Feb 18th to have all the depositions completed.
I also heard the term “suppression of evidence” along with the word Motion?? Maybe that’s a hint of an upcoming motion.
I thought it was comical when JP talked about the defense and prosecutors having lunch during the jury selection. He said for them to bring a sandwich. Almost as if to say “don’t goof off”. Then came the sidebar? I have no clue as to what that was about but that bailiff was all ears. He looked like he was very interested but All came back smiling. There was a mention of “new discovery” too. hmm.. Interesting.
Lastly Judge Perry spoke about announcing to the media outlets regarding when the jury selection will take place. I’m hoping that WFTV gets their’s last.
No. I didn’t hear anything today that even hinted to a plea deal. Did I miss anything?
btw- I find this format too big, bright and not as user friendly as the other one so I’m going back to the old one. I guess I’m too old and stuck in my ways for change.
lol
hi IndyGal, (not the kellerfullist crayon in the box) lol
I semi-agree with you, however I know detectives tend to keep certain information to themselves when they question possible witnesses. For instance, they knew the remains were only 15-20 ft into the woods so if the witness knows this they might want to exaggerate a bit just to seem important and be part of the trial. jmo. I think..that’s why they held on to this information.
But I totally agree with you that Beary deliberately lied about this to the media. I’m sure LE was just as shocked as most of us to hear that a meter man found the body so close to the road in this obvious location which had been searched before many many times by many many searchers…LOL I don’t think I’m exaggerating either.
So yesss..he was in CYA mode because they knew it was detrimental to this case.
Grrrrr..absolutely. Makes you wonder how many other times, in other case this might have happened. I mean by lying to the media.
Comment, I think the font is smaller than before, resolution may not be the same as your monitor is set for. My eyes are getting bad with small print so I hit ctrl++ to read it. JB is playing around with different looks, LOL.
Thank you for the link, Snoop, and the further information on Orange County law enforcement. In the past I’ve stated that LE has all the same qualities as the criminals that they apprehend. The difference is only in how they use those qualities that makes them good or bad public servants. I think one of the most common things I’ve heard from many people is the habit of arresting someone for drug possession and only reporting part of the take, pocketing the rest, or not arresting/reporting it at all.
As far as I know nothing has come out in discovery to prove there has ever been any kind of deal offered to the defense other than that limited immunity for a while early on. Does anyone have anything to substantiate that the state ever offered a deal? They may have, off the record, as a follow up for either time they put the death penalty on but if so, it isn’t on the record and Casey didn’t take it. I’ve never seen anything from the defense that indicates they ever wanted a deal or thought their client needed it. They have stood by their client’s innocence. Correct me if I’m wrong and missed something important. Perry certainly isn’t planning on a plea. He just made a nonrefundable deposit on the hotel for the jury.
JB, they lie to the media and to witnesses, defendant, very often. Oh, by the way, I just discovered my state has a lesser/misdemeanor charge for child abuse that includes no malicious intent or knowledge. It only requires ommision (ignorence), failing to protect basically. I know someone currently charged with such for what likely was simple accident. Perhaps they are going to say he failed to disconnect the G tube before putting the baby in the crib. Somehow it got pulled out of her belly and she had to be taken to the hospital to have it put back in. CPS closed the case but the sheriff took it. The possible sentence, besides the money they will get, is up to a year in county jail.
Indygal, thank you for refreshing our memory and pointing out that LE lied to the searchers and misled them. Joe Jordon was so sure at first he searched that exact spot but then was convinced she was actually found much further in than he thought. But he was right the first time before he was misled. The man that changed his mind was a TES employee but where did he get his information? Page 6 of the doc you linked shows what you’re saying quite well.
First of all, Williams said the he walked the edge of the trees and looked in about a foot because that is where the psychic told him she’d be. Even focusing a foot or so into the trees would reveal her unless he had very narrowly focused vision. Secondly, she was 17.5′ from the curb or roadway, not 30′
Anyone remember Tim Miller saying she was found right off the side of the road in the grass?
Im not picturing grass anymore once you peek into the tree line
I remember “Grass” he said.
Could she have even been closer to the road?
The highly praised most credible beloved TM says it all below.
(I won’t make you guys do the digging)
GRACE: To Tim Miller, the director of Texas EquuSearch who has searched exhaustively for little Caylee, you know one of the first things the defense is going say is when it finally goes on trial, Texas EquuSearch searched this area, volunteer search police, search — they didn`t see the bag, now the bag is suddenly here six months later. It was obviously put there while the tot mom was in jail.
MILLER: You know what? The bag was not put there later, Nancy. I was actually out there at that scene today. It wasn`t buried. It didn`t float up. You can see where the bag was actually laying on the ground. The weeds are very thick there so it didn`t float. It would have got caught up in something.
Whoever put that bag there pulled up alongside the road, threw the bag out there in that little weeded area. So there was no digging, there was no nothing. You can actually see in the grassy area where someone had sat there for a long period of time. So it was set there. It wasn`t buried. Trust me.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/11/ng.01.html
Thanks for the link, Indygal. You know, when I listen to this repeat over and over again of everyone saying how the water was knee deep until just before this time, a week prior, according to Miller, and the vegetation is so think, then hear him say the “grass” was dead where the remains lay I almost have to laugh, knowing what I know about horticulture. Yes, there are certain plants that do well with wet feet, their roots can grow and flourish in waterlogged soil, or at least quite wet. But there are very few that can thrive with their heads under water. the top growth of those low growing plants can only survive so long under water before they begin to rot. The plant wouldn’t necessarily die out completely, it would recover but the top growth would die and regrow once the water subsided. You’ve seen the same thing in your lawn, if it is flooded or if it is covered with something for a period of time. There is no way all those low plants were covered with water for 4 months and were green on Dec. 11. Now, if those plants were water lilies, it would be a different story.
From your link…
So they sit down there with buddy Tim (and who else?) and tell him there was duck tape around the bag but then its around the skull. Maybe there is something to the hints from the defense that the tape may not have actually been around the skull?
hi Zuben & Indygal,
Just have a few minutes. I’m wrapped up in the play-off games..I just love football!
Well I think it’s safe to say the State does have a huge problem with the location and later discovery of the remains.
Even Grace knows this..lol
Zuben you’re right to question TM’s statement..duct tape around the bag? Now who’s the liar or was TM misinformed like the rest of us. The nerve of someone in LE to unofficially bring TM to the site is questionable in my mind. Had they done this and asked TM in deposition then I’d have no problem.
I remember well when Casey stated from the jailhouse “I feel she’s close”. IIRC, this was when the protesters were riding in cars near this area. Who is to say that someone didn’t throw out this bag into the wooded area during this protester frenzy? As a matter of fact, I was thinking “oh no, someone is going to dump the body close to the Ant’s house” so I wasn’t that surprised when she was found there.
There’s so many varibles concerning Suburban Drive. Sure Casey could have threw the bag out there as well but wouldn’t that be stupid of her? She’s got a car, she drives all over Orlando, so she could have easily found a better place in alligator-invested Florida than 14 houses away from her home. This doesn’t seem likely to me.
Some of Casey’s damning actions such as borrowing a shovel, acting normal, getting a tattoo, cancelling her trip to PR, etc. could easily fit into a kidnapping plot because IMO, her actions were not that of a murderous mother. No one commits murder and then borrows a shovel from a neighbor. This is why I sit on my opinion until the State can provide some tangible evidence. So far they have not.
I can’t help but feel sorry for Baez. I don’t think he knew when he took this case that his client may actually be innocent. And I do think this is why Cheney Mason joined the defense team and made this comment “he’s going to walk out of court hand in hand with Casey Anthony”. That is powerful words coming from an award winning, highly respected Florida attorney.
Absolutely, Suburban Drive is the State’s biggest obstacle and they are proving it by their actions. Their first move to hide TES records was a big give-away to me.
Indygal Thankyou for the link. Yes, it is quite upstanding for TM to say that knowing that
he… Equusearch searched there, don’t you think? Someone just threw the bag in there..
just off the road..just inside the woods. Kronk per David Dean his co worker..never even
got his feet wet back in August. And Dean could see him 6 ft in no problem..RK saw a
skull no problem..But Cain who walked down the slope..as it is stated “he slid walking back up” did not see the skull..nor did he get wet. matter of there were 4 police officers to that area and no one seen a skull.
After Faye Equusearch comes to Fl. A professional search team with, that has various
types of equipment. But NO BOOTS? Leonard Padilla has a dive team..diving waters. But no one that went to Suburban drive was able to get in to some flood waters to look for Caylee?
At some point..TM and MN become buddies. MN quits the Anthony’s..The same week RK
calls his estranged son says I know where Caylee is..Im going to get her..And he does!
MN out of the goodness of his heart?..pays Kronk $5,000. Then he goes on to represent
TM to protect VIP documents KC’s defense needs. He hides some docs from the defense
but allows BC ..Anthony’s current attorney to view all of them. Baez calls out MN and BC on this..So BC decides to quit the Anthony’s as well???
Now per TM he tells NG that he and LE are tight! He even gets to go back to the scene..like one of the boys. IMHO nothing here measures up. Something is VERY wrong..But not just in this
circle..but a few others as well. IMHO..Nothing..and I mean nothing..can or should be taken
at face value in this case! IMHO that body was not conceivably there..that close..and no one
seen what RK did 4 times. What has he got some hidden potential that no one else that
scanned that area has? I don’t think so. Something is definitely wrong!!!
I will go as far to say that IMO there are MANY hidden truths in this matter. And not from KC. I will also go as far as to say Maybe that duct tape was placed by RK just like one of the
commentators on NG said..To attach it to something to weigh it down till he could go back
a few months later ..not look suspicious..yet no one else would see?
But if Casey did not murder Caylee..and there was no terrible accident..then who murdered Caylee?..
Did someone find the remains and transport them to the area near KC’s home
to implicate her? Did Kio’s statement that she believed if KC hid the remains.. it would
be nearby the pet burial site ..provoke someone to plant them in the vicinity..?
Hi Snoop,
Good to see you again. You must be my sister from another mother, lol or something like that because we agree on so many things in this case. What amazes me is that 90% of the blogging community doesn’t see this.
I have a question I’d like to ask you because you’re near Orlando. Do you mind if I email you? I know I have your email addy but I rather ask first.
As for finding the remains, another thing we have to keep in mind, the cadaver dogs. I would think even a sub-standard dog would pick up on something. I think my dog, a St. Bernard-Collie mix would have found her. When I walk Mazie she leads me to all kinds of strange things. She puts her nose to ground and will lead for blocks if I let her so it’ll be interesting to hear what Officer Forgey from the K-9 unit has to say.
Remember Gale St. John’s dog got sick and was let out of the van probably within 60 ft of Area A and didn’t lead anyone to the remains. It’s all very very strange.
BTW, last night I went crazy looking for a video of the burial site that was done similar to a re-enactment in cartoon graphics. lol, I wish I knew the proper name..Anyway, if you know where I can find it please share. I couldn’t remember if it were you or Zuben who posted it. I’d love to use it as link. It was really neat and very informative.
Well, gnite. Hope to see you soon…
LE were convinced after the wild goose chase and lies KC told..that KC had murdered
her child..or that there had at the very least.. been an accident. I do not think they ever believed
Caylee to be alive. Was Caylee alive at that point? Was any of KC’s story true?
Susan Smith bawled her eyes out on National Tv making pleas for her children’s safe return.
For 9 days she stuck to her story that her 2 boys had been abducted..when she actually
seat belted them in..put the car in drive..released the brake..and let them plunge from the ramp into the water. Her parents divorced at age 7. her father committed suicide 5 weeks later. Her step father sexually abused her. As most sexually abused, she went on to have
many affairs..many sexual encounters, even while married. Having been smitten with an attractive..wealthy man..she lost it when he told her she was everything he wanted..except for that is..they came from different back grounds ..she shouldn’t have had an affair with his father.. and he didn’t want her children. He wrote her a very detailed Dear John..Dear Susan letter.
2 jail guards were punished for having sex with her..her sexual activity was found out
due to contracting a sexual transmitted disease.Susan Smith after confessing..got 30 yrs to life. She will be up for parole in 2025 at 53 yrs old.
The bottom-line was that Susan, as outwardly normal as she might have appeared, was in truth hiding a deep-seeded mental illness.
Casey Anthony did not bawl in front of tv cameras. She did not make pleas for Caylee’s
safe return. Why? Did she think she would be returned?
KC’s letter to Adams…”I know that Caylee’s nanny, the real Zenaida, the girl who was my friend for four years, I know in my heart that she`s not responsible, and I don`t blame her for not showing her face. Would you want to be sitting here with me for doing something that you didn`t do?”
“I was going to take Caylee and move away.” OK? “Unfortunately, my plans got beyond tangled when Zanny wouldn`t tell me where she and Cays were. I had asked her to take Cays for a few days so I could put some stuff together, money I had saved, new clothes, new in everything. That`s why I waited to report her missing because she was and wasn`t.”
http://www.news4jax.com/download/2010/0406/23069328.pdf
???? What does all that mean?
KC also says in the same letter..I started having seizures when I went home in September.
We think they are caused by stress. I’ve had a few others while here in jail. If I ever have a headache,please remind me to take something. That is the only sign before it happens, and always in my sleep.
On Nov 18/07 Casey was at JG’s house..they had drank the night before IIRC. However, she was fine in the morning. Went home and came back. They were taking a nap and she went into a seizure.
SNIP: Psychogenic NonEpileptic Seizures PNES
A specific traumatic event, such as physical or sexual abuse, incest, divorce, death of a loved one, or other great loss or sudden change,
Conversion disorder tends to develop during adolescence or early adulthood but may occur at any age. It appears to be somewhat more common among women.
“For some patients with psychogenic nonepileptic seizures, the seizures are a manifestation of trauma, which is also known as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. In order to treat patients with PTSD, the clinician has to take the seizure apart to see what the seizure represents in terms of emotions and memory as well as where this trauma is stored in the body.
” She postulates that when a person experiences trauma such as physical abuse, sexual abuse, witness to violence, his/her body can absorb this trauma. Therefore, a seizure is the body’s way of expressing WHAT THE MIND AND MOUTH CAN NOT.
http://www.epilepsy.com/articles/ar_1112967056
SNIP: Frontal Lobe Seizures:
Depending on the frequency and duration of seizures, frontal lobe epilepsy may affect memory, motor skills and other brain functions. However, more research is needed.
Frontal lobe seizures often occur during sleep http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/frontal-lobe-seizures/DS00810.html
Did something traumatic happen to Casey and Caylee..and she does not remember?
BUT..she remembers dropping her at the Sawgrass apartments with a ZG..AND ironically there was a ZG who admitted to being at Sawgrass on 6/17. KC didn’t impersonate her..she was there by her own admission. KC did not come up with that name by finding a card somewhere at Sawgrass, because RG said she told him that name in 06. The correlation is?
The odds are?
However, in regards to trauma..I mentioned before.. the allegation that Cindy choked Casey
June 15th..We had a detailed discussion in regards to that here. Also, was KC sexually abused? Now I pose another question..Was Caylee ever sexually abused?
Who took this video I know I have posted before http://www.you,,but..at the .30 mark it that is not Cindy or Casey voice..who is it.. and what are they saying? Why the filming under the highchair?????http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDoeJm74dd4
KC did not confess in 9 days or 2 1/2 yrs behind bars in isolation.
Casey adds a #7 on Affidavit 3/9/2009 that she signed a retainer and gave no clauses for Baez to “sell her story”
SNIP:
I believe that Mr Ashton is angry because I have refused to take a plea agreement for
a crime that I DID NOT COMMIT.
http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0310/18900892.pdf
Thus she has no reason to confess..to something she DID NOT DO.
Ok..I need sleep..LOL
If anyone knows ..I believe it was FBI interview..But I can not find where Cindy talks
about a long term illness Lee had when he was younger..TIA
Hi JB..We do agree on a lot. LOL Zuben posted that link..animation
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20318602/detail.html
Yes you can email me anytime. Better to use the same address but a gmail.com
But feel free to use either. i just am into that email a lot. its my KC place LOL
good nite or good morning..
Oh..if you know what interview Cindy was talking about LA’s long term illness when
he was younger..I thought it was the interview with FBI but ..I had it saved somewhere
but I can’t find. I forgot what his illness was about..but I know it inhibited his activities
and school etc. She talks about how it effected KC..or how good she was with him..or something..Anywaysssssssssssssssssssssssssss…TIA
This picture looks like A LOT of LOVE
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57674527@N05/5359634756/
The highchair video link didn’t work so I tracked it down. http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGdSB42DJNcaEAbvFXNyoA?p=you+tube+caylee+anthony&pvid=Qlaaf0oG7v4_pS75TIwSEw59TOyzGU0y0w4AAd2g&vs=youtube.com&vst=0&type=yahoo_avg_hs2-tb-web_fi&fr=yhs-avgb&fr2=site&xargs=0&pstart=1&b=111&xa=Nd8_PAaSnxKGYQShwdbFSA–,1295264248 I know a lot has been made of this video but it seems to me, just a game of peek a boo without speaking. At first the camera focuses on her feet being crossed then zooms up to the opening where she might peak under to see where the camera disappeared to. But Caylee goes the other way to find the hidden camera and head of the photographer. Caylee reminds me of my cat, going the opposite way you’d expect. There are other videos of Caylee with the photographer not speaking, simply capturing Caylee naturally. I think Casey is behind the camera.
Snoop, that picture surely shows a great deal of love on both their parts and I’ve seen many others like it. Notice the famous looking Glass doesn’t touch on any of these to judge Casey and her relationship to her daughter.
JB, regarding Casey’s jailhouse letters, I can’t understand why she would use Cays for a nickname for Caylee. It is more a nickname for Casey than Caylee. I wondered if perhaps when Caylee was attempting to say her own name, this might be how it would come out because L is the last letter a child can speak clearly. But S seems like an unlikely substitute. W is the normal L sound for a toddler until they get older. So, why would Casey call her Cays. It’s almost as if she is substituting herself or speaking about herself. Do you recall if the As were asked anything about this in the depos? I think that would be a question that would come up.
On page 13591 of the doc that you linked, she says,
The envelope that follows this 11 page letter is dated Oct. 21. This is a week after the murder inditement. So, is she referring to her dad as Daddy or is this her pet name for God? I’m sure the defense team is seeing to it she is fully evaluated to gain insight into any possible seizures. At least I hope so. I worry that a lack of resources will limit what they can do. And, in their situation, I certainly wouldn’t trust the doctors working for the county or state.
The envelope that follows this 11 page letter is dated Oct. 21. This is a week after the murder inditement. So, is she referring to her dad as Daddy or is this her pet name for God?
**********************************************************************************************
Maybe it’s her pet name for Maya derkovich and the “daddy” tat on her neck.!?
Maybe days will answer this here since he’s avoiding elsewhere?
she still has not reimbursed her tiniest victim i know what the subject was. you were defending casey for something she DIDN’T DO Jealous because Amy has a job? that’s what people that further their education do, they get meaningful employment. and can GO PLACES on their own dime. Amy found her niche and casey was busy trying to steal hers, that never works. CASEY didn’t reimburse A N Y B O D Y. E V E R. someone else had to pay it for her she has no money tell us what she’s taken responsibility for
her pregnancy?
finishing school?
trying to better herself to be able to care for her daughter and herself?
striving to be a good role model for her baby girl?
c’mon give us 1, just 1 and be honest about it
will this post stay or is it too anti-casey in your opinion? when all i want is an honest answer
I’m having a little trouble following you, Cecelia. Are you suggesting she called Maya D daddy because she has a tattoo on her neck that says “Daddy”? And how is “days”, in this statement, “Maybe days will answer this here since he’s avoiding elsewhere?”
All I can say to the rest of your comment is that we don’t yet know if Caylee is Casey’s victim or not. We can’t know that until all the evidence is presented and weighed. As for what she has taken responsibility for, I would have to say, yes, she took responsibility for her pregnancy. She could have aborted or given her up, even abandoned her at birth, but she didn’t. She took care of her child, even if she didn’t have gainful employment. If she did have gainful employement, someone else would have been taking care of Caylee for over 1/3 of every day. Remember, motherhood is the the most important job in the world but it is unpaid. Being a woman, I would think you could appreciate the importance of caring for an infant or small child. Do you have children? Did you take care of them yourself? Who supplied your food and that of your child? Casey could have asked the taxpayer for their sustenance but didn’t. She could have had food and housing help.
Have a great day, Cecelia.
Someone above wondered if the prosecutors had ever offered Casey a plea deal. I believe they have, off the record. Casey submitted to the court a sworn affidavit in her own words in which she stated the prosecutors are “angry because I have refused to take a plea agreement for a crime that I DID NOT commit.” She could have been charged with perjury if this statement were untrue, and we know the SA wouldn’t have hesitated to do so if he could have.
Zuben..When I tell Cays how much I love her, I’ve always ended it with “forever and always”. I still do to this day. I talk to her throughout the day, as I do Daddy, and it brings a sense of peace to my heart. Thinking about it brings tears to my eyes and a smile to my face. I am an emotional wreck.
I reviewed a few letters last evening..morning LOL I read that as well..My first thoughts were..
she was referring to Caylee’s daddy. Someone passed on. I have no information as to GA not being her biological father and she has a deceased daddy. I do not think she is referring
to GA..nor do I think she is referring to God as she talks about God often and uses GOD not daddy.
Sorry you could not use the link I posted..I just tried it..it worked for me. I came across that video a long time ago. I had posted it here before. There are others yes where the photographer is silent. I have watched them..and there are a few more that leaves questions
in my mind. There are many with sound as well. I am not convinced that Casey was the camera operator in this..JMO
Zuben’s comment: January 16, 2011 at 9:29 am
Great comment Zuben..I agree!
et al, Hi..Yes, I posted the information to that affadavit at 5am this morning.
One of those nights I just couldn’t get past this case LOL
SNIP:
I believe that Mr Ashton is angry because I have refused to take a plea agreement for
a crime that I DID NOT COMMIT.
http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0310/18900892.pdf
Zunben ——- as usual — you have said it!
woops ———ZUBEN!
Do you have children?
Yes
Did you take care of them yourself?
Yes
Who supplied your food and that of your child?
Myself through finishing my education and working i had a good network of friends that i didn’t LIE to so they didn’t feel as if they were used, and paid my own way
Casey could have asked the taxpayer for their sustenance but didn’t.
She could have had food and housing help.
had she been working she would have been eligible for all kinds of programs especially education assistance instead of LYING about furthering her education and trying to STEAl future.
It’s quite obvious that all 4 of you are more interested in making excuses for a sociopath than you are in justice for a little girl, murdered and never reprted gone by her mother
third in priority for a grandmother more worried about a stolen car and money
casey never accepted any personal responsibility, she was very much a conditional love type parent. as long as she didn’t have to do any more than put up an appearance she could handle it. she doesn’t like people expecting things of her.
i suspect you are of the same caliber.
Don’t bother responding i won’t be back. I’ve not read a single thing in here that would ever make anyone have a reasonable doubt.
The
duhfensesdefenses case has spun all over, and clear off of the page.———————-
cecilia,
Your comment is welcome here, I scratched out what I find to be a personal insult to Jose Baez. I just want to nip it in the bud right now to avoid others from showing up here to do the same.
TIA,
JB
Good point, Et al. I had forgotten about that statement. Thank you.
Snoop, you may be right. I’m not firm in my opinion in that area at all. So are you thinking that Casey thought Caylee had passed on October 21? I thought I got hints that she still hoped she’d be found, still alive but I don’t have a quote or reference handy.
Cecelia, no need for personal insults. If you worked away from home, leaving the care of your child to a friend, you were not doing the caregiving, they were, for as many hours as you were away each day. Bringing home the paycheck is only half of what a child needs and if the only available parent is doing that, the child doesn’t have the parent and best caregiver possible, available to them. Some times, with some parents, the child is better off with someone other than the mother but I’ve seen nothing to lead me to believe Casey didn’t take care of her. She looks happy, clean and well balanced in her photos and videos. She has no medical history of abuse or neglect, only one doctor visit ever necessary. You seem very willing to ingore that and seem to think that a college education and job other than taking care of a child is more important that the care of the child. I don’t agree except in cases where the mother doesn’t want to mother. I see lots of mothering caught on camera.
I think the defense should bring the infamous “snothead” comment to light.
The IMs with Tony R prove that Casey did not want a future with someone that would not love Caylee.
Casey called Caylee a snothead being sarcastic because thats what Tony R thought of her.
Casey made excuse after excuse blowing him off, why? Well she stated “you know what my priorities are”. ( meaning Caylee )
IMO Tony R is a hell of alot better looking than Tony L and he already had a good paying job and not to mention the As would have loved him, GA being former LE and all.
Are we supposed to believe Casey killed Caylee to live happily ever after with Tony L. a college student with a part time job that loves Caylee,
and all that planning of offing her baby she never once thought Tony might start wondering where the hell her daughter is?
Very good point, Indygal. I didn’t get the impression that Tony loved Caylee though. His communications seemed more bent on getting her over there without Caylee and into the sack.
ZubenEISchemali wrote: “If you worked away from home, leaving the care of your child to a friend, you were not doing the caregiving, they were, for as many hours as you were away each day.” I guess I missed it–where was Casey working?
hi Lisa,
Are you the same Lisa who c&p-ed my comment to the Orlando Sentinel blog? If so thanks. What a brave soul you are! lol
As for your comment here today, you’re asking where Casey worked. It’s my understanding and personal opinion that Casey did work somewhere. I know you’ll probably disagree, but on that premise, that she was working which I believe is what Zuben was referring. It’s Zuben’s belief that Casey being a person who took care of her child as opposed to leaving her with outsiders or strangers was not a bad thing. I can understand that as well.
If given the choice of staying at home with my child as opposed to leaving he/she with a babysitter, I think it’s a no-brainer if given a choice. No one can replace a Mother’s love and nurturing, in my opinion.
I think that was Zuben’s point.
As far as I can see, no one has been able to find out where Casey was supposedly working while being a caretaker of Caylee.
Thanks, JB. Actually, Lisa, I was answering Cecelia’s answer to my question, her saying yes, she worked away from home, leaving her child with friends. There is nothing wrong with that, if that is what needs to be done but, as JB said, nothing can replace the loving care of the mother, if that is possible. As far as I’m concerned that is worth 2 or more jobs, especially since mom is on call 24/7. I know society doesn’t value motherhood much these days and unfotunately, I think is mirrored through our children too. Children are angry these days.
I apologize ZubenElSchemali. I thought you were saying that Casey was employed, which, of course, we know she wasn’t and therefore had no means of supporting Caylee herself.
No problem, Lisa but I tend to agree with JB that Casey may have been doing something under the radar. I just haven’t seen enough money coming from Cindy to account for all her gas, phone bills, etc. She had to get money from some place when she treated Tony to luch and she hand’t stolen the checks yet.
Zuben, Good comments! Yeah, I am not firm either. That was my first thought. I
was confused by it though. I didn’t think KC thought she was deceased..but she was
missing from her life at that time. I was assuming when she said “I talk to her throughout the day, as I do Daddy” that daddy was someone also missing from her life..as well as associated it with Caylee’s name. I really didn’t think of GA or GOD.
But who knows for sure?
Does anyone know about LA long term illness he had?
Hi, I’m trying to follow along the discussion today and I keep getting side tracked.
I see the question of what KC meant by the term “Daddy” in the jailhouse letters??
IIRC, it was a reference to God. It seems that’s a jailhouse term referencing to the “Father” as in God Almighty. They call him Daddy. It was hard making sense of the letters as I recall.
Snoop, this is the first time I’m hearing that Lee was sick as a child?? Was that in the jail house letters too?
Hi,
If I recall correctly, I believe Casey was referencing God the Father as “Daddy” because she had read the book “The Shack”. In the book, a character refers to God as “Daddy”. It may also be a jailhouse term, as well, as you mentioned above.
As far as Lee’s illness, I believe he had a severe reaction to the acne medication Accutane that resulted in his being home for a period of high school (don’t know what months or year he was in school).
I see no problem with Kc not working. Her parents were providing food and housing, but not a lot of support otherwise. Kc learned to lie from her own parents in my opinion. They were fine with the lies, and could not handle the truth. If one were to sit down with paper and pencil and do the math, how could a single mother possibly raise a child without help?
I think CA was very controlling. Its either work or go to school, but only when I am willing to watch Caylee. Kc probably got frustrated with the scheduling, and just started lieing.,
Lets keep in mind that Kc was a child herself and had never lived out on her own or paid an electric bill. CA could have at least given it 5 years until Caylee was in school. She had the means, she just didn’t have the patience. Let both of them grow up a little. Many people make this first 5 year sacrifice. All Ca would have really had to do is watch Caylee at night once in awhile, but her controlling nature may have gotten the best of her. She wanted Kc to either be home with Caylee or at work somewhere at all times…. Not realistic, even young people have to relax once in awhile.
I know, I continue to rip on CA even though I know none of this is her fault, I am addressing the bloggers that think it is so easy to raise a child when your single.
Ca is from the old school. I am sure she had support from family or someone while she was raising Kc and La. Especially from age 0 to 5. I talk to many people that take the support network for granted. When there is no family, what are you going to do? Daycare is not cheap either. What do people think an event coordinator makes?
Problem that I have is, that this family had the network to make this work. Ego’s get in the way, pride gets in the way, worry gets in the way. I think Kc would have gone to work even before Caylee turned 5. She needed to get out and learn and grow. Ca would not allow it. She needed to mature, but CA wanted that to all happen from the house. I think it is an natural phenomenon for a young person to want to get out and about. Its an natural drive, it is not driven by mom’s idea of how things should be, it is a drive from the soul. It is how we mature. This is why that really is too young to have a child without complete unconditional support from family.
I would just like to say and I know it is not popular, but I think CA and GA did the best they know how, but they could have done so much better. Patience would have helped a lot. Full support would have helped. They had the means.
If all that unconditional love was in place to support the first 5 years, then she wouldn’t need an nanny. I think getting CA or GA to watch Caylee was more difficult than many think. Sorry just ramblin on. MOO
notthatsmart,
that was no ramble,
EXCELENT post !!
& I totally agree.
Sarah, Thank you. I’m vaguely remembering something connecting the name, Daddy to God somewhere in her letts, which is way I asked that. I wasn’t recalling Lee’s illness clearly either. Thanks for the info. Another one of those meds that have worse side affects than what they are supposed to cure, I guess. It would have been less painful for the doctor to write a Rx to be excused from school until the acne stage passed.
Do all of you remember that report of a string sticking out of the ground, down the road past the school? It was labeled a sex crime on the Police report. I’ve always thought that report was so strange. Anyway, it looks like the defense took notice too. The finders are on the defense witness list. The state did depos and are among the items not released to the public so far. I’d love to see a list of all that hasn’t been given to the media and have an explanation as to why not. https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1SJuT6ZnZa_DMbH7rK5QXMFWMCG9xV7KVoIjLLRZfg_E&hl=en# People at WS put this together.
One name caught my eye because of the melodious feel to it and sure enough, he is not only a professor of law, but speaks publicly and has made his tv debut. Birdsong appears to be a specialist in the field of politics and the law. http://www.incrediblespeakers.com/speakers.php?command=display&no=193
Topics:
The power of influence
What happens when you “THINK” you have lost everything?
Where’s your next opportunity?
How to be a diplomat
The conspiracy theory
A depo was conducted with Gail St. Johns on Nov. 22. It appears the bodyhunters had to be tracked down, incorrect addresses. There are inmates on the list I haven’t seen before, Kathleen Clark and Brenda Wynn.
Hi everyone just reading the comments. I do not think Casey was working anywhere otherwise would not someone know about it. Surely she would not be embarrassed about a job and someone would have to watch Caylee. I do not think she worked and the reason I say this is most jobs will not let you text on the phone all day, also if she was working would she not say in her text that she would be dropping the baby off to someone. Casey like most young people live thru their phone and I think some reference would be made to someone she worked with or to the sitter just does not make sense she text ed everyone, no sitter, no co-worker etc. Where are these co-workers and why have they not come forward and say hey I know this girl I worked with her. JMO
By the way NTS excellent post on family think you hit it right on.
One more time —- the crux of this tragety …DRUGS …. need I ‘splain more? Just one thing…. someone having $$$ to buy and spend without a job…… a verifiable job. Vicious endings happen ……. and they very well may have.
I could see drugs maybe but according to what I have read she was not much into the drug scene also more evidence again in the text should show some involvement in this. Drug dealers and pushers use throw-away phones and does not show anywhere she had one of these, she never says anything about drugs and her friends seem to be more into a little pot and maybe some Xanax. Just cannot figure this out looks like she took a lot of money from Cindy it would not take much to have money for food, gas and just everyday running around. A lot of people live on very low incomes with families to raise.
Diane —- not necessarily using …… you would be surprised, amazed and disheartened to know who may be involved with high level drug dealing.
————— and, it’s such a COVERT LIFE … we may not have learned about it yet.
Hazaska is right, Diane. The successful sellers are not users. They would keep it a secret from those close to them. There are too many comments throughout her texts, referring to work to consider it all being lies. Now, if I’d seen enough money going from Cindy to Casey to account for everything she spent, I’d think otherwise but I don’t see that being the case. I’ve wonder if she was a lady of the night, planning personal events for clients staying at one of the hotels very near her home. There are quite a few that would ping as if she were still at home.
Back to that string buried in the woods behind the school…Not only did the paperwork say it was a sex crime, the officer told the reporters/witnesses that it was a bomb. Have you even heard anything so weird?
IIRC The computer showed that someone had logged onto alt.com. That and the fact that the police had brought up something about pictures to GA. Hopefully it was just some kind of an ad and not something she was involved in. Zub, can you elaborate on this string? How can an string being associated with an bomb have anything to do with an sex crime? What kind of string was it?
I am sorry to repeat this, but it has to do with that day the 16th. If Jt actually saw Kc and Caylee at the Cassleberry Walmart that afternoon of the 16th, then something may have happened in Cassleberry that day. She was there the week before looking for an flat screen monitor according to JT. Evidently she was spending time in that area for something. She asked Jt if he would take a check. What check did she plan on using? What does she need an flat screen monitor for? The state put Jt on their witness list. They must think he is credible. Is it possible that she went to cassleberry without her cell phone and when she came back had a sleu of voice mails to answer? Intresting point is that What GA described that she was wearing, vs what Jt described what she was wearing, vs what the blockbuster video showed what she was wearing. What did she change clothes 3 times that day? What is an black jack phone? Is it an prepaid phone like a tracphone?
There are so many unanswered questions about that day, it makes sense that Kc likely has an compelling reason for her actions. I really do think someone else is involved in this somehow. I think the police know a lot more than they are turning over and they just don’t believe any of it.
I am going to start going over that day again and going over the crime scene in detail. The news has been a lot about things that have nothing to do with the inccident lately. We are getting closer to trial and those first few days need to be gone over in detail now that most of the discovery is out. The phone records should show us if it is possible that she left her phone at home for awhile that day. MOO
Hi NTS,
Good comments. I wish I were able to answer all of your questions. Zuben may know more about the string that was sticking out of the ground.
The Black Jack phone isn’t a prepaid. It WAS a short lived model but IIRC it was promoted as a specialty phone of some kind similar to Blackberry when they 1st came out.
You made a really good point about the clothes KC was wearing on the 16th now that I think about it. Interesting. Let us know what you find.
Oh yes, I agree…not much evidentiary news now. It’s all about the young blood Baez and his mentor Mason. (not a bad one at that) When I think about him…Didn’t Judge Mathis start with a GED, later went to law school and then became a judge? I’d like to know what Judge Mathis thinks of Baez.
As far as I see, the only thing he’s guilty of is being inexperienced. It’s not his fault KC hired him. He’s made one really good move and that was to keep KC silent. I’m happy he didn’t allow KC to have visitors at jail either. He knew it would just be more fodder for the media and blogs to disect and speculate. So IMO, he’s not doing a bad job and at least he hasn’t totally muffed this case and it’s not over yet..she may be acquitted.
RH is skeptical that these witnesses are local and could have come forward a long time ago. I need remind RH, that JJ did come forward on Dec 13 2008 by writing an email to Yuri, and they did not follow up on it until late Sept last year. I am sure many have come forward in one way or another, does not mean that Yuri and John are going to follow up. IMO
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2011/01/casey-anthony-what-will-new-defense-witnesses-say-now.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+entertainment%2Ftv%2Ftvguy+%28TV+Guy%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
NTS, the incident report and statements referring to the rope sticking out of the ground begin on page 3037. It is in the pdf that has Jordon’s first emails and the Dakota emails. I downloaded it 1/7/09. They found what looked like a new grave. Stewart Odham Hendricks wrote the first staement, 9/12/08 but was first there on 9/11. Kyle Edward Kyger wrote the 2nd statement. Both say suspicious incident. He saw a rope wrapped around a stick sticking out of the ground where there was a tire track. They dug and found another rope tied around that one. They tried to dig to the bottom but it got dark. They came back and called LE. Both write that they didn’t call media. Interesting addition? Patrick Paul King, Thomas Berning and Joseph Newark wrote the same thing. Pg 3044 has the page that says Cpl Tittle took the report and the sex crimes box is checked. Yuri Melich wrote his name at the top. I can’t remember where I read the part about a bomb. I believe it is in the police report. The actual police report isn’t in this doc either. It’s somewhere else and I can’t remember where. If you run across it, let me know the page number so I can mark it.
I could be wrong, but I spent some time with Casey’s pings back when he first came out and don’t see how she had time to go to the Cassleberry Walmart that day. I personally didn’t find him very believable either. No man waits a year to come forward and then focuses details of what a bad mother she was, where Caylee was, etc. If it was so horrible and he was so sure of all these details he wouldn’t wait that long to come forward. Time clouds the memory, not the opposite.
I did a little searching. Carlos A Chirino lived in St. Augustine and registered PROFESSIONAL INVESTIGATION RESOURCES CORPORATION, 1/25/06. It must have went inactive because he reinstated it on 5/3/08. He and Guillermo Medino are listed with the same address. There are other businesses with the same first name, middle intitial, some in Miami. Both were added to the defense witness list they filed on Aug. 29, 10 and were scheduled to be deposed by the state Oct. 20. Did those depos take place? I read somewhere they are in Mexico.
jb — YES, Judge Mathis was in jail (maybe more than once) — was a HS dropout …got his GED — went to college, then law school and wound up a judge — great story.
What a surprise. The comments are in the opposite order, decending time instead of ascending. I’m waiting on a client for info regarding a mix up or reversal of am and pm too so I guess this is the time to look at things backwards.
It’s already been mentioned that NeJames is representing the former Windemere sheriff that covered for his friend, stopping the investigation. Mason, with Witney Boan, is representing the friend, Scott Bush. Now I want to know more of the details because apparantly the allegation in 2003 was from a girl under 12 and the 2009 accusation was by an 18 year old that said something happened years earlier, according to the article. This may be the same girl on both counts. If nearly 11 at the time of the 2003 accusation, adding 6 years puts her around 18. Perhaps there is more to this story than meets the eye? I hope Mason doesn’t take on so much he can’t give his all to the Anthony case but, he has to make a living too.
lol
I really need a doc dump.
I’m so glad I was finally able to find your comment because I couldn’t figure out what happened either..Sorry.
Z, good point on the Windemere case. I wonder what all of the Nejame-lovers think of him now that he’s representing an alledged corrupt Sheriff.
I’m expecting more to this case too. Good question, is this the same girl? hmm..
To add more, Cheney Mason is now representing Scott Bush, the person the Sheriff alledgedly covered up for.
http://www.wesh.com/news/26526679/detail.html
I wonder if Snoop knows any of these people since they are local. The original list of 30 provided by MN seems to keep growing.
Post 585
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75385&page=24
NTS,
Thanks for the link to WS. I noticed a list of TES searchers pending deposition for the State. Do you know where I can find this list either in document dump or news source. I’ve searched to no avail…TIA
Hi, I just can’t leave Cindy unprotected! lol! Personally, imoo, she has been a good mother! She, iirc, was the ‘sole’ money maker in the family. It appears to me, that problems escalated, after George came back home. She has stood behind her daughter 100%. I think that she is the ‘sole’ reason that Casey was such a loving mom to Caylee; because she was working hard to provide Casey with the tools to care for Caylee. To quote a song lyric from Rod Stewart; ‘every picture tells a story, don’t it’. Cindy provided Casey with a car, roof over her head, clothing, food etc. She also provided for her husband, who to me, took full advantage of his wife! Cindy was working full time as a nurse,- and going through ‘menopause’ ! She had to give up her ‘retirement money’ because George was ‘blowing it away’ on ‘internet gambling.’ Casey was a single mom living at home with her mom and then her ‘absentee’ father moved back in after living away from home for a long period of time. Cindy did not like Jesse Grund because he was being ‘disrespectful in Cindys’ home. Throughout this whole ‘nightmare’; Cindy has, and is, standing behind her daughter. No one is ‘perfect’ when something catascropic invades their personal space-and to me-this is an ongoing nightmare that Cindy is living- her precious granddaughter and her beloved daughter have been literally ‘yanked’ from her arms. Her husband is weak; and, her daughters ‘friends’ are now her daughters worst ‘enemies’! Every ‘picture’ of Cindy with her grandaughter and with her daughter show me a loving and caring mother, as do, every picture of Casey with her daughter. Cindy is a good daughter in how protective she has been towards her mother and father during this ‘nightmare’. In my personal thoughts; someone took advantage of Casey; with her problem of ‘recall’ I wonder if Casey may have been given GHB the last day she had Caylee in her possession.- I also wonder if the night she had the ‘seizure’- when with Jesse; if perhaps he may have placed her into a ‘choke hold’ since he was going through ‘police training. just moo
Hi Strikedlightening,
I thoroughly enjoyed reading your comment. I have to agree, Cindy should be protected. Who’s protecting Cindy, the good Mom. Where is her protector in all of this? I feel the same as you in some ways that George was more of a hinderance than a help in their household.
He had a choice and he took it. He went to the Grand Jury and chose to have his daughter indicted because popular opinion told him so. He didn’t weigh in that there was a possibility that Casey was innocent. There’s no sense of loyalty with George. He’s what I call a “Good Time Charlie”. He probably ran when Casey showed up pregnant and came back to enjoy his beautiful grand daughter Caylee. He enjoyed his nice home, his attractive wife who supported him when he chose not to work but when the shit hits the fan he runs for cover. He doesn’t protect his wife Cindy in her time of need. You can tell during TV interviews, he’s not in full support of Casey or Cindy.
That’s what I think about George and he just may have taken $4000 from River Cruz. For him, it’s where ever his bread is getting buttered. whew..
Well..that was my George rant. lol..In any case, I believe you are right. Cindy is a good mother and I hope one day she’s has peace. She deserves it.
“He went to the Grand Jury and chose to have his daughter indicted because popular opinion told him so.” Are you thinking George did or didn’t lie to the grand jury? I don’t think he had a choice about appearing before the grand jury. He was subpoenaed.
Thank you Lisa, I knew that statement would get me in trouble but it matters not to me if he was supoenaed or not, he’s not supportive of his family as much as he boasts. This is just my opinion of course. And yes, you’re right he was supoenaed, he had no choice. It’s just the rest of his choices that aren’t very honorable to me. Thanks again for your comment.
I have to disagree with the opinion that George didn’t contribute. The docs show he worked. He took the position he had when Casey was arrested while still having another position. I’m sure there were times he was between jobs, was laid off, also according to the docs but I don’t see him as a man that refused to work and help support the family. His body didn’t allow him to continue in law enforcement. He tried to be a salesman and it didn’t work out, probably not his thing. If he struck out on his own motivated by anger and retaliation he was doomed to fail. Many people have a dud in their career history though. Now, whether he spent more than his share is another story and something I can only judge by what Cindy’s mom said. But I’m sure there is a reason Cindy’s bank account didn’t have George’s name on it. She may be the better one to handle the money.
George didn’t have any choice but to tell what he thought to be the truth before the grand jury. I’m sure he felt so horrible about that, he ended up in a hotel wanting not to live. While watching George being interviewed, I got the impression he wanted to be accepted by them, be one of the guys. Remember them telling him they had some horrible pictures? Where are those pictures that were so horrible? They made it sound like she was involved in internet porn, probably to shame him so he’d disconnect from her emotionally and tell them everything they wanted to hear.
That whole family has been through hell and back. Perhaps if they could have stayed away from the media it would have been easier but it makes sense to take advantage of the media as long as they thought they could help by doing that. While they still believed Caylee was alive (I’m sure they did) they needed the media to keep her face and name out there. After they were forced to give that up they wanted to be a voice for Casey and that makes sense to me, as a parent. When you see the media reporting things that aren’t true you want the truth to be told. They saw the discrepancies in the docs too. They know Casey like no one else does. It is survival instinct that motivated them.
I’m not saying this family is without fault or without skeletons in their closet. But, is there anyone out there without blemish? I’m sure they are paying for any wrongs they have done, many times over, just with this whole process they are being put through. If there is any thing they’ve done that requires further punishment, I’m sure LE would love to jump on it.
JB —- hum……….. I tend to agree with Zuben’s assesment of George…..