On December 24th WFTV reported that Casey Anthony’s defense team had missed their deadline to pursue Roy Kronk the Lone Hero who found Caylee Anthony’s remains as a possible suspect.
It’s been reported that because Jose Baez failed to meet the deadline, Roy Kronk is a free man or so surmised WFTV-Channel 9 in speculating that Anthony’s attorneys have dropped plans to suggest that Roy Kronk is a suspect in the murder of Caylee Anthony.
Fact or fiction? Perhaps by the next hearing on January 3, 2011 we’ll have this information coming straight from Mr. Baez himself. As an interested blogger participating in the Casey Anthony saga, I have minimal control in judicial matters of this case or at least I would hope but MAYBE not.
Judge Strickland was recused from this case for fraternizing with Marinade Dave (a obsequious blogger who was awarded The Orbbie from the Orlando Sentinel) and now State Prosecutor Jeff Ashton has referred to bloggers in his recent motion to Judge Perry. Bloggers have suddenly become part of the vocabulary used not only in judicial motions but verbally mentioned in a Court of Law involving the accused mother of the victim Casey Anthony who is standing in court literally fighting for her life.
I, JBMission, only have an opinion when it comes to Roy Kronk and what makes him a viable suspect or participant in Caylee Anthony’s murder or cover-up.
In my opinion, if the OCSO didn’t have Casey Anthony’s mistruths and deceptions on record, without a doubt the State Attorney’s Office would have picked Roy Kronk’s story apart from the day he officially found Caylee on December 11, 2008 retracing his steps to his first 911 call on August 11, 2008 and likely would have made him a strong Person of Interest considering these several factors.
Factor #1. Roy Kronk was arrested and charged with kidnapping in May 1992. Auspiciously, Beaufort County, SC did not believe his captive/accuser and dismissed charges. Roy Kronk later had this charge expunged from his record for the sake of his career in the Coast Guard.
Although the woman who accused him of kidnapping her is now deceased there are family members and an ex-husband who are more than willing to testify in her behalf IF need be.
Roy Kronk’s own father said that Roy Kronk rented a car and brought handcuffs, duct tape and a plastic gun to Beaufort, SC to force her to come back with him to Key West.
Kronk’s determination drove him over a thousand miles to Beaufort County, SC to kidnap XX. Fortunately, her fiancee came home on leave just in time to save her from Roy Kronk. Her fiancee, a Marine had the distinct pleasure of beating the shit out of Kronk.
Factor #2. Here’s ANOTHER person who tells a similar story about Roy Kronk’s propensity to abuse and take women against their will. Jill Kerley. She is his ex-wife who said in a recorded video that Roy Kronk had beat her on several occasions and used “100 mph duct tape” around her hands to keep her from calling for help. While in Maryville, he packed a bag put it in the car and told her they were going to the store and instead took her to Maryland where his father lived. There she was beat in front of Roy Kronk’s father so badly that she needed to go to the hospital.” She claims RK was capable of murder and she thought he tried to kill her by putting something in a glass of wine which she drank and later passed out for no apparent reason except for the tainted wine.
When Baez asked Jill Kerley what she thought when she heard that Kronk was the person who found Caylee’s remains, her first thought was “he did it. He murdered Caylee or had something to do with it.”
It was interesting to learn that RK was fanatically obsessed with the fantasy video game “Dungeons and Dragons”. When asked by the investigator if Kronk can be believed, JK said, “He wouldn’t know the truth if it was slapped upside his head.”
Jill Kerley interview
Factor #3. Eleven years ago, in a 1997 report from Kingsport, Tennessee, Kronk called in a tip to investigators that they would find several stolen guns and other items in a wooded field but when officers searched the field they were unable to find any of the items Kronk had reported.
Incidentally, Jill Kerley lived only 2 hours from Kingsport, Tennessee. After reading this report, I think this validates Jill Kerley’s fear that Kronk was still intending to cause her harm. Jill Kerley told Jose Baez she had no idea that he was that close to her in 1997.
Considering this story is eerily similar to what Kronk did in Orlando, Florida, I can see where the Defense team or anyone would raise an eyebrow.
Find firearms report here:
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/24443621/detail.html
Factor #4. Crystal Sparks, another ex-wife of Roy Kronk, who is not disgruntled in any way had lots to say about Roy Kronk. She said Roy’s father called her with the news that Roy was in jail on kidnapping and elaborated RK rented a car and brought handcuffs, duct tape and a plastic toy gun to retrieve his girlfriend who had fled back to Beaufort, South Carolina. Crystal Sparks has no reason to make this up.
CS spoke of Roy Kronk’s estranged family and particularly about his sister Susan. Susan was not a big fan of Roy’s. Susan also had deep concerns with her 2-3 year old daughter Jessica’s closeness to Roy. At a family gathering at Crystal’s home, she recalls Susan was adamant that Jessica not sit on Roy’s lap. For this reason Crystal had concerns about Roy being around young girls too.
It’s in this interview that Crystal opens the door to a phone call Roy made to their son Brandon Sparks. She recalls Brandon telling her about Roy calling Brandon in mid-November, approximately 2 weeks before Thanksgiving 2008 telling him, “you’re going to see me in the news. I’m gonna be a hero. I know where the little girl Caylee is and I’m going to get her,” he adds, “when the water went down.” According to Crystal Sparks, Susan had heard through her obsequious brother Roy that he had found the “little girl’s” body in middle November too. Crystal elaborated more on Roy’s obsession with Dungeon’s and Dragons, saying he likes anything in the fantasy realm and he lies a lot.
Crystal Sparks interview
Factor #5
Here’s a guy who finds Caylee’s remains in August, calls LE on 3 different occasions and they can’t find Caylee’s remains while standing there with Kronk pointing to it. That doesn’t seem likely.
Factor #5 is the most valuable for the Defense. If the Defense believes in LE, doesn’t that seem odd that someone would find her in August and NOT in September, October or November?
I don’t think Baez has much of a choice when it comes to Roy Kronk.
WISHING EVERYONE A VERY HAPPY & PROPEROUS NEW YEAR!!
FINALLY 2011 IS HERE!
from theJBMission
Oh JB — thank you for re presenting these important items. One thing I didn’t know, was the RK event in 1992! Hum!
Thanks, JB. The dates of these occurrences hadn’t stuck in my mind. Correct me if I am mistaken, but from what I remember hearing Baez say, I didn’t get the impression he was accusing Kronk of killing Caylee. I thought he said that there was enough about him and the strange not finding Caylee in August, that he should have been considered a person of interest, even more so than Casey and should have at least been investigated. I got the impression his goal here was to show that LE ignored any other important evidence or facts because they were narrowly focused on his client, rather than doing their full and proper duty. I’ve noticed blog chants-rants going on to encourage Kronk to sue him for defamation of character like ZG is doing to Casey, which I highly doubt any judge will hear it. But then again, I’m shocked they let ZG through the door of the court house since Casey clearly said she wasn’t who she was referring to. Nothing should surprise me anymore in this case.
Kronk may be nothing more than a curious party wanting to cash in on the money, acting on a hunch, first hunch wrong, 2nd right. But he still needs to be thoroughly investigated, with his colorful history and his strange discrepencies between August and December. If he had the wrong bag in August then he should admit that but he hasn’t. He hasn’t attempted to explain, nor is LE interested enough to ask, why the difference in stories. That right there discredits him in my opinion. The bag changed and a white skull in August changes to a skull in a bag in December. Who rebagged her? They don’t even ask.
JB, It may still be possible to bring issues about Kronk thru other testimony just as explained about Tim Miller and claims that he made. I thought in the beginning that it was possible for Kronk to be a suspect because he was the one to find Caylee and the circumstances surrounding the find. As time went on there was never enough but inuendo and what I consider bad testimony from ex-wives. I think it made media fodder when nothing else was going on in the case. I am starting to think that Baez had to have found something else to stop going after Kronk. Baez had every opportunity to file plus 2 years. Perry going on vacation has nothing to do with the filing.
To Kronk or Not to Kronk might be a little border line. You have to consider the prep Ashton had to go thru in the event Baez would have filed. I believe now that there was not enough substance that would play out in court or Ashton would have had great concern.
I’m sure we have not heard the end of this yet.
Zuben — you articulated precisely what I was thinking. Too many oddities re: Kronk …… and Baez never “accused” him ….. did intimate that he should have been considered a “person of interest” who may have relevant information. And THIS ZG and her publicity hound attorney’s should have been thrown out of court once it was stated …that “she was NOT the person” about whom they were referring.. Cindy said it multiples times….
Hazaka, I would agree with you about ZG only if KC and Cindy would have declared that thru the media but they never did. The info was available very early on in the case and for what reason they kept it alive only they can answer. They knew in the first week that the ZG in question was not the right person but Cindy did not tell anyone until her deposition April 9, 2009. I don’t put a lot of stock in this case but it was almost 9 months before it was rectified. I think the amount of time that transpired is what keeps this case going. The Anthony family perpetuated many stories without any help. It would have been better if they would have stayed quiet. Even Baez quit talking about Zanny very early on.
I took a breath and a step back to try and imagine if I were accused of something where my name was plastered in the media and all over the net along with pictures. I honestly don’t know what that woman went thru but I do know I would have been very upset.
D, the very first discovery release contained Casey’s statement that the Bebo ZG was not anyone she recognized and was not who she left Caylee with. That should have been the end if it, right there. Cindy never met her so I don’t see what relevance any statement from her would have, other than passing along what Casey told her, if in fact, they had a discussion about this specific person at any given time. I also don’t recall anyone asking her, until the depo, if the person suing Casey was the one she left Caylee with. If I missed something, please correct me.
Thanks Zuben… you beat me to it…. Cindy was told what “that’ ZG looked like and her approximate age …and repeated that long before the “case” …… I blame the ambulance chasing lawyers who took a not-so-bright woman under their wing.
JB, When and how did Roy Kronk get Caylee? Did Casey give Caylee to Kronk on day 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,…………………………….25,26,…….30, 31? Was it week one, two, three, four? Is Kronk a cross dresser, posing as a nanny? Did Kronk steal Casey’s car, have keys to the Anthony home? Maybe he has a Winny the Poo fetish? Please tell me. You are presenting a very slanted picture of the man. As soon as Jill Kirley opens her mouth the jurors would dismiss her as a mental patient.
9
Rob — I know you asked JB, and she will certainly reply …. but…. your question is nonsensical.
You’re welcome, Hazaka, but I’m sure you would have said it even better.
Rob, nice to meet you. I have to ask though, even though your question is directed to JB, are you trying to Rob JB or me of the point? I certainly am not implying that Casey A handed Caylee over to Kronk and I don’t think anyone else is either. If you have a reasonable explanation as to why his report changed from a silver metallic and gray bag to black, then the white skull went from outside the bag to inside, then rolling out, but not rolling out after all, but just being uncovered… then I will gladly listen and consider it. Whew, that was a mouthful. I think it is more disconcerting that his story changed so drastically, than the inconsistencies in Casey’s story. I can think of reasonable explanations for her change, but not his.
Rob, I’m afraid you’ve missed the point. The point being Baez had cause to look at Kronk. He’s not the most stellar guy. JK isn’t the only one. There’s the woman in Beaufort, SC who he tried to kidnap and bring her back to Key West. There’s Crystal Sparks who is as sane as you and I. Why is Roy Kronk telling his own son in November that he knows the whereabouts of Caylee’s remains? There’s his own sister doesn’t trust him..He’s not a nice dude. If not for KC, he would be second in line.
Baez had every right to pursue him. If he was an honest guy, he wouldn’t care.
Zuben, you are correct. Baez has never accused him but as you said, LE should’ve investigated Kronk but they did not. Actually, they did the opposite and coached Kronk through out his interview from the very start.
As for ZG’s lawsuit..I think Morgan was on a fishing expedition for the State. The questions he asked had nothing to do with ZG’s claim and everything to do with getting information from the Anthony’s soooo if that would be the case.
YES, I hope Kronk sues Baez! And I wish he’d do it today before May 11, 2011. I’d love to see how he holds up during deposition under oath. Interesting.
thejbmission
December 27, 2010 at 1:15 pm
——————————–Me too —- Kronk should sue …… now and until 5/11!!!
Wow, ladies, you’ll have me pitying poor Baez. As if he doesn’t have enough on his plate in the next 5 months you want to add this to his pro bono work???
Just like ZG, Kronk might stand a chance of getting a percentage of nothing if he won the suit. I agree, Morgan was on a fishing expidition for the state. I wonder if they paid him since he won’t be getting any cash from ZG or Casey. I think he likes those cameras though. Maybe that was enough for him.
Hi JB et all!!! appreciate this site! in regards to rk or anyone else. anything is possible. in thinking outside of ‘the box’ 5 cases brings me to this conclusion. the Riley Fox case-where an intruder hid in the house took the 3 year old, duct taped her mouth and hands and threw her off a bridge. the man who hid in the ceiling of a house unknown to the family who resided there, the Jon Benet case where another intruder snuck into the home while the family slept, the Elizabeth Smart case and the Scott Peterson case. In 4 of these cases the detective work was sloppy because the detectives chose to fixate on the family members and not at the ‘evidence’ or ‘lack of’ and leak mistruths to the media to initiate firestorms blocking any attempt to solve and bring to light what really occurred. Riley Foxs’ father was forced into a false confession, and was finally exonerated, when the family insisted on DNA found on the child be tested, and now- the true perpetrator because of this, is sentenced to life without parole (because of the cruelness that was done to that little girl-Scott Eby to me; should have received a more just punishment!) The Ramseys still have not received justice – a little too late for Jon Benets’ mom. Of all of these cases, Scott Petersons’ reminds me the most; in regards, to Casey Anthony- in that the parents were ‘grossly’ maligned in the press as was Casey and Scotts’ characters assassinated instead of any putting out any solid evidence. The most bothersome thing of these 2 cases is the prolonged hate issued by the media and those who feed on the hate. To find justice for Caylee the truth should be sought not gossip and inuendo. No ‘rock’ should be left unturned.
In reply to Robs question,
“Did Casey give Caylee to Kronk on day 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,…………………………….25,26,…….30, 31? Was it week one, two, three, four? Is Kronk a cross dresser, posing as a nanny? Did Kronk steal Casey’s car, have keys to the Anthony home? Maybe he has a Winny the Poo fetish?”
Casey says she dropped Caylee of with Zanny at Sawgrass appartments between 9-1 on June 16th 2008.
( I do know casey lies but I also know there is some truth in her lies)
I’ve always thought that whatever happened to Caylee happened between the hours of
9am and 1pm on June 16th 2008.
Casey is very percise on all details and events except this very important issue,
“the exact time she dropped Caylee off with the nanny”.
Which leads me to conclude that Casey only has an idea what time Caylee “went missing”.
Between 9am (the last time Casey saw Caylee) and 1pm (when Casey realized Caylee was missing).
So kronk or any pedophile ( and yes kronks relatives have insinuated Kronk could like little girls, including his x-stepchild that claims he told her he’d like to video tape her having sex with animals)
could have snatched Caylee out of her yard.
Caylee could have decided to take a swim and Casey found her floating in the pool, or Casey could have flipped out and killed Caylee.
My point is, regaurdless of what led to Caylees demise, Caseys reaction would have been the same,
“OMG, I can’t let mom know, so Casey leaves the house and her web of lies begin.
We all know Zanni (if real or not) has been alive in Caseys mind for years, not only her family, but RG and friends will verify it, so we all know Casey did not create the nanny so she could kill Caylee to live the bella vita which was very short lived and Casey knew her days were numbered, she was relieved when her mom finally found her and drug her home.
Casey would never nor will she ever admit that her negligence led to her babies death.
What disgusts me is the fact that the homicide detectives involved in this case KNOW that Casey did NOT commit not only 1st degree murder, but a murder at all.
Casey is now a victim of the system, and this is a far cry from justice for Caylee.
As far as Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez the “Nanny”
and Morgans client Zenaida Gonzale or Gonzalez
he had her sign he name Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez
when she indeed is not and never has had Fernandez associated with her name
I would think charges could be filed against Morgan and his client for say possibly forgery?
or obstruction in a dp case?
Just my thoughts, but one thing very clear to me is, It’s not Casey and her defense that’s wasting FL tax payers dollars, it’s the ones who don’t throw crap like this out, and permit anything damaging to Caseys defense, (no matter the cost) continue in court.
Indygal
———————–
Where have I seen you before? It’s been a while.
Hazaka,
It’s had to be on here, I only comment here under Indygal,
and I used to comment on Orlando Topix under Yadda Yadda Yadda but I got tired of the bashing and nonsense, then I came across this blog and loved how civil, mature. and knowledgeable you all are so I just follow along here and comment from time to time
I feel like I’ve been struck by lightening in the Indy 500. Some really good comments. Lightening, I only knew about a couple of those. Thanks for grouping them together that way. Yes, it is too little too late for Ms. Ramsey and her daughter. Indygal, so many times I’ve thought to myself, what must little Caylee think, if her mother is innocent. It must break her little heart to see her mother hated so much. I know that my mother was scorned by society when I was a little girl and it was just horrible. She is my mother and when others hate her they hate me, in essence. I’ve also thought the same thing about adding Fernandez to her name. It isn’t legal to just attach a name so you ca claim defamation. But know one hat brought that up so far and I find that strange. Casey’s attorney should be petitioning the court to have it thrown out if that isn’t her name. I’ve seen no evidence it is her legal name so, why hasn’t he?
Question does anyone know if RK took a poly? If not he should have been requested to do one since he found the body also wonder if DC or JH took one they were poking around where the body was before it was found. JMO I sure would not want to be in any of these peoples shoes and be accused of having something to do with killing a child. I have thought about this a lot and have even said to myself would I want to go on searches since I have seen what has happened in this case
Still trying to make sense out of dropping the RK prior bad acts motion. Why? If it goes hand in hand with investigating Tes Volunteers or anyone else that searched that spot. If they can find searchers that searched that spot and saw no body there, then it seems to me they would want to go after RK. I think they will easily impeach RK on the stand during cross. Perhaps they could resubmit the motion for prior bad acts if they had new information later. If their point was to prove that LE didn’t do their job and look elsewhere then I think they have made that point. The defense also has until Dec 31st to introduce Tes witnesses. I think we will see that witness update Friday. The defense appears to me to be very confident in what they are doing. JA SAO seems to be very nervous and angry. It sounds to me like the Defense may have one up on him. Like I always said, if things don’t make a lot of sense, then there is someone else in the picture. Just thinking outloud.
I am not sure that RK took a poly. Many bloggers claim that he did, but I have not seen any documentation showing that he did. Furthermore, many bloggers think that you pass or fail a poly, but I am not sure how it works. I am not sure you pass or fail per se . It may be a series of questions and compiled data. Does anyone know how a poly works? And also, since RK has a Lawyer, don’t most Lawyers advise against it?
NTS,
Are you a Judge Judy fan? I love it when she says “if it doesn’t make sense then it didn’t happen”..lol
diane,
That’s a good question. RK didn’t take a poly as far as I know. Neither has Dom Casey or Hoover. You said you would be leery to join a search team b/c of what’s taking place in the Anthony case. IMO, if RK had not admitted to finding Caylee in Aug 08 on the corner of “Suburban and Hopespring” Baez wouldn’t be interested in TES searchers. The only reason the Defense is interested in TES is because most people, (myself included) thought LE, TES, and other search parties had cleared this area. So of course when Kronk pops up and says he found Caylee in this area, he had no choice but to ask questions.
IMO, if Baez doesn’t investigate Kronk, Casey could easily get a new trial.
Hazaka,Geesh, that was a lot of typing for you..
Jb,
)
“Geesh, that was a lot of typing for you..”
( that wasn’t Hazaka, that was me
Check this out, On Aug.12th 2008 Melich himself said that area had been searched and cleared!!
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4768151/3976-4026_redacted_kronk_statement
Page 27-28
Melich says the area had been searched and “cleared” no need to follow up on kronks tip.
page 30
Littlewhite round object has been scribbled out with a pen ( look hard )
I can’t make since of this… Cain was fired for not searching yet he claims he did search..
at least Cain showed up…
Then we’ve got Melich saying don’t follow up on the tip, the area has been cleared,
and he’s not being questioned in the least.
The more I read the stranger things get ! !
———————-==========
Indy,
I’m so sorry. I scrolled back up to respond to the comment and I thought it was Hazaka’s. lol Which is out of the norm for her but not you. Sorry.
I’m going to check the link out now. Yes, very strange.
JB
Neither of those “interviews” are sworn depositions, lets see if those women sing the same song UNDER OATH. Jill didn’t divulge any of this “useful” information until they were “mort”ified by the defense, until then they had been singing praises to the heavens about Roy. coinkydink? or was jill promised “help” out of her own legal troubles? THAT will out too.
they better start thinking of a way to defend moty against her lies, between casey and cindy TRYING (unsuccessfully) to make someone else the SODDI, casey WILL have consequences (although a new concept for casey) for killing caylee and then tossing her where she hoped the elements and scavengers would take care of the forensic evidence.
cecelia
December 28, 2010 at 8:06 am
———————————
snipped: Jill didn’t divulge any of this “useful” information until they were “mort”ified by the defense, until then they had been singing praises to the heavens about Roy. coinkydink? or was jill promised “help” out of her own legal troubles? THAT will out too.
they better start thinking of a way to defend moty against her lies….”
Refresh my memory …. when did Jill or ANYONE who really knew him, sing praises about Kronk?
notthatsmart I do not feel the SOA is nervous do not understand where you get that from, IMO both sides are just doing the best job they can, after all that is just what it is, a job. I do not remember where I saw a video of one of RKs ex-wives but did sing his praises at first I think on u-tube but this was when he first found the body. I do not disagree about him being investigated I think any and all that had contact with Casey and or Caylee should be looked at. Maybe we will learn more when they release the depo of RKs stepson. Also wonder why the documents that the F.B.I. released to the defense has not been released. Maybe I missed that if so would someone direct me to where I could find them.
I think JA looks nervous based on his actions. He normally does not file sanction motions. In the sanction motion that he has filed, he ask for more information. He seems angry in the motion. It may be normal for an prosecutor at this stage to start demanding information. I do not know, I only know that this seems new to me to file for sanctions. In the hearing he is complaining that the defense is not fulfilling the judges ruling. He visually looks upset to me. This is how I came to the conclusion that he looks nervous. Of course I could be completely wrong and this could just be SOP.
JB on the otherhand, acts somewhat surprised. He seems confident that he did his job. He thinks it could have all been handled with a phone call. He also seems to be a little snarky about it. He plays dumb, but I don’t buy it. He has played dumb this whole pretrial period, but yet he tends to get what he wants. I personally think that JB is sandbagging and when the trial starts, he is going to stay in the background and let the pro’s do their job. Cm is a tough read. I know he has a lot of experience and I think he has a poker face.
I am glad someone brought up Rk’s exgirlfriend that had the daughter. That he would talk animal sex with her. I just wanted to add that IIRC she also stated that when her mother was dying of cancer, RK would sit and play video games on the computer, when she needed to be fed. MOO
How in the world did RK get in the Anthony’s house and get everything that was found with Cayle?????? OMG!! Only an idiot would think he was part of her murder!!!
Good mornin all. I agree they have already established LE boasts the area was cleared prior to Kronk’s calls. LE has proved their case for them that no one but Casey was their focus and they failed to clear Kronk or make sense of the two stories he gave not making any sense, other than the spot was the same in both August and December. Looking at the big picture, I think LE was most interested in making it appear that Caylee had been there for a long time so they manipulated Kronk during questioning to say the skull was in the bag and he uncovered it, rather than it rolled out. They don’t care to address it being white and exposed in August because that wouldn’t fit with what they actually had as evidence and no jury would buy that Cain couldn’t see a white skull but yet it was there all along. Plus they’d also have to address the silver metallic bag issue.
I have a strong feeling the defense can also establish where water was and was not, pretty much supporting the water report. They will show that through searchers’ testimony. They will also show there were other witnesses besides Cain that were in that woods, on that trail leading in but Caylee was not there. The question I have, if the defense has Kronk on the stand, is there anything stopping them from asking him about the duck tape and other issues? Do they have to get permission ahead of time to introduce prior bad acts or can they simply ask him if he’s ever used tape to restrain someone? When they are still in process of interviewing and collecting names of Tes an other searchers to meet the Dec. 31 deadline would it hold up in appeal, that Perry allows his vacation time to keep defense from doing their job? If they need to refile this motion once they are done with the searchers, I don’t see how Perry can refuse to hear it. He may want strict deadlines but as long as the state is still handing over discovery…They may not even need that motion with what they already have, Cain and the other people that were there, not seeing her in August. Also, what would stop them, when they have Melich or Allen on the stand, from asking if they investigated any of these allegations they were made aware of? If their goal is to prove that LE didn’t follow up properly on leads or suspicious people, LE has already proved their point, through their own discovery.
It isn’t their job to prove who killed Caylee, only to show their client didn’t or that LE hasn’t established she did. I think that Gale St. John’s video, Kronk & crew, Cain Hoover, D Casey, TES and other searchers’ testimony will establish Caylee wasn’t in that woods where she was found in August through November. If she wasn’t there then, Casey didn’t put her there, end of story, unless LE would like to establish that Casey killed her but someone else helped her by putting her there later.
You make a very good point that for the most part, Casey is quite succinct and detailed, which makes it strange that she was so broad with the time she left her with the nanny. It always struck me that this is the same time slot that TL had classes, 9-1 pm and lab during the am hours. But, if George and Casey were both awake and in the house during those hours, then he would have to be lying, if something happened to Caylee in the home or she were abducted during those hours. Many think he was lying and that she never left the home but she could have been anywhere within a couple of miles and her phone ping that way. So, was she home then or not? If George is lying, why would he unless she died during both their watch? If that were the case, there is also no way he could have placed her in that woods after July 15 either. Too many people were watching his every move. No one in the family was out of the spotlight during those months. No, I don’t see any way either of them were with Caylee when she died.
If the vague time frame was because she couldn’t get any more specific than that, I would think it has to be because she was abducted from her home or car during those hours and the lies are for Cindy’s sake. But, she wouldn’t still be holding on to that lie at this point in time. If she was being vague on purpose, it is because there is a clue during those hours. Of course, one clue I can think of is the creation of the ZG myspace and any communication that may have taken place as a result. We still haven’t seen the PMs or the deleted comments.
Diane, there are several releases that have never made it to the public. There was one time last year I kept watching for a release, another happened and that one was given to media. So I contacted one of the stations to ask where that specific doc dump was, why it hadn’t been posted and was told that the state never released it to them. There are are a few that I know of, that the state hasn’t given to the public. But they always have duplicates in everything they release so the money is still being made on copying, with a nice profit margin.
Hazaka, I believe there was a blog comment, maybe by C Sparks??? I’m not remembering clearly but it was when it was first revealed he found her, something praising him for finding her when no one else could. I thought so at first too, until I found out all the rest. Her comment wouldn’t cancel anything else she knows about him.
frodo
—————
Good morning …. no one ever said that Kronk got into the Anthony’s house.
Zuben …thanks …… but I must say ….way back in the beginning ….when I first heard about Kronk …I thought he was a KONK! Too, too strange to believe he “found” Caylee’s remains… called police, they found nothing …then FOUR MONTHS LATER HE “FINDS” SOMETHING AGAIN … weird! More than that … I cannot imagine.
IIRC CS made the comment on scared monkeys way back. She addresses it in the interview by Mort. IIRC she eluded to thinking it would ease tension and regretted posting it.
I am not sure why people would think that RK took Caylee from the home. Although it is certainly possible and I would like to hear more theories in that direction, I personally think Kc actually gave Caylee to someone. It does not surprise me that Kc had a baby blanket in her car. It does not surprise me that Kc had a laundry bag in her car. It does not surprise me that Caylee was found with a blanket and laundry bag. People are found all the time with their personal belongings. IMO Young mothers carry laundry bags and blankets in their car’s all the time. It only makes sense when you do not have your own home and washer and dryer. IMO
It also does not surprise me that Kc could have the timeline wrong when thinking back over a month. It does not surprise me that GA could have the timeline wrong. What we write in an statement in the middle of the night under extreme stress could easily be flawed. Furthermore they were all convinced it was June 9th. One can not assume that what one thought happened on June 9th, automatically gets forwarded to June 16th. The evidence is there that they were flawed in their recollection from the start. IMO
Fast forward to June of 2009 and we have JT making a statement to police that he saw Kc and Caylee in Cassleberry Walmart on June 16th 08. If the state did not believe him, then why did they put him on their witness list. He further states that they were in his computer store the week before asking if she could write a check. (with what? she didn’t have amy’s checkbook, and her mother closed her account? ) I am proned to believe this JT character because the state put him on their list.
What is it that steers Kc north ? Why was she there the week before? What is going on in Cassleberry and what happened in Cassleberry that day? Why does she need an flat screen monitor? she has an laptop. I am afraid we are going to find out that Kc was in Cassleberry that afternoon and if she dropped Caylee off at sawgrass, it was much later. There is the possibility that Kc left her cell phone at home and went back to get it at 4 and upon arriving she started to return all the missed calls. Perhaps that would explain the flurry of calls. IMO
On the otherhand, if JT is lying, then why put him on the witness list?
Oh, I agree Hazaka. Buy, “at first” I meant before I found out he had already called 3 times in August and how much the story differed.
Zuben, I know I read that the F.B.I. documents were released to the defense just curious they were not released to media. I really cannot for the sake of me see that RK had anything to do with Caylees death sorry JMO. I think JB has done the best he can to defend Casey with what he has had to work with. The stories all come from Casey and it is his job to defend her and her stories to the best of his ability. I watched a trial that CM defended a guy do not think a jury will take to him, not very likable, this may hurt Casey. IMO it all comes back to Caseys own words that she gave birth too and without a reasonable explanation as to why she said what she did regarding the disappearance ,she and her defense team will have to live with her first explanation as to why and how Caylee was missing.
LOL, buy by bye.. I don’t buy it now, and by now I would think the state wouldn’t be buying it but they are deeply invested in him and the newly created version. How they will explain the differences from August to December, I have no idea.
Bye Bye,
Zub
Diane, if Kronk had that route before or when Caylee was last seen, I might suspect him of direct involvment but I don’t think that is the case and don’t think that is the direction the defense was trying to head. I believe they just want to make the point that Casey didn’t do it and LE looked no further than her, ignored what they should have done during the investigation, look at him or any other possible suspects. As far as the defense being stuck with what Casey has said so far, there are other ways to add to or change that story, such as through testimony of anyone she had contact with that day or shortly after. She had contact with more than just TL. Who knows, they may come up with someone that saw her on June 16, not already revealed within the group of witnesses. And, we don’t yet have the full story on the Sawgrass maintenance man. I think it is feasible that she could have actually went to Sawgrass that day, then somewhere not too far from home, and her phone pings still make sense. From 13:00-13:26 there were no calls so she could have dropped her during that time, then went back to within the home towers range.
Do I really think Kronk abducted Caylee? Not really….. but….
It’s soooo easy for soooo many to be certain Casey killed Caylee just because she is a habitual liar yet only a few of us realize if Kronk really was an innocent good samaritan then his story would be consistant, which it is faaarrrrrrr from even making a lick of sense.
If Casey was not proven to be a lifelong liar, that’d be another story,
but her lies did not start when Caylee went missing, so for Caseys character you would not expect her to call 911 or her family for help, you’d expect her to do what Casey does, and that is to hide, lie and cover up to protect her from what she is scared most of, which is being a failure that she was so often called by her mother.
We’ve got John Allen, the sherrif that should be trained in making a 1/2 accurate judge in distance telling the media the day Caylee was found, that her remains were 40 ft from the road a few minutes later it’s 60 feet and says that area had been searched on numerous occasions by the OCSD and was under water and thats wh
Indygal, thank you. I have been wondering where these people are getting 40 to 60 feet from the road. JJ states it in his interviews. I guess it was from the OCSO themselves. Truth is that Caylee’s skull was found 17 to 18 feet from the road and that makes her feet even closer. Mort was right when he told JJ 15 feet. John Allen again moves to confuse and ask for distance from the school when the fence was a much better reference point. I have talked to many bloggers as well that think the body was found 40 to 60 feet in. This must be why. The public should be able to rely on the police to be honest and at least close in their estimations or don’t estimate. MOO
Indygal,
Apparently, Jose Baez does not agree with your assessment of Casey Anthony as a long-term liar whose behavior did not change with the disappearance/death of her daughter as Mason just filed a motion requesting all testimony to the lying nature of Casey Anthony be barred from trial.
Therefore, the defense wishes to paint Ms. Anthony as a truth-teller whose lies began the moment she filed the police report of missing Caylee.
Perhaps you should give Jose a call and let him know that setting Casey up for the jury to perceive a drastic change in behavior at the exact moment her daughter went missing and which included efforts to stall the investigation and send the police on a wild goose chase is not as good a defense as allowing the testimony of those who knew her to illustrate she has always been a liar and nothing changed due to a terrible event.
Do I really think Kronk abducted Caylee? Not really….. but….
It’s soooo easy for soooo many to be certain Casey killed Caylee just because she is a habitual liar yet only a few of us realize if Kronk really was an innocent good samaritan then his story would be consistant, which it is faaarrrrrrr from even making a lick of sense.
If Casey was not proven to be a lifelong liar, that’d be another story,
but her lies did not start when Caylee went missing, so for Caseys character you would not expect her to call 911 or her family for help, you’d expect her to do what Casey does, and that is to hide, lie and cover up to protect her from what she is scared most of, which is being a failure that she was so often called by her mother.
We’ve got John Allen, the sherrif that should be trained in making a 1/2 accurate judge in distance telling the media the day Caylee was found, that her remains were 60-80 ft from the road a few minutes later it’s 40-60 feet and says that area had been searched on numerous occasions by the OCSD and was under water and thats why Caylee was not found.
Yet it was not 40 60 0r 80 ft, it was closer to 15ft or less.
(if someone knows how many feet exactly, I’d really like to know)
Then we got Kronk back in August and his detailed description of what he saw,
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3710705/Roy-Kronk-911-Calls-January-2009
Read page 6 and visulize what he’s reporting.
Aug 11th 12th 13th
The land is obviously dry, but it is near a swamp.
Later LE gets him to say the skull was definately submerged in water , the whole area was covered in water, he know this because (brace yourself) .. you ready?….
Hurricane Fay had just came through and dumped tons of water.
Sorry Kronk, but “Tropical Storm Fay” did not hit until Aug 18th.
My point is why lie? Why exagerate ?
Why won’t LE admit they made mistakes?
Their reputation, the way people perceive them possibly?
But Casey does it and there no other explanation other than she’s covering up her carefully planned out perfect , childless bella vita life, ridiculous murderous plot.
NTS, your welcome,
I changed my post from 40-60 to 60-80 cause I looked in my notes and found where I had noted Berry saying 80 another time, I’m looking for the video now,
I did come across this one which shows why he was scurrying around to try to explain why she was not found earlier,
notice he says “Probably” lol
YIKES!!!!
sorry JB,
I had no Idea that was gonna happen
Hi Indygal,
No problem. I like visuals.
Good Afternoon Bullstopper,
After reading your numerous comments, back to back, making it hard to find the comments I’m interested in. I decided to condense them all into one BIG comment since you haven’t engaged in discussion with any of my readers.
I hope you don’t mind,
JBmission
Bullstopper, the Condensed version:
Submitted on 2010/12/28 at 2:12 pm
“It’s been reported that because Jose Baez failed to meet the deadline, Roy Kronk is a free man”
Yet another deception masquerading as a fact. Roy is a free man because he is free. Roy is a free man because he has not been arrested. Roy has not been arrested because he has committed no crime. Roy’s freedom, now or in the future, has nothing to do with Jose Baez. A bumbling local attorney’s failures to meet his deadlines neither frees nor incarcerates Roy Kronk.
Having read all the mainstream media reports, I fail to find any that connect the freedom of Roy Kronk with any actions of Jose Baez.
MY RESPONSE: THIS QUOTE CAME FROM ONE OF YOUR MAINSTREAM MEDIA REPORTS. CHECK IT OUT.
Submitted on 2010/12/28 at 2:08 pm
“Factor #5 is the most valuable for the Defense. If the Defense believes in LE, doesn’t that seem odd that someone would find her in August and NOT in September, October or November?”
How is this valuable for anyone, including the defense?
Who found her in August? No one. Kronk called because from the street he saw a bag. From the street… a bag, not a body. No one found a body until Kronk picked up a bag and her skull rolled out.
Let’s review. Who found Caylee in August? No one.
What are the chances if no one found her in August, no one found her in September, October, and November? 100% because she was found in December.
If you need to invent fictions like “someone would find her in August”, then your premise and conclusions are false.
MY RESPONSE: “KRONK IS THE “SOMEONE” WHO FOUND CAYLEE IN AUGUST UNLESS YOU DON’T BELIEVE HIM??
Submitted on 2010/12/28 at 2:03 pm
“Here’s a guy who finds Caylee’s remains in August, calls LE on 3 different occasions and they can’t find Caylee’s remains while standing there with Kronk pointing to it. That doesn’t seem likely. ”
So, what are you trying to say with this convoluted piece of drivel? Are you saying Kronk was seeking fame, so he called the cops out, then purposely led them astray so they would not find the bag? Are you saying Kronk planted the snake which kept the deputy out of the water?
For the record, on the third call, with Kronk standing right there, they found the body.
MY RESPONSE: NOW YOU’RE SAYING “THEY FOUND THE BODY” ???? WHERE’S THE MEDIA REPORT ON THAT ONE?
Submitted on 2010/12/28 at 1:55 pm
What is the legal point, where is the legal gain, from using Kronk, who everyone agrees including the people on this forum did not murder Caylee Anthony, to illustrate the defense proposition that law enforcement did not investigate all suspects?
Rather than make law enforcement look like buffoons, does this example not demonstrate how quickly and efficiently law enforcement was able to clear Mr. Kronk from the assorted red herrings which plague this case? Once the police determined Mr. Kronk was not involved, did they really need to continue to waste tax dollars on investigating a man we all agree is not involved in the death of Caylee Anthony as Jose Baez wants to suggest? Where is the failure on the part of the police?
Why is Jose Baez wasting tax dollars and investigative hours interviewing Mr. Kronk’s relatives if Jose Baez does not believe Mr. Kronk murdered Caylee?
MY RESPONSE: MR. BAEZ IS DEFENDING HIS CLIENT.
Bullstopper,
I have only one more response to you. “You don’t get it” Wait, “You don’t get it”…Oh “You don’t get it”…right, right “You don’t get it”…….
Give me a break, and go back to your site.
TIA
Well it is RK that said he was 99.9 percent sure it was a skull he saw in August. So, I can assume that means he found a body. He said he was only 50 percent sure it was in the same area. So, Rk is basically saying he found her in August. That being said and to respond to the other things you said.
Yes I think it is possible that a person could call something in a few months early and point out a bag of twigs.
Yes I think it is possible that a person could then after the area was cleared, dump the body there later.
Yes I think it is possible that a person could then claim that he had nothing to do with this, in fact he called it in back in August and now collect the reward money.
Hey hey hey now, don’t go pointing the finger at me, you are the ones with the snarky officer that couldn’t see, you are the ones that said the area was cleared, I am just the messenger and where is my reward?
How else could a person dispose of a body, frame someone, and collect a reward all at the same time? It may have been a brilliant plan as far as I know, but problem is, that none of what he says makes sense. And I agree, that he progressivly changes his story each time he talks to LE. It appears to be a pattern of deceit.
I wonder what his plan was when he called in the illegal firearms. This shows a pattern. He misled police for a reason. Officer Cain was fired because it fit into the picture that LE and RK want you to see. Everything I said was opinion and theory.
((((((((((((((((((((thejbmission)))))))))))))))))))))))
That’s my comment for now!
Hello, BullStopper, and welcome to THE site where everyone is expected and encouraged to share their differing opinions in a respectful way. I think you haven’t read the docs closely enough, if I may be so bold. The snake was dead and it had already been taken away and put in Kronk’s co-worker’s freezer by the time Cain came on scene in August. Which record supports your saying they found the body with Kronk standing right there? You then go on to say,
But the problem here is, it is contradicting what you had just said. Also, if you read his call transcripts and his interviews you will see that he was in the woods, not in the street when he claims he saw her. It was more than a metallic silver bag, it was a white round object that he thought was a little skull, not in the bag, out where he could see it. Also, he changed his story about the skull rolling out at the insistence of LE. It became, “lifted the bag” with his stick and saw it.
Exactly Zuben!
Kronk found the body in August?? No he didn’t…yes he did…no he didn’t. Contradiction
indeed! LOL Geesh..
Why so many things missing?
Did they not interview RK’s girlfriend? He stated in his interview when the officer showed up, “we” were sitting over there in the air conditioning. They really should have interviewed her.
Where is Mallory’s interview??????????????????????????????????
Where is Mark from California interview?????????????????????????
Where is gonzalez interview from sawgrass maintenance man???????????????
Where is JT interview from Cassleberry?????????????????????????????
Where are the recent 50 pages of fbi reports???????????
Does anyone really believe that all these interviews would be too damning to release?
NTS, they aren’t supposed to be able to refuse to release anything other than the autopsy report and anything they ask to be sealed by the judge and he orders it sealed. They haven’t had anything sealed.
Indygal,
I checked out this link
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4768151/3976-4026_redacted_kronk_statement
Here’s a few tidbits I found:
Phone examination report Properties-
Kronk’s phone contacts:
I noticed a phone number for Tammy, entry #8, pg 8 of 51, doc pg 3977
Tammy, like in Lt. Unser, I would hope not but I’m curious.
I also noticed a pic of a small furry dog, pic # 8, doc pg 3983
Reminded me of Cindy. Didn’t she think ZG has a dog because she found a grocery list in KC’s car where she found dog food?
And this:
Interview with Deputy Jerold White from TipLine & Det. Eric Edwards
Pg 28, verified that he was told the area the meter reader reported was cleared.
JW: Alright. When uh, when I received the uh, the tip I review it wan uhm, I went…
Obviously Kronk was a concern for the investigators too. That’s why they needed validation from Jerold White. Was this a miscommunication? Or WAS it cleared. I think the SAO Ashton would choose “miscommunication”
I’m hoping this proves that we are NOT maligning LE without reason. They can’t have it both ways.
Thanks Indygal for your contribution.
JB —- it’s getting wild xoxooxoxo
Hazaka
December 28, 2010 at 5:49 pm edit
JB —- it’s getting wild xoxooxoxo
=====================
Stamp! (((Hazaka)))
Hello Everyone,
Here’s more information on Kronk’s kidnapping attempt in 1992. This person is quoting Roy’s story but as we all know, “there’s two sides to every story”
http://babyboomeradvisorclub.com/2009/01/13/wkmg-sources-say-casey-anthony-killed-caylee-anthony-intentionally/
Bullstopper, if you rely on the media for your information you are going to be very surprised when the actual facts come up during trial. The media is constantly presenting wishes or leaks or whatever, as fact that is a complete contradiction of the facts as they are read in the actual discovery documents. The media reporting must often be considered for entertainment purposes, not reporting facts. So, it’s pointless to judge the validity of anything based on whether the media reported on it or not.
JB, I think you picked up the wrong link.
oops,
This story from WKMG
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/18448218/detail.html
Zuben, I just happened to find this comment on that site. It is factual according to my source so I thought I would bring it here. So it’s not so confusing, I c&p’ed here.
Sorry for the confusion.
—————
Jason says:
February 13, 2009 at 12:00 am
Man Who Found Caylee’s Remains-Once Arrested On Kidnapping Charge.
Man Who Found Caylee’s Remains Once Arrested On Kidnapping Charge in South Carolina.
The Meter Reader who found little Caylee Anthony remains is likely to have a Network TV Interview to clear suspicions, that he had any thing to do with the Caylee Anthony death-murder.
Roy Kronk who is the Orange County utility worker, who called in three reports about a suspicious bag…and who in fact on December11Th, 2008, discovered the remains of little Caylee Anthony in a wooded area near the girl’s grandparents’ home, was arrested in the early 1990s on kidnapping charges.
Kronk said in a statement issued to WKMG that the kidnapping involved a domestic situation with a man who was living with his former girlfriend.
“In the early 1990s, while on duty with the U.S. Coast Guard in Key West, Florida, I had a girlfriend who made the decision to discontinue her relationship with me and move to South Carolina to reside with another man. But really I was so mad when she let me for that other guy, that’s why I went up there to take her away, but I did get caught, and hired a real good lawyer.
At some time after her departure, she called me and asked me to come to South Carolina and help her move away from that individual. I traveled to South Carolina to assist her. Upon my arrival in South Carolina, the man she was living with engaged me in a confrontation.
As a result of that confrontation, I was arrested based on allegations that I had kidnapped my former girlfriend.
The matter was submitted to a grand jury in South Carolina. The grand jury determined that there was no probable cause to bring charges against me. In recognition of these allegations, all records relating to this arrest were expunged by the South Carolina court.
“Also with hiring the best attorney that money can buy, any good attorney can get you off of anything like my attorney did in South Carloina”.
WKMG has personally confirmed that information is included in the criminal background check conducted on Roy Kronk prior to his hiring with Orange County.
Kronks’ attorney, David Evans, said Friday that it is likely his client will likely give the interview Monday or Tuesday. Evans would not say which network would conduct the interview. It’s customary for networks to pay expenses for its guests, which Evans said would happen, but he would not say if Kronk was being paid for the interview. Also Roy stated “if I don’t get paid for the interview, then I will not tell them everything”.
“Roy Kronk lost his wife to cancer last year, and that battle brought him down to his last dime,” said Evans, who added that he would like to find a way to get his client some compensation,for that lost. So Roy uses poor Caylee being dead,hides her body all that time, then says look at what I found. It was video taped prior to the so called discovery. So how is it that Roy really found the bag? Or did he? It was more than likely he planted the bag there. We all searched the area and found nothing. So why is it that an ex kidnapper finds it, and not the police. He even had the charges expunged from his record. If he had nothing to hide why do that.
Roy has only commented once since the gruesome discovery was made. That was three weeks ago when he held a news conference and issued a brief statement,expecting to get paid on every news conference. Roy Kronk tried to go and get a exclusive interview deal with a media outlet and expected to be paid one million dollars for the story. It was decline and he then refused to tell the story unless he was going to get paid. He stated he would tell them the real truth of what really happened that day.
“Back in August of this year, I had previously reported to Crimeline and to the sheriff’s communications center that I had spotted something suspicious, a bag in the same area,” Kronk said in August. “But I failed to tell them everything about the case that I know so I don’t get into trouble.I promised Lee Anthony I would keep him out of it. Don’t you think it is quite odd, the grandparents out in California doing an interview and Lee is here all alone and we decide to say hay, look at what I found, but the media and police did buy it.I have been and will continue to cooperate fully with the ongoing investigation by the sheriff’s office and the FBI, but I wanted to get paid and they refused to pay me for my story.
There are numerous conspiracy theories that have circulated about Kronk’s role in the case, and Evans said his client feels the time is right to set the record straight for the people if they pay a price for it.
Evans said he is preparing Roy for all types of scrutiny.
It is rumored that Roy Kronk and his attorney Evans have been unwilling to sit down and answer any questions from Anthony’s defense team. They have not been cooperating with authorities. Charges may be pending against Roy Kronk for tampering with holding information from law enforcement, unless if he gets paid for it.
So, Roy Kronk, the Man Who Found Caylee’s Remains-Once Arrested On Kidnapping Charge, is not a kidnapper. Just once again, a good Samaritan, yeah right. Also the city of Orlando gives him a raise moves him to a warehouse, and the city of Orlando tax payers pay well over $10,000.00 for his legal fees to his Attorney. What is wrong with this picture??
BTW, after re-reading bullstopper’s comment, I don’t think he’s worth the effort.
Gosh I leave for a couple of hours and wow what comments. All I can say about RK is I am glad he did find the body regardless of how, what , when or where. I have learned a good lesson if I find a body to run as fast as I can and forget anything I saw otherwise anything I every did in my whole life would come out,am sure someone could find something not so perfect. I agree with Indy I am also wondering why everything has not been released am sure some of these things are not so prejudiced against her that they would not release them. I feel sure starting in January we will begin to see a lot of movement in the case. OK real thing that I probably should not say but will anyway. This case to me has brought out the worse in people as per some of the comments I have read on various blogs. This is a sad situation and has dirtied the name of a sweet innocent child who at know fault of her own was taken away by someone before her time all I want is justice for her.
Me too Diane. I want Justice for Caylee, but I also think Justice for victims is achieved with a fair trial system. How else are we to know we got it right? We must have fair trials and there must be full disclosure…. IMO
In his motion, defense attorney Jose Baez said the fingerprint examiner only saw the alleged residue when she performed a procedure called “super glue fuming.”
The examiner said she wasn’t certain exactly what she saw and did not authorize law-enforcement to “allege otherwise, the story of the ‘heart sticker.’”
“Law enforcement has been instrumental in manufacturing a story where there clearly was none,” Baez wrote.
“Despite their complete lack of basis in fact, these reckless and patently untrue statements have exploded in the media and quickly spiraled out of control. There is now a common public perception, contrary to fact, that actual residue of a sticker was found on the duct tape
Now that the FBI agent has been deposed, we know the rest of the story. She is probably very very embarrassed. Yuri stated that the sticker appeared as though it was placed there purposefully. Why? why did he do this? What is up with these people? There is no sticker, there is no residue, there is no picture of a sticker or a picture of residue. Is the state trying to produce imanginarry evidence?
Thanks, JB, I didn’t realize there were comments below the article. This is the first time I read that he had first tried to force her to come back and got caught. I’d only read that he was asked to come rescue her. Hmmm There are a couple of things written there that just seem like Kronk wouldn’t be stupid enough to say. I see no link for the article he is quoting. Do you suppose the commenter added a couple of lines?
NTS, where did you get this info? Quite interesting but just as I thought.
Sorry Zub, here is the link
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-casey-anthony-heart-sticker-20101229,0,5749918.story
Thanks, NTS. I’d like to read that depo and the motion. I’m sure we will see the later but so far we haven’t seen any depo transcripts the defense has conducted, have we? I just read that the JAC filed 80 pages saying the PI is over budget and doing work that a secretary or paralegal should be doing.
Have a great night all.
Yes, Jerry is one hour over…… and perhaps he needs a bookeeper, but if it was the other way around, someone would compain that they have to pay for his secretary. I think none of this would be happening if LE would have done their job. It seems to me that the defense is doing their job for them. just my opinion
WOW..lots here!..Good read JB and all. Been busy..Trying to catch up reading.
I have lots to say. But I haven’t even got through the comments! LOL
One comment now..I would love to hear Brandon, RK’s son..statement about what
his father said to him on that call around Thanksgiving..What his mother said,
was he called saying he was going to be on TV for finding the body. HOW DID
HE KNOW IT WAS CAYLEE? He stated in all his contradicting calls terms referring
to “friggin dead body”..skulls..etc..He tells his son Caylee’s body, weeks before he
actually tells the police? I can see an assumption of the proximity of the remains.
But they were NOT visible to anyone else. You have 4 LE who were out there
during the first 3 911 calls. In between that time independent and organized
searchers, sheriffs dept searches..cadalver dogs..physics.. Private detectives..
passer byers.. NO ..NO…NO…CAYLEE..NO SKULL..NO BODY..NO REMAINS..
BUT..ONE SUPER HERO finds it over and over..Like right out of his video games.
But before he actually gives the information to the police on Dec. 11, 2008. He gives
the information to his son in Nov 2008.????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Snoop. I think it is on the same website. Mort also taped Brandon’s statement.
http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/casey-anthony-case-son-of-former-meter-reader-roy-kronk-interviewed-by-defense-video?render=print
not sure this is all of it
Hi notthatsmart2010,
I’m sorry I missed your comment at 7:11 pm
I concur. I want Justice for Caylee too and I agree the trial system must be fair. There’s too many court room antics taking place in Judge Perry’s court room and it’s 6 months till trial.
If both sides would just play fair and try to get along, maybe justice will prevail.
I don’t live in Florida but what I do know is Florida believes in swift justice.
It seems like since Miss Anthony isn’t pleading out, the State is going to have to fight for this conviction…It must be scary for them. Actually, I’m as shocked as they are…I didn’t think Anthony would take it this far either but she is so they better be prepared. There’s no court appointed attorneys to play “Let’s Make a Deal”. Maybe that’s why the SAO’s are so frazzled..
Wow…way too much to comment on…NTS, the recording with Brandon was an interview and not a depo…big difference. Only in a depo are they asked to swear to the testimony rendered so it can be used in a court of law. I’ll reserve judgement on the interview until I can hear or read the depo that took teeth pulling to get out of Brandon.
ZubenElSchemali
December 28, 2010 at 6:45 pm
I think this was an unfair statement. There were quite a few things the media reported that came to pass when facts were released and a lot that was not. Our comments on this site have taken us places because of conjecture and mixed with facts. There are so many pages of stuff in this case that will never see the light of day in court.
Regardless how many times Kronk called the fact is he did find her. I have followed along with all the questions concerning him and the find. All of us have taken a few facts and mixed our thoughts into Kronk to paint him in a bad way. All are ready to bring his past in but not KC’s….Paradox. The momentum of using Kronk as reasonable doubt has come and gone. It’s still possible under the right line of questioning that a door could open to bring him in a again but not like they could have if they would have filed the motions.
I hope the rest of the docs are released soon. There are many unresolved issues especially with the depos and they are running out of time. If Perry says that the trial starts in May?
Well…I don’t want to see anymore delays….
By the way…Snoop, Did you ever get the confirmation you were looking for on the date you were at the store?
D: I apologize for the confusion. I said statement, not depo, but just the same, thank you for pointing it out. I agree that the depo will be of great value, but I do not want to diminish this interview. Mort was not forcing him to say anything. I too am holding out for the Depo to see if he continues his claim of RK telling him about Caylee in November.
Hi Damagd,
Good comment but I just wanted to say.. Frankly, I don’t care if Casey’s background is out there or not. I mean it is..LOL Right, and lots of it. So it’s not unusual for the defendant in a capital murder case not to have their bad acts revealed to media and at trial.
As for Kronk..Yes, I agree it is unusual for the “hero” who found the victim to be scrunitized to this degree. But there is an UNUSUAL series of events that took place in finding Caylee.
If there were not such as it is..I can’t see HOW NOT to check out Kronk to nth degree if necessary.
The purpose of my post isn’t to malign Kronk. It’s to explain WHY he should be checked out and NOT malign Baez for doing so. In my opinion, if the defense doesn’t investigate this person thoroughly, Kronk could be grounds for a re-trial.
It’s all about disclosure. Just like we didn’t hear anything about Juan G, the maintenance man who worked at Sawgrass apts. and quit on June 17th. Perhaps, Jose Baez knew about him and wasn’t concerned.
But the media didn’t do a thing with that information either. I guess it wasn’t dramatic enough..
LOL In any case, disclosure is the answer to justice. That’s all that I expect.
Way back up thread on Dec. 27th. Zueben first comment about the indescrepancies in Roy’s story. First it was a whitish or gray bag.. then it looked like a skull. When he called the first time Cain only saw bags of trash. The second call was made from his house I think after he got off work that day. The third call was made on Aug 12th. How did Kronk describe the bag on 3 separate occasions? Also, did he have to piss 3 days in a row, in the same area? Then the storm passed. I’m sorry the 3rd call was made on the 13th of Aug. Now, did he go to piss in the woods again on Dec. 11th? In the same area? Then it was a black bag. He kicked the bag and a skull rolled out. Or no skull rolled out. WWWAAAYYY to many stories from Roy Kronk. He doesn’t look or talk like the sharpest knife in the drawer. i AM NOT SAYING THAT HE HARMED cAYLEE. I am just saying his story sounds fishy. He got a lawyer… paid for by the county.. Lawyers are real good at getting stories put together.
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karmuh, Sorry, you were caught in moderation. You’re absolutely right. Kronk’s story was fishy from the start. Welcome and I hope you visit again.
JB
And I meant to say that Zeuben is right. No one asked about his different stories. Not even LE. Some called it a hunch???? 4 times???? Weak bladder???? 4 times???? Same neighborhood???? 4 times???? I find that at the least, strange.
nts..Thanks..I never saw that tape.
I was just reviewed these ariel videos ..photos..etc. last week.
I was at the site last Thur. on the way back from the airport..and a stop at a clients home ..I realized how close I was and went for a look.I was going to take some pics with my phone but I did unfortunately I did not have enough charge. There was a small weathered cross
a short distance in maybe 8-10 ft. There was no water. I was tempted..to walk in..but it being dusk decided not. There was still some clearance there..although some growth as well
These old videos and slides of that day give you some visual of how far in they entered.
I had a video from News 13 that had the first announcement of the short distance off the
road. However the link to 13 and most to 13 are broken. It was later in the afternoon that
the Sheriff gave an account of 35-45-60 ft off road. In the beginning the distance was was very short! We were all going WTH first it is a few ft off the road, which was unbelievable.. then 35-45-60 ft.
If you look through these various pictures small parts of video will show you in
actuallity how far they were going in.http://www.wftv.com/video/18255280/index.html
http://www.wftv.com/video/18266518/index.html There are a few more links there.
A lot of links are broken these days and information gone. So I suggest anything you
want..download it! I have several broken links!
Here is a link of Nieves discussing Kronk Dec. 19th it is revealed that Kronk called more
than once http://www.wesh.com/video/18311707/detail.html
I have often wondered why Lenoard Padilla flew in to Fl 1-2 days prior. He no longer
was doing anything with KC way before that.
As i said in a comment, that did not show up.. Roy Kronks story makes no sense. Not any off his 3 or 4 versions. His lawyer was paid for by the county. His lawyer helprd him “finalize” his story. He “shopped” for a show who would pay him before he would tell them anything. Doesn’t sound like a good samaritan to me.. He sounds like also a person interested in money. As Zueben pointed out about the descriptions of the bags, and the skull either rolling out or not rolling out. Just too inconsistant.
Hi Hazaka. I remember you from Bill S. blog. Several months ago. I think this is an informative site. Without all the viciousness of many other cites. I may not agree with everyone but I certainly agree with a lot on here. The Roy Kronk stories being inconsistant for one. Also after reading about Jaun G. {is it Gonzalez?} the Sawgrass maintenance man who quit on June 17th. What is that about and why did we hear nothing about him? I am suspicious by nature but this really makes me wonder.
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getreal,
Thanks for stopping by. Come back any time.
JB
Good morning, Damagdpets. I disagree that my statement about the media vs reading the actual docs was unfair. Yes, some facts are stated in news articles but much fallacy is also. A lot that is important is omitted too. But, we can agree to disagree on that point. Whether we are talking about Kronk or the defendant, anything in their past that that is relevant to the circumstances of Caylee’s death and discovery is important and should be addressed through the evidence submitted at trial. Duct tape is clearly important if it was found and believed to be on her at or before death. There has been a lot made of the fact that Casey used duct tape, Amy’s, for the anything but clothes party. The fact that Kronk seems to like duct tape has also been brought to light. Now, which do you think is more damning, using it to restrain a girlfriend/spouse or to tape a flag together to cover your body? The fact that the same brand of tape was found on the gas can and in a photo, used to hang a poster of Caylee, is also important and needed to be investigated. But, the fibers didn’t match so it ceased to be relevant unless they can show that the cotton portion of the threads is completely dissolved.
If I were asked a question off the record or not under oath my answer would be the same during depo, especially if it were something like this about my parent. I have no reason to believe Kronk’s son’s testimony will be any different. Not everyone lies that easily, and why would he? That is a pretty embarrassing thing. He doesn’t have a dad in his life or supporting him growing up then he suddenly calls him weeks before he finds a dead child, telling him he will be the star of the show. I certainly would hesitate to make that public but ultimately would, for the sake of truth and an innocent child.
Snoop, thanks for the links. The first one I looked at, the 1 minute mark shows exactly where she was, LE & Kronk walking in and out of the opening. You can tell how close she was by how quickly then enter and then exit the trees. The cleared and mowed edge looks to be about 10 ft or so. They take 5 steps to reach the tree, average step being about 2 ft. That means that she was only another 10 ft or less, in. No way at least one or two searchers wouldn’t have looked that far in an opening like that. You wouldn’t have to step foot inside the tree line to see that and would never have to get your feet wet even if there was water there at the time.
D, here is a good example of what I am saying about the media’s version of the facts: http://www.wftv.com/video/18266518/index.html They are claiming that coffin flies in the trunk means that there was a dead body there and that just isn’t the case. This critter will visit any dumpster, trash container, sewer, any damp organic matter.
Refresh my memory …. when did Jill or ANYONE who really knew him, sing praises about Kronk?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I’ll find a link and post it up later just to prove that jill AND crystal were praising him. Jill “had a gut feeling” A YEAR LATER?! REALLY!?? that she didn’t bother mentioning until mort was there. as i said lets see if they tell the same “tales” under oath. and as far as the toothless tatted crankfreak looking daughter WTF was she when Roy was taking care of her cancer stricken mother? user much? she appears to be, he was Ok as long as he suited a purpose but again once she was “mort”ified ONLY then does she find his behavior objectionable (she didn’t file charges or make a report) the state will tear her up on cross, ESPECIALLY if she was PAID.
Morning all……….. something deep in my gut tells me — and I believe I’ve said this since the “beginning” ….. Casey gave Caylee to someone — someone who turned out to be quite unsavory and in fact the cause for her alarm and fear in divulging much information –
I think at first there was no worry — but — then things turn deadly.
cecelia
December 29, 2010 at 7:24 am
—————————-
Why do you feel it’s necessary to call names and denegrate?
Good morning All,
Since Zuben was pointing out inconsistencies in the media vs. documents I’ve wondered about this finding for some time.
In the FBI report, doc pg 5583 it clearly states no sticker residue??
Doc dump May 1, 2009 in my records on page 3 of 24
~~
ITEMS FROM MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE
Q62-Q64 Tape
This report contains the results of the questioned document examinations.
Results of Examination:
The Q62 through Q64 pieces of tape were examined for the presence of any stickers.
No stickers or sticker fragments were observed on these items.
Remarks:
The submitted specimens will be returned under separate cover.
Digital images of specimens Q62 through Q64 are retained.
Lorie L. Gottesman
Questioned Documents Unit
cecelia,
I hope you’re not offended but I need to ask..Are you related to Roy Kronk in some way? Girlfriend? It seems like you know a lot about him and his past wives, so I’m just curious.
TIA,
JB
Thanks Snoop for the link. It’s really disturbing to think how close she was to the road. It brought back a memory of that sad day. BTW, I’m still trying to get my bearings from location Area A to the location of the fence. Looking at that video is the fence to the right or the left?
Snoop,
I just watched Nieves video statement. I bet Allen, Edwards and Melich were freaking out when Kronk called Dec 11th to report a body and THEN they find out he called 3 times in Aug w/deputy @ the crime scene. O.M.G.
They were going in CYA mode ASAP. I’m sure if LE had their way, they would go after Kronk just for the sake of their reputation. They worked so hard…you know they wanted Casey in a bad way for not cooperating and then they find out Kronk pulled a similar stunt in Tennessee when he reported stolen firearms and other items in a wooded field, when LE arrives, the items magically disappear?? Oh wow, I wonder if the SAO told LE to lay off of Kronk?? Just a thought..
thejbmission
December 29, 2010 at 10:02 am
——————————
Are you serious re: Kronk and “disappeared” firearms… wow… he’s a FINDER …NOT!
JB, I agree that there was no scientific proof about the sticker residue but Baez wants the heart sticker thrown out….I doubt this because it was evidence gathered close to her body.
I just don’t see anything in the immediate area of the crime scene being thrown out.
Hazaka, I have often thought that could have been a possibility but who? The problem in researching Caylee being given to someone else really can’t be supported. Always back to the beginning..The last year+ of Caylee’s life was spent with G&C or KC. There is absolutely no evidence of anyone else baby sitting/watching her. I don’t think Lee and or Mallory ever admitted to baby sitting. Having identified the players the only suggestion would be that KC gave Caylee to a stranger? I can’t buy that scenario. The only evidence we have is that George and KC were the last to see her.
Zub, I believe you when you say you would tell the same story. The problem that we have found through out this case is that not everyone is like you. There have been way too many people that have lied or changed their stories. The biggest problem for me is what was their motivation for doing so. There has to be a problem between Brandon freely giving an interview to Mort but it took the State of Florida several subpoenas and contacting the Attorney General in WA State to get a deposition. Shades of Laura B and I didn’t make any of this up.
In seeking justice and being a tax payer….The people that lied to LE, FBI, the State and the Defense, can be proven that they obstructed this case…Should Be Prosecuted.
The man from Sawgrass Apts. that is mentioned over and over….I know he left on June 17th but did he drop off the face of the earth or do LE and the defense know where these people are? Would it be that unusual to seek different employment and the dates just a coincidence? I have not seen evidence from either side that supports him even being a player. Maybe there will be more when all the docs come out. We are still missing many….
JB, if you are referring to this video, http://www.wftv.com/video/18255280/index.html the helicopter is shooting mostly from East and the North side. When the camera is looking straight in to where Caylee was found, pointing South, the fence is just to the right or West, maybe 100 yards or so, beginning between Kronk’s beige truck and the darker one, which I believe is his co-worker.
===========
Thanks Zuben, I get it! It’s hard to explain this but in my neck of the woods, “N,S,E & W” isn’t something we use here very often. What we call the Westbank is actually the Northbank…confusing.
Jb
D, there are so many “coincidences” in this case that one more wouldn’t surprise me. But, I don’t really believe in coincidences, as the quotation marks imply. I agree that stories shouldn’t change. My perception of Laura B was that she needed to get an attorney closer to the location before her depo. Once that was done, she was deposed without delay so I don’t see her as avoided or resisting. As for Brandon, perhaps he just didn’t want to subject himself to the prosecution twice, knowing what they would put him through. Maybe he thought being called during the trial should be enough, I don’t know. Perhaps he thought he didn’t have to do it since he is in another state. But, most important, maybe they couldn’t get in touch with him for a while. Remember, his email or phone or something had changed, hadn’t it? I have to wonder, did the SA call his mom to get his new contact info or did they just call the authorities there? One is way more dramatic than the other. Do you think Kronk’s son hates him so much he would make up a lie about him to get him in trouble? If so, what did Kronk do to cause so much animosity between him and his son?
I an foggy about it but it seems that the friend that lived in the same neighborhood, just to the South, said she had watched Caylee during that year or time frame. Am I remembering wrong? I believe it is the girl with a small child that met Casey and Caylee at the park. If I am remembering correctly, there is at least one other person besides family that sat for her. And we still have Grund saying he had heard the name, ZG, referred to as being a sitter for Caylee. He has no reason to make this up unless he were involved in some way. The state will have a real hard time getting rid of that testimony.
Zub, According to reports here Brandon was contacted and given a subpoena more than once…he flat refused until the State of WA put pressure on him. As far as what happened between father and son, I don’t see the relevance that would interfere with the case unless Brandon lied. I know that Kronk’s credibility is in question but his past wife and son are worse. They come across like the inmates that said things about KC…questionable. I know that you are hanging on for LB but if there were any revelation it would have been leaked. The reason I say this is because of Baez and Mason’s boasting on the news. This is a very important part of their case….to create reasonable doubt amongst the jury pool, hence the repeated claims by Cheney about TES searchers. To date, they still have not supplied one that helps their case. There has not even been mention that anyone was being deposed out of the 50 plus that Cheney was going to have interviewed. It might be premature but Cheney is running out of people. 2 1/2 years now with Baez & Mason, interview after interview, their proclamation of innocents but this is coming down to a forensic fight in court. The defense has no star witness with evidence to create the doubt. The prosecution has no smoking gun but has the circumstantial evidence to tell a compelling story. Either way, I hope we all can respect the jury after said and done, no matter what the verdict.
The friend to Casey you mentioned….babysat prior to the year+ I was referring to. It was my understanding she watched Caylee before there was a Zanny. It pains me to use Zanny or Zaneida……unless the defense has her walking into the courtroom…I don’t believe…..
Thanks, D. I hadn’t read anything about 2 subpoenas or his home state officials contacting him. Was it not reported in the Orlando news? Maybe I missed it. I guess I was putting myself in Brandon’s shoes because I’ve been in the position of being forced, even tricked into testifying against a parent. I was much younger than him but I really didn’t want to talk to the authorities because it felt wrong to speak against my parent so publicly. I was afraid of it being interpreted like I was betraying. I was only about 14 but that is the way I perceived it. Again, thanks for that information.
D’ – I’m trying to understand your logic..so my question, “Didn’t Lt. Tammy Unser have an attorney with her during her deposition for the State? IIRC, most of the civilian witnesses did. So why is it odd the Laura Buchanan stalled until she retained an attorney? As Zuben said, once she had an atty. there was no delay.
When I think about Brandon Sparks I think he just innocently blurted to his mother “hey Mom, Dad called me and told me yada yada yada” when Kronk was on the news Dec 11th.
I’m sure he couldn’t believe what he was seeing. I’m sure he hadn’t realized the implication of Roy’s phone call in mid-November, “excited utterance” comes to mind. JMO, I believe he said “it” and I also believe it’s possible he COULD have had some 2nd thoughts about testifying against his dad because of all of the bad publicity Kronk was getting..just my thoughts, but I don’t think CS lied about her son Brandon. She was doing enough damage to Kronk without doing that. JMO
IDK, is it just me? If there’s no residue of a sticker on the duct tape then how do they know there was a “heart sticker” on the duct tape to begin with? I assume we will see a photograph of the heart sticker on the duct tape at trial, at least I hope so.
JB, the image that is created when I read the description of where this phantom heart shaped residue supposedly was I almost have to laugh. Can you imagine someone placing 3 pieces of duct tape across a child’s mouth, so long that it goes past the jaws, ending up in the ear area, then putting a sticker on the end of it, over by the ear? What person, mother or pedophile would put a heart sticker there? I just can’t imagine that is feasible. Now, if it might land on the cheek or mouth, maybe, but the ear or under the ear? NO WAY!
Zub, haha, look what I found. Am I psychic or what?? I was thinking about the heart sticker too!! LOL
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/anthony_case/122910-anthony-defense-wants-evidence-tossed
Anthony defense wants evidence tossed
Updated: Wednesday, 29 Dec 2010, 6:39 AM EST
Published : Wednesday, 29 Dec 2010, 6:38 AM EST
Casey Anthony’sdefense team is trying to get certain evidence thrown out of the case before trial starts in May.
Anthony, 24, is charged with first-degree murder in the 2008 death of her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee Marie. She has pleaded not guilty, claiming a babysitter kidnapped her toddler. Caylee was last seen in June of 2008, but she was not reported missing until a month later. Her remains were found in woods near the family’s home in December 2008.
At issue some duct tape found near Caylee’s remains. An FBI crime lab tech reportedly found residue in the shape of a heart on the tape. But after it was initially reported, the heart could never be found again.
Casey’s attorneys claim allowing this evidence into trial violates her rights because they can’t refute it, since no one can see it.
Zuben,
I totally agree. The heart sticker is preposterous! Seriously, when the news broke about the heart sticker, that’s when I stopped believing the media hype about this case. Then I read the FBI report! It was an eye-opener for me. kRaZy…that’s all I can say. Maybe if I see it, I’ll believe it.
Jb, Here is a link to the water depth report:
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21909869/detail.html
On pdf page 3 is a map. On the map is a some kind of water line cover. 60 feet to the west of AREA A and then straight up to the curb is this waterline cap. In the video that snoop provided. You can clearly see this cap and area. It is right near the end of the fence and you can see the people walking in and out of the trees. The fence is not 100 yards, it is more like 75 feet. Note also when these people are walking in and out of the path, they are not stopping and being careful of the slope as RK described with officer Cain, they are not whipping vines out of their faces, they are simply walking in and out. It was raining that day.
====================
Thank you NTS for clarifying “the fence is not 100 yds away, more like 75 ft.” That’s makes it a lot easier for me.
Me too, JB. You know, I can completely understand everyone’s frustration and inability to believe anything Casey says because not much of what she has said has been substantiated and much has been proven false, or so it seems. But what I can’t understand is why her “lies” are considered inculpatory in a 1st degree murder case but none of the untruths coming from the prosecution and their witnesses is even questioned by the average person or media. The video taken at the jail on Dec. 11 is one example. I include Kronk in that group too. He clearly couldn’t have been telling the truth somewhere if he says he was and he wasn’t relieving himself in the woods. He can’t have both seen a white skull in August and it was hidden in the bag until he uncovered it in December. The bag doesn’t change from metalic silver grey to black and/or off white.
I had a thought of what might have caused the print person to think she saw a heart shape, if it is the same size as the puffy one found near by. Does anyone recall how far away that was found? I’m not familiar with that type of thing. Is it rather hard or soft and sqwuishy? I’m wondering if there might have been a way that the tape had been lying on top of the heart with some weight pressing downward. The tape would have shaped around the heart and an indentation would have been left behing, casting a shadow that might have appeared to be residue during the examination, when powder was applied. Are you picturing what I am saying? Now, when the powder is removed, it wouldn’t be noticeable anymore unless it were a very deep indentation that hadn’t gotten removed through smoothing and flattening the tape in that area? The skull laying down on a 3 dimensional object after being placed there makes more sense than a sticker being placed on the end of the tape. Otherwise, I think it was nothing more than an optical illusion triggered by wanting to see something of importance. There’s a lot of that going around.
Yes Zuben, I can visualize what you’re saying. My grand daughter has stickers similar to those, they’re like a plastic bubble with sticky stuff on the back. I understand your theory too as to how the duct tape was indented with a shape similar to a heart.
IMO, this was an overzealous false finding by investigators who were trying to tie the card of stickers found near the remains to the duct tape itself. IIRC, there was also a Disney bag nearby?? Could the heart stickers come from that bag?
I’m just speculating of course but to use this damning theory in a murder trial, the State should want to find some “chemical-glue type substance” on the duct tape before submitting this as evidence that the perp stuck a heart on the duct tape as the coup de gras so to speak. IMO, it’s too damning to the defendant not to have indisputable proof which the State doesn’t have as proven by Lorrie Gottesman of the FBI.
JB the wood fence is to the right. The weathered marker I seen..seems to be
right at the spot they found her, which is a very short distance. As Zub said
…you can see where the men go in. You can see in some of them, where they go
in and look..and you can still see their image standing just inside.. right there.
I drove past the Anthony’s on my way in as I used the address for gps. The house
was lit up with lights..it was sad..VERY sad. There are a lot of thick brier woods there,
which is why I reviewed the videos to make sure I was accurate about the area.
At first I thought the marker was not in the exact spot..being so close.. But after
reviewing the video, it appears to be THE spot. I could have easily walked directly
to it. It is grown up some a little further back. I just found it so unbelievable if
that was the spot I was looking at minus the trees..HOW could have no-one seen it?
It does have a small slope where at some point the water would have run off. But
I see no way that that paticular area was under water!!!! Especially Aug 11,12,13.
Also if you watch the sheriff video..it appears and sounds as though he was going to say hurricane..(referencing to tropical storm faye.. but catches himself..and says earlier searches. In the other Sheriff Beary interview..he says it was flooded til recent drought.
However, no one makes reference to the drought we experienced “prior” to Faye..which
actually was not in Central Fl until Aug 20. Long after the LE and Kronk were there in Aug.
I don’t recall where I heard it. IIRC it was in an interview. Kronk says he said I called
you guys before about this..And they told him to shut up. Not to say anything. I will
see if I can find it.
D, no unfortunately I do not have the history of the transaction yet
It was the 9th before
I actually got it faxed out. They said approx 10 days. By 12/23 I get a response and it is
a transaction June 28th..made online , not at the store in July. Also they fax to your account # which is all screwed up. It was suppose to be simple. And they were suppose to email &send by mail. The June 28th,2008 I can look up my history online myself! Crazy. So I re faxed the info Monday Dec 27. now they say approx 2 weeks? So we shall see.
OOPS always do that. Sheriff video in beginning just before he says earlier searches
http://www.wftv.com/video/18256026/index.html
You’re right, NTS. I just pulled up Google earth where I had marked the spot by longitude and latitude given in the docs and measuring straight to the fence is just under 66 feet. Now, if the locater in GE is working correctly, it measures 32 feet from the edge of the pavement to Area A. I suspect GE isn’t quite accurate when you enter a desired longitude and latitude. This led me to do the other measurements, 60′ East then 17.5′ Southerly, just as they have marked on that topographical map. This puts Area A where the trees are further from the road and barely hiding it. If this measurement tool is correct and more accurate than the long. lat. tool, in Google earth, I don’t see how anyone walking the edge wouldn’t see her. There’s barely any shelter, looking at the image captured about 8 years ago, more accurate than the current view with so much cut away.
Snoop, I’m so glad you went there. So you’re saying it isn’t that steep in that area? That would fit with what Joe Jordon was saying at first. Being so close to the clear mowed area it is impossible if any searchers were in that area that they didn’t walk a few feet or less from her, if she was there. Also, with a clear path that could be walked on, it would tempt anyone to go in at least a few feet. No way a cadaver dog would not pick up something, even one with not the best track record. I am again reminded that the the body hunter dog went the opposite direction.
NTS, actually the fence is closer..I was going to address that and got side tracked.
Being there I say less than even 75 ft. I am not great with measurements but I just
described to someone here a distance, based on my recollection of how far away the
fence was. And I think it is not even 75 ft. I will be going back to the airport Thur.
I may go a little early so it is still light, so I may be able to get some pics of it now.
Zuben, Not reading all the comment yet..I will answer your question about steep. NO
it was not.I seen the fallen tree as well. Didn’t RK mention that? I just sent in my comment
to NTS, I am going to the airport again on Thur. I wont be stopping at my clients..but the
area is just a few minutes from the airport. I will try and go early..I have some free time that day..and take some pics and maybe some short video clips.
For your reading pleasure
Motion to preclude phantom heart http://www.wftv.com/pdf/26312095/detail.html
memorandum http://www.wftv.com/pdf/26312119/detail.html
and the search warrant to go after heart stickers in the Anthony home. http://www.wftv.com/pdf/26312179/detail.html
Were any of you aware that Judge Belvin Perry is the one that issued this warrant? Hmmm Now, would it be true that the search warrant was illegally obtained, in light of what it appears Ms Fontain said in her deposition, if she didn’t tell them there was residue in the perfect shape of a heart, as Melich is claiming in the warrant info??? Or is it a simple misunderstanding?
Zub guess our posts crossed. I was saying less than 75 ft., yes,considerably. And no
it was sooooooooo close to the road that I thought I was wrong LOL I went down to the dead end and turned around..I was like it has to be. Thats why I reviewed the videos just to make sure again LMAO because I am not believing it was so close and no one seen?????
Oh, that is next Thur. not tomorrow
Jb:IMO, this was an overzealous false finding by investigators who were trying to tie the card of stickers found near the remains to the duct tape itself.
I AGREE!
Actually, Snoop, Google Earth shows a log down, angled NW-SE, just on the East side of Area A and I’m pretty sure this is the same log that Kronk is talking about, also described in the LE report.
JB, I saved the image and just mailed it to you. Night all. Long day. I’ve been up since 4.
JB, My reference to LB had nothing to do with her representation. It had to do with the hoop law behind the document she is responsible for. Baez and Mason in interviews with the media claimed they had witnesses that could prove Caylee was not there or was put there when KC was in jail. Fast Forward: LB depo…..When asked to comment, Baez and Mason….”No Comment” and they did not look happy. If there would have been substance they would have fallen all over themselves for the media.
Snoop, Thanks for the update…sorry your having a time getting the info.
TY D’- Could you explain to me the hoop law? I wonder why ppl are questioning LB’s credibility because she happened to postpone her deposition. There are ppl who also pointed out that she “lawyered up” therefore her testimony is weak. This is why I pointed out that others have “lawyered up” too. That was my point but really I’ve never heard of the hoop law???
JB, Hoop Law being falsified documents. Her credibility went down hill not because she got an attorney in Florida but from people on her list that never searched the area.
Good Morning everyone,
JB, Kathy B exposed an searcher on LB’s doc that said she was with LB all day that day and they never went over to Suburban. I think this was a day before her Depo, the next day LB does not show up for Depo, so one could infer this is the reason why. Her current Lawyer at the time probably recommended an local Lawyer that knows Florida Law. This to me is a valid excuse to postpone your depo. She had now been exposed as an liar on the local news station wftv. That to me is all the hoopla surrounding LB. Later, her new Lawyer said that she had never been back to Suburban and wasn’t even aware of the exact spot Caylee was found.
All that being said, her description in the statement that was provided by the defense does indeed describe the correct area. The timing is what is in question, 4 hours, and she was already scheduled at Blanchard Park at 8am. Most majority think she made up the whole thing. But wait, there is more, JJ claims that she called him and wanted him to talk to the defense, and said that she went on searches with him. He says he does not remember her at all and that he thinks she provided a falsified document with his name on it.
She put on her Tes doc that she was with the dept of fish and game. JJ says she claimed to be Kentucky law enforcement. IIRC I have read that Dept of fish and game is part of Federal Law Enforcement. It is alleged that she is friends with the Anthony’s .
On the one hand you would think the defense would not look so grim when Kathy B exposed this story, but on the other hand, you would think that SAO would release her depo right away if it helped them. So why would an educated person make up such a big lie that could easily be exposed by witnesses? My guess is that she probably didn’t lie, that the hoopla was all caused by Kathy B and she was simply postponing her depo. It should be noted that some of the other people on LB’s Blanchard Park Tes Doc, are on the States witness list now. MOO
ZubenElSchemali
December 29, 2010 at 7:17 pm
There is way too much listed in the warrant to single out the heart sticker. Not everything listed in warrants make it to court on the other hand LE often finds extra things in their searches that do. I don’t see the residue issue making it in because there is no evidence to test but I do see the sticker and anything else within immediate proximity being allowed. I would think that anything found in the radius of the last bone would be crime scene evidence.
Going back to an earlier discussion: In the warrant it is claimed that on July 16th KC was shown a photo array of Zenaida from the LE DAVID system and denied that the Zanny, from the civil suit, was not the one…hence the lawsuit. The lie was perpetuated by CA in the media and by KC by omission when it could have been cleared up by a statement from her attorneys. Morgan & Morgan are not the ideal dream team but the facts they provided to a court of law were enough for the court to grant the civil suit.
Omission could be KC’s middle name. How many times was she asked on the 15th and 16th of July if she wanted to change any of her written or oral interviews—-several. She also claimed she was sticking to her story. Since then there have been many trying to read between the lines based upon the family and it’s hidden meanings. No one can take that away but I’m sure Baez will try in a motion.
Phantom residue……now you see it now you don’t. Lab work is not perfect and evidence does get destroyed from time to time, like Dr Lee and the fingernail. Baez repeats the word “phantom” a few times in his motion. I really would like him to address the “phantom” Zanny, Jeff and the ever so lovely Juliet.
NTS,
I think I remember that woman?? I mentioned her name on a post somewhere. As I recall, LB did what quite a few other searchers hanging around Suburban with Tim Miller’s TES… She went looking on her own just like Kronk, Keith Wms, Gale St. John and 100s of others who were snooping in that wooded area, right? lol BTW, Zuben sent me a very good diagram showing just how close Area A is to the street. Unfortunately, I haven’t figured out how to post it on the blog.
Now Joe Jordan? I have to laugh when I think of him bringing a tape recorder to a deposition. O.M.G.
What was his intention? Was it to sell it to a tabloid? Or did he really think it would help the prosecution? That just didn’t make sense. IMO, between Laura Buchanan and Joe Jordan, I would say Joe Jordon is the seedy one because he was so sneaky which then makes him less credible. Laura Buchanan is a member of LE. That should count for something. But actually, I’m looking forward to LB’s testimony. It must be good for Casey or WFTV wouldn’t have been called in, to malign her.
Question – Does the word hoopla = hoop law? I’m fascinated by words and their origins.
Hoop-Law=Play on words…
In relation to FBI evidence I think you should give this a quick read. The man in the Chandra Levy case was convicted on the testimony of an inmate. NO Evidence! Goes to show how imperfect life really is.
http://www.aolnews.com/2010/11/04/no-dna-evidence-linking-suspect-to-chandra-levy-court-told/
D, I just went back and read that part of the search warrant affidavit and don’t understand what you are saying. It says that he pointed out a picture of the ZG he had just spoken with and Casey said she didn’t recognize her so how could that lead to a civil suit?
My point about the warrant is that he used the info about the heart sticker “residue” to get permission to search the house for stickers. If the FBI agent didn’t tell him there was scientific basis for believing a heart sticker had been on that tape he had no legal basis for including it and asking Perry to give him the warrant.
I just want to throw this in about the warrant. The two csi’s in the evidence garage had already examined duct tape on the gas can back in early August 08. Yuri mentions in his report that one of the Csi’s from the evidence garage were already at the scene and called him and told him it was a small child. I believe Yuri would have gotten the warrant anyway based on the duct tape evidence. By putting in the phantom heart shape residue that was placed there intentionally, he was able to expand into the house more. IMO
NTS, I believe they would have been able to search everywhere on the property, just looking for duct tape, if that is what they asked for. Their list included any and all arts and craft materials including stickers and scrap booking materials, all of Casey’s shoes and all the items George said he say on Caylee. Has anyone noticed if they collected any or each item George said she left with that day, pink top, blue denim skirt or skort, white shoes, white sunglasses, back pack with monkey? I would expect there to by multiple pink tops and maybe even denim skirts, if it was a favorite item. I wouldn’t expect to find multiple sunglasses or back pack with same design though. Then of course, there is the question as to how good a memory George has for this type of detail.
The warrant I linked above is the Dec. 20 warrant. If they saw heart stickers while searching for what they had permission to take on Dec. 11, that would explain why the new warrant request. They may have thought, oh, maybe a chance to get some solid evidence since we came up empty on the first try. Just my opinion, of course. But it is a big stretch of the imagination to think that she would stick a heart on the end of the duct tape.
Zub,Lead to a civil suit…absolutely! KC or her attorneys from the very beginning could have said this was not the Zenaida…but they did not….it’s the whole premise for that case. It was not until the depos taken by Morgan that this was not the Zenaida and no time before.
Forgive me for not giving the link to what I was reading. There was so much more.
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/26312179/detail.html
D, I’m still confused how you can say that. Maybe I’ve had too long and complicated day and am just not understanding something. In the very first doc dump Casey tells Melich she did not know that ZG, did not recognize her photograph. So, on July16 she made a statement that the ZG filing a civil suit is not the ZG she left Caylee with. Her attorney has no need to issue a statement on her behalf, there was already a statement memorialized by LE. How does equate to grounds for ZG filing a civil suit?
Here comes the air sample test. In the link the defense mentions some of the things that Dr Vass admits. Very interesting.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/68137874/20101229-Defense-Motion-to-Exclude-Unreliable-Evidence
Without the standards or without any protocols , quality assurance, or formulas, we are left to just trust Dr Vass. Dr Vass stands alone in this unknown field, how does Kc face her accusser when he won’t even give up his formula. I do not understand for the life of me why SA Jeff A would want to risk someones life based on something he knows has not stood the test from the science community. I can’t wait to see his response.
I watched a news special one night on people that smelled peoples underarms for a living. They made about 35000.00 a year. They would do a sniff test for the deoderant companies. We do not even have a device to sniff peoples underarms, let alone a device to sniff human decomposition. Because humans are so much like animals and food, (by the way, you are what you eat) , this experimental science will probably stay in its youth for years to come. IMO
Thanks, NTS. I think he ought to patent the fly leash. I’d like to keep them under control. Now, how interesting is this…The FBI is the agency funding them and refusing to share the secret proprietary database. Hmmm, sounds like the makings of justice…beginning with a capital IN.
Today we are relying on the Vass o meter , death by youtube, and circumstantial evidence after the aleged inccident, to prove someone commited a crime that we don’t even know happened. Thomas Jefferson is surely rolling over in his grave. IMO
Sorry about the spelling. I thought I was on OS. lol
So it is the FBI that won’t give up the formula? That is not good. That is Federal, not just Florida. That puts it in my backyard. I wonder if this case could end up in the Supreme Court because of it.
I am ok with our FBI funding experimental science of course, but not to be involved in our courts. Especially in this case in particular. That sounds like a conflict of interest. Full disclosure is the only way to go. IMO
LOL, That’s ok NTS..I get it. I’m sure Thomas Jefferson is rolling over in his grave. It’s hard to imagine, in a case where a homicide cannot be proven much less to charge a person with. That I don’t get.
If this took place in the 1800′s and someone found a child’s body but they couldn’t prove how this child died would they still have charged her mother with murder?
Nts and JB….Google touch DNA….it was used for the first time in a court of law in 2010. Mind you it was used outside of court in the Ramsey case in more of an investigative tool. So please….there is much that is considered junk science until it meets and passes the Frye test. To hold an opinion when one is not an expert is dangerous. It implies that we know more than the people that have put their life into forensic work.
JB, Fortunately it is not the 1800″s. We had little to work with then. Finger prints were witch science when they first talked about them. Even though it’s soon to be 2011 the science is not as perfect as we would like it to be. People in the 1800′s were charged and convicted so does that mean we stop today? It ‘s based on what we know. I’m not saying it’s the best but it’s all we have to date. Living in real time with real facts is a bitch. Sorting all this out could give anyone an attitude or headache. To be God like is to be fair but I don’t see this on the web….too many opinions….too many people that think they are right….only a court of law and a jury is going to tell you what is right. Either way someone will find fault………
D: I think there is a lot of science that can be used as an investigative tool, but not for the courts. I honor all scientist including Dr Vass for their hard work. I have never been able to accomplish so much in my lifetime. I tip my hat to the man and he should go down in history as an great contributer to all walks of mankind. That being said, our courts are not a laboratory. I feel the same way about touch dna. It is new to me and I want opinions from the scientific community. Has it stood the test? The defense is still in investigative mode and should be able to use it to investigate. I do not know why the State did not have these test done. Once the investigative tool has discovered something, it needs to be put to the Frye test. I agree.
I must admit that it is Dr Vass email where he said ” I have some good news for ya” that raised my hinky meter in the first place. I am very concerned that these scientist are paid to write a paper to fit someone else’s theory and are not objective in anyway. How do we find neutral ground? How do we know if Dr Vass or Dr Haskell was aware that the trash bag was in an dumpster for several hours? Garbage in Garbage out. Where is the full disclosure?
I am interested in JA response because I want to know more. I want to hear someone who is instrumental in arguing that side of the Science. How can the courts appove of science that is not tested? If Judge Perry approves such science, does that make the science valid? and why? he is not a scientist. Would that not set precedence for the state to come up with all kind of gadgets to prove their case?
I am afraid that Judge Perry is just going to look at JB and say, you have not proven to the court that this science is unreliable and therefore the court denies your motion and the smell device and its findings will be allowed. Because JB put in the motion, it is automatically his job to disprove the science, when it should really be the States job to prove the science is reliable. IMO
Nts and JB….Google touch DNA….it was used for the first time in a court of law in 2010??
Damaged, I think that’s incorrect. It was used to exonerate a young man who was in prison for years. I’ll brb.
D’ are you referring to the Tim Masters case? That was sent to Eikelenboom? The same expert Jose Baez is using for Casey? Please provide a link because I thought he was cleared in 2007 because of touch DNA.
Help..lol
Damadgpets said:
JB, Fortunately it is not the 1800″s. We had little to work with then. Finger prints were witch science when they first talked about them. Even though it’s soon to be 2011 the science is not as perfect as we would like it to be. People in the 1800′s were charged and convicted so does that mean we stop today? It ‘s based on what we know. I’m not saying it’s the best but it’s all we have to date. Living in real time with real facts is a bitch. Sorting all this out could give anyone an attitude or headache. To be God like is to be fair but I don’t see this on the web….too many opinions….too many people that think they are right….only a court of law and a jury is going to tell you what is right. Either way someone will find fault………
—————-
D’ – That is exactly my point. We don’t have any of these factors in THIS Case in 2010…so does that mean we’re going backwards? My point is, in the 1800s we didn’t have this science but we do now and STILL there’s no fingerprints or DNA or eye witness.
So what do we charged Casey with? Lying? IDK..but the State has yet to produce one piece of physical evidence in this case and it’s not because we don’t have the science to find it.
I suppose it’s hard to understand my thinking because I’m assuming too much. I’m assuming everyone is aware of lack of evidence. I’m aware, other’s have been convicted on less, no body, etc. etc. The Peterson’s case — single hair..But is that a good thing in 2010? Should we be proud?
Sorry for confusing everyone.
Since it seems like a slow day in the realm of the upcoming trial of Casey Anthony, I decided to address Mr. Bullstopper’s personal attack on me and what I believe true or possible. He does have his own blog but chose to come here to discredit me and my readers. I’m sure it will be a waste of my time because Mr. Bullstopper speaks with forked tongue. Contradicts his own statements.
So here goes…
Submitted on 2010/12/28 at 1:44 pm
This is perhaps the most ridiculous of a long series of ludicrous articles you have posted.
My initial impression: Most disrespectable. This is how he comes to my blog? Bullstopper..I have no interest in your “run of the mill” blog. There’s nothing at your blog that I find worth reading. No offense to your readers, but “different strokes for different folks”
The crux of the matter for you seems to be Kronk was never investigated by police. How do you know this? What proof do you have? Jose Baez is not going to receive investigative details of anyone other than Casey Anthony from discovery. The prosecution does not have prove who was investigated other than Casey Anthony.
How do I know this? I know this because I’ve yet to see a document to support LE DID investigate Mr. Kronk. As a citizen of the USA, it’s my right to have an opinion. You are correct. Jose Baez had to do his own investigation. My opinion is based on his discovery and the negative publicity myself and countless other people have read about him. In his case, I choose to believe what’s been reported and what’s been said about him by his own family, friends and police reports. Therefore Jose Baez has every right to investigate him and so do I. So sue me.
I am sure they also investigated a large number of other people including George, Cindy, Lee, the Grunds, Tony Lazarro, Ricardo Morales, Zenedia Gonzalez, just to name a few. Have you seen in discovery any of those investigative details other than those which directly disprove Casey Anthony’s deceitful statements ?
It’s your choice to BELIEVE LE investigated these people. I choose not to believe it and if they did, I MAY choose to comment on them as well. Is that a problem Mr. BSS? Right, I didn’t think so.
The assertion law enforcement conspired to frame Casey Anthony and failed to investigate Roy Kronk is dishonest and prejudicial.
The assertion? I don’t think anyone has asserted anything about Casey being framed by LE. Considering the fact that I am no more than “John Q. Public” and not part of the judicial process..HELLO, are you there? I have a right to state my opinion on any public forum I desire.
NEXT…
Submitted on 2010/12/28 at 1:55 pm
What is the legal point, where is the legal gain, from using Kronk, who everyone agrees including the people on this forum did not murder Caylee Anthony, to illustrate the defense proposition that law enforcement did not investigate all suspects?
Here’s where Mr. BSS proves his ignorance in this case and lack of basic common sense. What’s the legal gain?? LOL..The legal gain is “IF” RK went to Area A on at least 3 previous occasions and NO ONE can verify his finding then that makes him a weirdo. BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW, you included that he did on Dec 11th.
This is why Jose Baez needs to question all of the TES searchers who searched this area to be sure they didn’t see anything suspicious in Area A. Casey’s defense team would like to know if any of the official searchers of TES saw this metallic bag that Kronk pointed out to Sgt. Cain. Forgive me, but I choose NOT to explain anymore because it’s so elementary school. You’ll just have read the documents for yourself and figure it out. It shouldn’t be too hard, Jose Baez did right? LOL, and I know you THINK you’re a lot smarter than him. Prove it.
Rather than make law enforcement look like buffoons, does this example not demonstrate how quickly and efficiently law enforcement was able to clear Mr. Kronk from the assorted red herrings which plague this case? Once the police determined Mr. Kronk was not involved, did they really need to continue to waste tax dollars on investigating a man we all agree is not involved in the death of Caylee Anthony as Jose Baez wants to suggest? Where is the failure on the part of the police?
No, this does not demonstrate how quickly and efficiently LE was able to clear Roy Kronk. I have NO PROOF that LE did clear RK, remember? There’s BSS’s forked tongue again. Another contradiction by Mr. BSS.
Who’s “they”? Do you mean Casey Anthony’s defense team? Why are you talking about money? Since when does money have anything to do with justice? Simple answer: It is Jose Baez’s duty as an attorney to investigate any possibilities to raise reasonable doubt in order to get an acquittal for his client. You need to go back to school and learn why we have defense attorneys in the United States in the first place. Without them WE wouldn’t live in a free country…Hello, are you still there?
You ask “where is the failure on the part of the police?” Well…IF they had properly cleared Area A as they should have then LE would have found Caylee’s remains without the help of Roy Kronk or any other civilian. That’s my opinion by the way, if you don’t like it..Too bad.
Next..
Submitted on 2010/12/28 at 2:08 pm
“Factor #5 is the most valuable for the Defense. If the Defense believes in LE, doesn’t that seem odd that someone would find her in August and NOT in September, October or November?”
How is this valuable for anyone, including the defense?
Who found her in August? No one. Kronk called because from the street he saw a bag. From the street… a bag, not a body. No one found a body until Kronk picked up a bag and her skull rolled out.
Let’s review. Who found Caylee in August? No one.
What are the chances if no one found her in August, no one found her in September, October, and November? 100% because she was found in December.
If you need to invent fictions like “someone would find her in August”, then your premise and conclusions are false.
This was the silliest inane comment anyone has left on my blog!! I don’t even no where to start with this drivel. You would have to start from Aug 11th, look into where TES searchers were in late Aug and Sept. Then you’d have to read ALL of RK’s interviews. If he thinks I have time to explain all of this to a dumbass like him then he’s sadly mistaken. I have never come across such idiotic questions. I think what’s important to BSS is that he wants to think he’s stumped me..So be it. I’ve been baited before..Sorry Bullstopper, but your BULL stops here.
Why is Jose Baez wasting tax dollars and investigative hours interviewing Mr. Kronk’s relatives if Jose Baez does not believe Mr. Kronk murdered Caylee?
ahhh…because Kronk falsely reported finding stolen firearms in Tennessee that were not there when LE arrived. See thejbmission.wordpress.com for more details about Roy Kronk
JB, I got 1 one word for ya,
BRAVO !!
lmao
Local prosecutors, law enforcement and the victim’s family believe that “touch DNA” analysis provides the best possibility of developing a DNA profile. Specifically, they argue that touch DNA specialists at Independent Forensic Services provide the best possibility of yielding case critical information. While other forensic laboratories work with this analysis, Independent Forensic Services has over 20 years experience in both locating and recovering biological traces, and has pioneered work with touch DNA since 1997.
While Independent Forensic Services, a Dutch lab, is not American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors Laboratory Accreditation Board (ASCLD LAB) accredited, its full ISO 17025 accreditation has been verified. Moreover, its work has been used in at least two trials before US courts and on numerous occasions in international courts.
This is in a letter US Senator Charles Schumer is writing to the HEALTH DEPARTMENT
who was holding this up. Prosecutors, state police and county investigators are all pushing for the new test, but the Department of Health has so far refused to sign off, thereby preventing this horrific crime from being more thoroughly investigated. Schumer is urging the New York Department of Health to allow the investigation to go forward so that justice may be served and the O’Connell family may finally receive closure after 25 years
http://www.cnycentral.com/news/story.aspx?list=190258&id=427374
Sorry Jb LOL what a mess I made. It is waaay past bedtime. i posted in the wrong place,
then copy and pasted in the wrong place again.
D having brought up the missing people KC has talked about, got me going in that direction again Wed eve. I went in to the[RR] , [JF]facebooks, my space. Of course JF’s has been on private. But RR has not. I went in Wed night to her facebook and looked at tons of photos videos etc..then to her myspace photos videos..and twitter. Tonight I go back and can only see her homepage on facebook. No photos. And the myspace is now completely private. Very strange, only 1 day later??
There were a lot of photos with a JF.and videos taken by Jen. So I wonder
if they are close friends. What if they switched up the names intentionally? Because if
not for that girl from MI writing LE about their pages..no one knew. It is strange.
Anyway, I also had some pics that I had down loaded way back. I think they were from
her old photo bucket account..but not sure. I just remembered this one that has on a Fridays
uniform. But I don’t know who she is. That is why I went to Rosa’s facebook to see if same.
But I down loaded the pic of girl with Friday’s uniform and also Raquel Rosa..then 2 more pics..if any of you know who they are please let me know. TIA
I used Flickr for the picture link..hope it works:)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57674527@N05/
http://www.facebook.com/rrosa0320?sk=info
If the flickr does not work maybe this will..If not I don’t know how to do or email you.
http://www.photoworks.com/slideshow/album/104102796?slideshow=true
One more try..what a mess just to get a link to pics
http://hs-thumb10.photoworks.com/render/?src=http%3A//wsimage.webshots.com/126526/%7B7a318c49-009c-43f2-a570-93486a512348%7D.jpg&h=640&w=640&rotate=0
http://hs-thumb17.photoworks.com/render/?src=http%3A//wsimage.webshots.com/126477/%7B907f6762-1130-44f4-be9c-03120fc94249%7D.jpg&h=640&w=640&rotate=0
http://hs-thumb18.photoworks.com/render/?src=http%3A//wsimage.webshots.com/123561/%7B3b9b3db0-58ac-4e22-8b12-966daea44e01%7D.jpg&h=640&w=640&rotate=0
http://hs-thumb12.photoworks.com/render/?src=http%3A//wsimage.webshots.com/125245/%7Bfe618bea-6cf5-46da-bb2f-642bb2fefbd5%7D.jpg&h=640&w=640&rotate=0
Hi Snoop. I don’t know who some are but this page says the last linked pic is Jeremy M, friend of Lee’s from school. http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3220.20
Snoop, I think it is feasible that Casey reversed their surnames. RR went to Colonial HS, graduated Valencia College in 09. She lives in Orlando, works in Cassleberry, as of Sept, 10, is from Brooklyn, born March 20, the day after Casey. On twitter she asks the question, curly or straight and I wonder if the two pics you linked to might be the same girl. Do they look the same to you? She mentions loosing weight. Picture her with a few pounds, hair curly and combed back. The lips look right to me but I could be wrong. One is full frontal, the other a side view mostly so its hard to tell. I can’t access her friends so I wouldn’t want to say this person is in Casey’s circle. She does use the word random, like she does though.
PS: Cast Iron Tatoos follows her tweets. OK, enough, I have a client patiently waiting for me. Have a good one.
Zub, Curly or straight???
Hmmmm, remember Casey saying that she got that hair straightner from Zani,
(or is that what you were pointing out?) lol
I thought it was strange, very strange that Casey owned a hair straightner, it is obvious Casey would have NO use for it.
She got it from somewhere and I highly doubt she bought it.
Zub, have only a minute as well..Yes, they do look like possibly the same person. The Friday’s girl also has similarities as younger I think..but hard to tell. I put them side by side. She works for an obgyn collections.
What is REALLY STRANGE is Wed. night I had the full run of both her Facebook and My space and twitter.
There were so many pics and videos, I got to tired to review any more. The My space said
similar profile as well., with tons of pics, videos. Now the next day it is set to private! I did
go through some of her friends Wed. But more of her photos videos. She has a lot of NY pics as well as Fl. The Navarro she is twitting with, works out at disney i believe in the
restaurants. Didn’t we have some Navarro info when we were searching Zenaidas?
I am aware that there are some new things about facebook I believe where you can see
who is observing. Can’t remember. I have Facebook and I believe they offered me a couple months ago to use it..but also it reveals who you are if you go in to someones facebook. I did not sign up for. But she may have?
The straight curly hair caught me too.
Back to work..Be back latr
Gee—– I thought JB stands for “Just Brilliant”!
Thank you Hazaka but if BSS actually took time to read my blog he would know what “JB” stands for. Just proves the point, he does not comprehend what he DOESN’T read. Oxymoron? LOL
OK, who is the bull s~er accusing people here of lying and then plastering it in our faces. I take offense at that. But, since it is BS, it isn’t even worth the time it took me to type this out. I certainly won’t read his blog. He contradicted himself so badly here I probably couldn’t sort out fact from fiction, if I tried. Anyway…
I want to be very careful not to make too much of these girls, since we don’t know if they even know Casey and we all know what a mess one’s life can become by being mentioned in connection to CA. That is why I didn’t use her whole name. We do need to be careful so people don’t misunderstand. Nazario is the name that came up, not Navarro. That was one of the married names of Morgan’s buddy. I couldn’t see the myspace but did see the main page on facebook and her tweets. In October she talked about using a flat iron. That being said, I was reminded that we’ve seen this info come up in the docs. Here’s a link: http://www.cfnews13.com/static/articles/images/documents/Binder23221-23466-1102Part2.pdf Start about page 15. I would assume they followed up further and talked to her but who knows.
——————– ——————-
Good point Zuben on BOTH accounts.
JB, I think you are misunderstanding about Touch DNA. The article below shows the first judge to authorize it’s use. Past use like the Ramsey case, it was used as an investigative tool. Why is it so easy to believe in this relatively new science and yet so hard to
believe in the Body Farm Analysis that been around 5 times longer? I guess it’s in what we choose to believe. The Frye test will let us know for sure.
http://newyorkcriminallawyersblog.com/2010/02/ny-judges-first-to-allow-touch-dna.html
The flood of motions to suppress evidence has started or let the games begin. I believe in Judge Perry’s knowledge and the future outlook of the appeals process. If we could take emotion out of this we might learn something about the law…..
haha..They’re Hollering at the Moon!! Good!!
http://hs-thumb18.photoworks.com/render/?src=http%3A//wsimage.webshots.com/123561/%7B3b9b3db0-58ac-4e22-8b12-966daea44e01%7D.jpg&h=640&w=640&rotate=0
Wow Snoop!! Who is this girl with the curly hair w/Casey? I don’t recall seeing this before.
bull makes a lot of valid points. maybe you should listen to him. i read yours and his. you came out as childish and immature, he came out as knowing what he’s talking about. jmo
Zub, Curly or straight???
IndyGal says:
Hmmmm, remember Casey saying that she got that hair straightner from Zani,
(or is that what you were pointing out?) lol
I thought it was strange, very strange that Casey owned a hair straightner, it is obvious Casey would have NO use for it.
She got it from somewhere and I highly doubt she bought it.
===================
IndyGal,
Ditto! I was thinking the same thing.
Hello Rose. You might want to scroll up to one of my earlier comments where I point out some discrepancies in the Bull post. Here, I’ll save you the trouble, by reposting my comment with a couple of his statements and the I will not address him or his comments again unless he actually stops the bull. I was quite willing to welcome him into our conversation but he is very rude and makes some very serious accusations. Of course this is JBs blog and she must do as she sees fit to protect the integrity of the blog. No one is slandering Kronk. Any statement of fact is not considered slander. Stating what has been reported or is found within official documents can never be considered slander.
ZubenElSchemali
December 28, 2010 at 3:55 pm
bullstopper
December 28, 2010 at 2:03 pm
…Are you saying Kronk planted the snake which kept the deputy out of the water?
For the record, on the third call, with Kronk standing right there, they found the body.
Hello, BullStopper, and welcome to THE site where everyone is expected and encouraged to share their differing opinions in a respectful way. I think you haven’t read the docs closely enough, if I may be so bold. The snake was dead and it had already been taken away and put in Kronk’s co-worker’s freezer by the time Cain came on scene in August. Which record supports your saying they found the body with Kronk standing right there? You then go on to say,
Who found her in August? No one. Kronk called because from the street he saw a bag. From the street… a bag, not a body. No one found a body until Kronk picked up a bag and her skull rolled out.
But the problem here is, it is contradicting what you had just said. Also, if you read his call transcripts and his interviews you will see that he was in the woods, not in the street when he claims he saw her. It was more than a metallic silver bag, it was a white round object that he thought was a little skull, not in the bag, out where he could see it. Also, he changed his story about the skull rolling out at the insistence of LE. It became, “lifted the bag” with his stick and saw it.
damagdpets,
You still haven’t addressed the Timothy Masters case. I just found another article on him.
He’s now won 1.4 million dollar lawsuit. It was Touch DNA that exonerated him. I’m not saying Touch DNA isn’t a new science, relatively speaking it is. I agree with you there.
But since Judge Perry is allowing Touch DNA testing, I think he’s going to allow it.
JMO
i dont see the discrepancies. but truthfully its hard to take anyone seriously when they act in a childish manner. it is her/his blog, i guess i expected the owner to act like a grown up not revert back to acting like a grade school bully (this comment is directed to JB just to be clear) what serious accusations did he make? or did he just disagree with your opinion? that seems to be the problem with most of these sites, if you have a different opinion, you are ridiculed or banned. whatever happened to spirited debate? its not here. nor is it on a lot of other sites. i dont see the point of having a blog with readers that only agree with you, unless you are just wanting your ego stroked.
while kronk’s past has some questionable points (if the ex wives are reliable) the fact is casey lied so all JBs other points that he/she pointed out in his/her article are mute.
Thank you Zuben for pointing out the inconsistencies coming from the BSS.
I just knew I could push his button and Voila! New post..LOL Too easy. And one very obvious follower gives him a pat on the back.
It’s always nice to know who your adversaries are so we can act accordingly.
“Too Ignore or Not to Ignore”? That is the question.
rose
—————-
“A rose by any other name would smell as sweet” ……… but …. you don’t smell sweet ….and what’s your “other” name. Also, what is your point?
i see the attacks have begun. you have just proven my point. sad
my other name? i have no other name. whats your other name? sit back from your computer for a moment and think, maybe my point will come to you.
rose,
Good point. Typically, I enjoy a spirited debate in the proper setting. On my site, some facts are a given and are not debatable such as Kronk’s reports to the TipLine in August.
bullstopper wants to argue that he didn’t find the remains in August, he only found a bag.
I apologize but there’s no way, I’m going to change our verbage to suit bullstopper.
I haven’t gone to his site to change certain “givens” on his site or the verbage he uses in discussions there.
I welcome anyone as long as we can get pass Kronk and his inconsistent story he gave to LE. If we can’t do that, I don’t think bullstopper will add much to my blogsite. On some subjects, we just have to agree in order to keep discussion on topic.
Another problem with bullstopper, in his first comment here, he insulted me. Not cool. I do not allow any name calling here or negative adjectives maligning someone as a person.
Example: “This is perhaps the most ridiculous of a long series of ludicrous articles you have posted.” He made no introduction. He was just rude.
I don’t write articles to please bullstopper. What you find here are my thoughts and thoughts of my readers. We don’t always agree but we never stoop to insults.
I hope this explains it.
Happy New Year rose!
while i agree about name calling and the childishness of it, i do believe you called him names also. and i’m assuming you agree with me that 2 wrongs dont make a right. but you went there also. name calling gets no one anywhere. i just think someone needs to take the high road. while we dont agree on kronk or probably jose baez, i think a spirted debate can still take place. but i will not stay here and be berated for having a different view from your readers. you are right, it is your blog. so i think you are responsible for the nastiness your bloggers post. you took care of one of the “nasty” blogger. was that only because he disagreed with you? the nasty comments only deter from the debate on here.
Rose —- shloshana … what a lovely name — why have you shown up her to berate the blog owner???
sorry– typo — Shoshana….
i have no clue what you are talking about. what is a shoshana? if its a person, and you think i’m that person, why dont you ask JB if i’m her? i’m sure he/she can tell you that the email addresses dont match.
i’m not berating the blog owner, just pointing out certain things she’s said. isnt this what a blog is for? or do you think pointing out inconsistencies is berating? i’m sure this blog is big on pointing out inconsistencies of this case. or is the only people who can use that technique are the ones who agree with your point of view?
JB, The link I gave you preceded the the masters case, in a court of law.
JB, Zub, Snoop, Hazaka……..
Happy New Years!!!!! I wish all good health and prosperity to you and family!!
ooops, I’m so sorry Damadg. I was sure we had discussed Masters before and I didn’t want to leave him out of the equation.
And to you Damagd..I Wish You and Your Family a Very Happy & Prosperous 2011!!
Rose, there has been quite a bit of spirited debate here and not everyone agrees on every point. Many of us are still waiting for the whole picture to decide about certain things, which I think is quite reasonable. We are considering the facts and possible scenario. JB seems to tolerate anything said with respect and dignity. She is the type that can’t be pushed beyond a certain point though. She reminds me a little of a bull. You can push her so far without consequence but at a certain point, watch out, she’s been pushed too far.
Name calling and insults is where she draws the line. Now, if BullS has his own blog I don’t know why he’d come here to take issue with the subject matter. If there was nothing out of the ordinary about Kronk and his many calls, the defense wouldn’t have questioned it and there would be nothing for us to discuss regarding Kronk and his stories. I believe she has banned a few people. They were completely out of line, all sorts of off the wall accusatios, calling names, basically trying to pick a fight. That isn’t what we’re here for.
Hazaka is telling you that Rose is a beautiful name. Shoshana is the original Hebrew form of Susanna or Susan. It means lily of flower.
Damagdpets, I think there is quite a bit of difference between touch DNA and the sniffer test. The former bears no secret formula, is tested, approved and accepted as standard science. The latter is just the opposite at this point. Now, if they are willing to let go of their claim to secret proprietary information, procedures, standards, etc, and alow others to test the validity of their claim, it will pass the fry test. But no way it will or should, as long as they are holding patent rights through secrecy. I suspect it is about money, being able to have the one and only, then get paid by every law enforcement agency out there to sniff their evidence. There just isn’t room on Ms Justices scale pans for a secret test. If it is valid and has integrity, they don’t need to worry about protecting their secret anyway. Ms Justice wears a blindfold just for them.
Have a safe and prosperous New Year everyone.
To Zuben, Damagdpets, Snoop, Hazaka, IndyGal, Comment and All of the other Regulars and Irregulars I missed.
Happy New Year!!
We’ll get to May 2011 one way or another. Thank you everyone for your contributions here. No matter the outcome of this case, I know I’ve met some smart, insightful true believers in justice who have literally left no stone unturned investigating this intriguing, yet heart breaking case. You have given me hope that not all is lost. There are still people in the World who are watching very carefully of what takes place in our judicial system. It’s great to know I am not alone. Thank you, Thank you!
I want to bring in the New year with lots of Love and Joy, Truth and Justice no matter where it leads. My Mantra for 2011 is “No one is Poor if they have Hope” With hope we are rich.
Zuben — yes…… Shoshana IS a beautiful name…. besides Susana … it is also Rose —-
Hazaka is telling you that Rose is a beautiful name. Shoshana is the original Hebrew form of Susanna or Susan. It means lily of flower.
Zub, I understand about being cautious of implicating anyone as being personally involved
with KC. But as in any other of our searches for missing people KC mentioned or email addresess like Franck, Zenaida, and others. We have speculated that this may be a person KC was referring to. Whether, they were actually involved in her life in the way she implied or not.
These people continue to get mentioned in posts here as fictional characters. To know if they do exist, whether they were just acquaintances, or more. And that is all I was doing here.
I am aware of the Docs from the girl in Mi that were released who was the one who found these names, facebooks, or my space. LE put that out there…and no follow up that I seen. The other photos were photos I picked up eons ago from somewhere. Which I believe is from photo bucket pics of KC’s. I can’t recall. I am curious about the people in these pictures and there names.
I am curious
Rose —- just so you know ……….. שושנה or ורדThat would be Vered or Shoshana ————–beautiful name…
To All…Happy New Year!!! May your new year be blessed with health, success, and prosperity.
May you hearts be light, full of laughter, and blessed with the spirit of life.. that we have all
have been so graciously given. May you share your wisdom and God given gifts with others.
And may your goodness come back to you in plenty!
JB ____You have given me hope that not all is lost. There are still people in the World who are watching very carefully of what takes place in our judicial system. It’s great to know I am not alone. Thank you, Thank you!
DITTO!!!!!!! THANK YOU FOR THIS BLOG THAT TOOK ME “A VERY LONG TIME ” TO FIND!
Thank you all for sharing..and although we are few..We are plenty together!
May there be great and happy days in the coming New Year for all.
We’ll start a countdown ’til the Casey Anthony trial starts in May 2011.
I guess everything has been covered but is it all truth without a doubt.
Zub, The propriety thing bothers me a lot. The more science we have the better to have an honest outcome. I am hoping that more will come in the Frye Test. Honestly I can see what might have been thought of finger prints over 100 years ago. I believe in the technology that man keeps bring to the forefront. I have great hopes that the science will convict or exonerate people charged with crimes.
Just a thought: Until the the early 1900′s diabetics died early and we didn’t have the antibiotics that do so much today. The advancements in our life time have been exponential.
Any science that can promote guilt or innocents and or provide a better quality of life….I’m all over that! I will not scorn the idea as much as I will embrace the accomplishment of many years work. To not look at things with an open mind stunts my deductive reasoning and growth. I may be old but not that old that I give into my learned behavior. Because of
great theories…greater things are on there way.
if she draws the line at name calling why did she go to his site and call him a name and insult him? hypocritical if you ask me. like i said 2 wrongs dont make a right.
Snoop, I agree. Their names were made public by the discovery docs. I just wanted to limit how much we publish the name, which is why I used initials. It really makes it hard to know who we are talking about if we have to do that too much though. You are also right that the fact that they exist cancels the possibility they are simply fiction, a figment of Casey’s imagination.
I have spent a great deal of time pondering the possible reason why our comments, JB’s blog articles brings such strong and forceful energy so abruptly in waves. Why is it that simply pointing out contradictions, things that are missing, things that just don’t make logical sense cause such strong emotion and upheaval? Why does what we say seem to threaten people? We are not more than concerned citizens, wanting justice for a beautiful little girl, where ever that leads, yes, even if it leads away from LE”s popular vote and will.
Damagdpets, a few times now, you have said that you hope we can all accept what ever verdict the trial brings, accepting it as truth and justice. I can’t say that I will automatically accept it as truth, only time will tell. But to blindly say, yes, I will accept it as truth and justice, would be a slap in the face to all those that have been killed or barely escaped death or life imprisonment, being wrongfully and sometimes willfully and blatantly falsely accused and incarcerated. Justice is all to often not the outcome. When the success rate reaches 100% and the false convictions are 0, then my answer will be yes before trial’s end.
JB, is there some way you can delete that trackback pingback thing at the bottom I keep having to scroll past to post a comment after I read the latest? That is how I knew the BSer was saying we are lying and slandering Kronk. It really bothers me to come here and be reminded of his false accusation each time I want to read or post? Is that just something wordpress does and you can’t stop it or can you delete it?
May all of you be blessed with the blessings you give others, coming back multiplied. JB, thank you for your hospitality and composure. I know it is difficult sometimes.
To all —– health, wealth and time to enjoy it all xooxoxooxo
Zub, Really…100%…To error is to be human. I’m sure in our lifetime there will still be questions. There has to be a certain amount of acceptance to where we are in our evolution.
We are not a perfect animal but we strive for what we believe in and try to prove it. The stigmata comes when we don’t want to accept because of personal background or belief.
A Jew, a Christian a Muslim….who is right? None and All, based upon facts we cannot prove.
There are fine lines between faith, physical knowledge and conjecture. That’s what makes us, us.
D, there is a huge difference between faith in something that can’t be proven, as yet, and the standards by which we pass judgment that affects another person’s life. Yes, to err is human but I could never be satisfied with accepting error as truth and justice. We may not ever achieve 100% but in that case, I could also never say with certainty I can accept a verdict as 100% truth and justice if there is room for error or doubt. In the same way, I could never condemn another person’s faith because I have no proof it is false. Perhaps we could passify our conscience by convincing ourselves that the person may be paying for sins from another lifetime when he didn’t get caught but then that leaves someone out there that is again, not getting caught and getting away with murder. The other problem with this thinking is there can be no possible repentance if the person has no conscious memory of the wrong done in another lifetime. So it serves no purpose and makes no sense to me. The person would take to his grave a bitterness at being wronged by his fellow man. How does that help the evolution of humanity? I only see that as taking us backward, not progressing. Actually, I think suffering for the sins of someone else is the example modeled by the Piscean master. But, it is time we outgrow that because we are coming to the next stage in our evolution. which comes every couple of thousand years or so. Some are still trying to hold on to the golden bull.
Should I start singing “We shall overcome?” lol
Bullstopper, I’m sorry for posting my comment to you at your site.
Here’s my apology for calling you a dumbass. I was irate because of the original statement you made here at theJBmission. I acted irrationally because of your original comment you made here. Without any provocation at all, you wrote this:
“This is perhaps the most ridiculous of a long series of ludicrous articles you have posted.”
Here you clearly stated what you think about me and my blog. You are entitled to your opinion as I am. My first mistake was to approve your FIRST comment. It would have been best had I deleted it. My second was to react as rudely as you did by going to YOUR site to malign and criticize you.
I have no intention of having a “blog war” with you. I’ll continue to do what I do and write the articles I choose. This site will go back to where it was.
From this point on, I’ll delete any comment pertaining to you, your readers or your site.
Have a Blessed New Year,
JB
JB, All of a sudden I have much more respect for you. The world especially the Blogging world is a strange place. To have humility is rare. These are what I see as gifts in people. As long as it is reciprocal I welcome the comradery. I have never thought that I was better than anyone but I know from time to time I can ruffle feathers…but we all do that don’t we? Bless you and the effort.
Zub, I hope for all of us that we can find solutions based on facts and not perceptions. I find it human nature to read between the lines when there is nothing there. The perfect example is KC’s testimony to date. You can believe in her words as spoken and adhered to or try and read between the lines of what is not there. It’s called belief. Perception will play out as 9/10ths of the law. It’s pretty much documented case after case.
Baez ” You will understand and everything will make sense when we go to trial”….how is everything to make sense when Baez will try and have thrown out as much as possible between the dates of June16th and July 15th? After all this is the job of the defense at the expense of someone totally forgotten, Caylee Anthony.
Well put Zub. Faith is an action, not a religion. It is a verb , not a noun. Faith is believing in
something, that has not been proven yet. Faith is believing in something common sense tell us not to. Faith is being sure of something and certain of what you do not see. Faith is surety of what you hope. Faith is believing in something we can not see. We can not see air..but we know its there..we can not visualize the action of sound..but we believe its there. Faith is trusting in what may not exist, compared to what we have been convinced exists.
FAITH IS SOMETHING THAT YOU BELIEVE. Faith is work. It is action. Faith is a POWERFUL
belief of certainty..tapping in to the most powerful gift given to man. With faith , anything is possible. Faith is the certainty that what you have hope for will manifest. See it, believe it, make it happen. When my faith is where it should be, and I am practicing to the best of my ability, as i am still and forever will be, things happen. Faith is one of the hardest to maintain, but simplicity if we can remain firm. In the midst of problem, heartache, turmoil..one wonders how a person can sustain on faith alone. But it is the faith that
brings us through. Nothing so bad should happen, that something good does not come
from it.
I am sure although criticized for her beliefs ..KC has her faith..mind you not religion..because faith is not religion. That is the only possible way I see her
or others faced with similar circumstances..in isolation..could maintain.
My father was a great teacher..although I don’t know that he was aware of it. He
passed in 2006 and was my mentor. He was the most intelligent person I have
ever known. But what made him so unique..was he had such a handle..such a balance
of the spiritual world..and the earthly world. He used many capabilities and gifts from both.
I have a very long story about all of that..which I will not go into..but trust in me..he
was a very unique gifted person! My faith began many years ago..I get frustrated when I
know that what I ask for can be received..but I am not self trained enough to overcome
the human emotions and block the paths..by not being firm in my conviction. To have
faith in a need..and falter and worry will surely block your way.
I had questions ..If God made us..who made God? Where did he come from? Where was
the beginning of existince period? I asked my dad those questions..and he said I don’t know
but I accept it. THAT IS FAITH!
I also could not be absolute at the end of a trial..unless there was no doubt to be had.
That there was solid proof that something happened. I also may speculate about someone..
but to pass judgement ..and how things came about..without solid proof..
I can not do.
Regardless, if I can not be 100% sure in my faith..or my belief..whether it be God, a science,
or a murder trial..Then it does not work for me.
Hi Damagdpet,
Thank you very kindly Sir, I do have many gifts but humility is not always my finest. As you know, I do what I can to get by on the WWW and it’s not always easy. Considering the situation and the fact that I did go to his site, I thought apologizing would be the mature thing to do and I was having a feel good “Holiday Moment” so I did just that.
After attending a small get together with the neighbors celebrating the New Year, I decided to check in on him to see if he had read my apology. As I read more into his article I found that he did. To my surprise, it didn’t seem to register as an apology to him at all. It seemed to infuriate him even more. As I was reading his words and feeling his anger, I noticed his previous post entries.
Here they are.
Does the “JB” in JB Mission Stand for “Jose Baez” or “Just Bull” ?
Is Jose Baez Slandering Roy Kronk?
How Much Money Did George Anthony Take From River Cruz?
Is Jose Baez a Huge Waste?
How Does Jose Baez Define Evidence?
Is Jose Baez a Liar?
Does Jose Baez Understand Written Court Orders?
What Doesn’t Jose Baez Know?
Is Jose Baez Worried About the Expense to Taxpayers?
Does George Anthony Love His Daughter?
Out of 10 posts, 8 of them are about Jose Baez. The other two are about George Anthony. There are ZERO posts discussing Casey Anthony, newly released documents or evidence. They are all hate filled banter concerning Casey Anthony’s attorneys and family. I think this person is seriously unstable and has a sick obsession with Jose Baez. I’m surprised he hasn’t sought me out earlier. He’s associating me with Jose Baez whom he despises and even thinks I am him.
So I’m wondering what should I do? My husband is telling me to be careful and he wants me to stop blogging completely because of all of the nuts out there. Of course, I’m not going to but I will be more careful of who I communicate with from now on.
Anyway, thank you for noticing my effort. I realize that this is almost like road rage so you have to be careful who you cut off.
Well, that’s my analogy for the day. I’m off to bed.
Good morning and Happy New Day and New Year everyone. I see you did some house cleaning to start the year off right, JB. Thank you.
I spent a little time looking over the 22 motions that will be heard on Jan. 3. Number 3 on the list is the subject matter of the above article, prior bad acts of Mr. Kronk. http://www.wftv.com/pdf/26331400/detail.html I guess Belich assumed too much. Perception is a bitch sometimes, isn’t it?
Some of the many motions just filed by the defense are routine for any good defense attorney and probably won’t be granted but they must preserve rights for appeal. I’m thinking of the myspace postings by Cindy and Casey that will likely get in to trial. But there are several that should be quite interesting to hear. Although I criticize the integrity of a certain reporter there, WFTV does a very good job of sharing public documents and I applaud them for that. See motions here: http://www.wftv.com/news/26328169/detail.html The motion about the jib jab video brought up a very good point. The state has no intention of using that video as evidence but yet made a public display of it by handing it to media through the discovery process, a misuse of power that should bring sanctions against them, IMO. Their motive could be nothing but to mock and embarrass the defendant and her attorney. That is just wrong. Now, I realize this is my opinion and it would be very difficult to prove what was going on inside their heads. But, since it was created after the incarceration of the defendant how could it possibly be considered evidence that falls under the rules of discovery. Are they going to say that Baez created it to show public bias? I doubt it. There is overwhelming evidence of public bias without that silly video. I can have a pretty high rate of faith that my opinion is likely fact on this subject. But I still won’t judge until the facts are in.
While there are some 22 defense motions to be heard Monday, one didn’t make it into the court schedule, a new state motion that trumps all of the defense motions. It was filed 6 hours after the defense motions so that may be why but I think this one deserves its own day in court (said sarcastically). http://www.wftv.com/pdf/26331102/detail.html I expect a defense attorney to get what they can excluded, if they show it wasn’t directly relevant to the crime accused of. But, since when should the prosecutor have the right to gag a defense attorney or defendant, keeping them from claiming their innocence?
Order in limine, excluding counsel, defendant, or any witness from eliciting, commenting upon or otherwise offering evidence of any testimony or expression of personal opinion that the defendant is guilty or not guilty…any testimony or argument by counsel that any witnesses are liars or words to that effect, that LE or any other government agency leaked anything… This is a must read. How can an attorney properly defend his client if he is barred from stating his client’s innocence or calling witness to show misconduct on the part of law enforcement or the state attoneys, if that is the case. Surely Ms Burdick is confused thinking it is April Fool’s day instead of New Year’s Day. It sounds like there is mounting evidence that leaks have been orchestrated and they want Baez stopped before it is fully revealed. Of course, that is my opinion but from day one I’ve hear reporters saying their “source very close to the investigation” told them, only to find out some of it was simply not true or taken out of context, slanted or skewed. http://www.wftv.com/pdf/26331102/detail.html
Hope everyone had a Happy New Year. Well when I think I have some things figured out I get surprised once again. I have looked at all the motions that JB has filed this week and mind you I know that these need to be filed but am shocked that he did these almost all at once. To me i t looks like , JP I will show you I can get on the ball, kind of like giving JP and SOA the middle finger lol. What bothers me about this is some of these should have been done before it has been over 2 years but I guess now since it is 5 months to trial things need to get to a faster pace. hope this does not backfire and JP has them all working the weekends and after 5pm to deal with all of this. Not that I am saying this will irritate the judge but it might not be a good idea to get on the judges bad side. Anyway maybe someone can help me understand why he would use this approach now.
Hi y’all….. it’s 1/1/11 ———- hope the year is wonderful for all……
Hi Diane. If it were me, with my organizational style, I would group as much together that was similar, as possible. I get a momentum going and like to keep going. As for being 2 years into and only 5 months away from trial, remember, the state is still handing over discovery AND the depos are just recently completed or not done yet. The cloroform motion had to depend on the recorded depo because they haven’t been able to get a hold of a transcript yet. They couldn’t have possibly filed this motion until now and that is no fault of their own.The would need to gather everything the state is claiming, interview state witnesses then form their motions based on law and what they find out. Also, it isn’t the defense or state that sets the court calendar, it is the judicial assistant, I believe. Perry only has to address what he wants to at any given hearing. He is a get it done type of man so he plans to hear 22 motions. Notice he left the state’s 2 motions to another time even though one was filed much earlier. Those are the ones I want to hear. I also noticed that new state motion was mute in the news article.
Happy 1-1-11 to you too, Hazaka. Hey, it’s a palindrome day, isn’t it? Mom and Dad are palindromes too.
well — I “could” have been a palindrome …but…. was born a tad too early! Shhhhhhh….. 5/5/**
Interesting …about 5 years ago there was a movie …palinrome ….. my cousin was in it!
Wow, a baby bull. I suspect you are related to angus, They not only can kick backwards, they have the ability to kick outward or sideways. I don’t mess with them. Our Aussie got her leg tore up by one. She learned real fast to jump out of their range after nipping their heels.
Well, I think you and I are the only ones not with a hangover or the need to sleep late.
I had a little Cinnamon Schnapps and went to bed fairly early.
Have to admit ….. had friends for dinner…. watched the Honeymooners marathon… fell asleep around 3ish…. was up for coffee at 6:30 —- but…. just took an hour’s “rest” — And yea… we forgot the champagne (since last year … guess it gets better with aging
—- but admittedly… did have some wine…..
Guess everyone is still sleeping in.
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!
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Thank you Val! Same to you
Everyone seems to still be participating in the holiday festivities so I’ll speak for all till they find their way back home. Happy New Year to you also, Valhall. May your year be productive and prosperous.
Happy new year all! Spent the day with my 86 yr old mom. Nice day. No, Zuben I did not have a hangover either. LOL but did sleep in a bit..I have been working non stop through the holidays.
I am taking a couple days off to start the New Year After a VERY long cold spell..even into the 20′s at night
in Fl it was a beautiful day 77degrees!!!
I am glad to see Baez got his bad acts motion in there! Thanks for the links.
Hi Snoop,
How nice
BTW, I have a new post up for Monday’s hearing.
Get some rest..LOL
Hi Zuben,
You said this:
The cloroform motion had to depend on the recorded depo because they haven’t been able to get a hold of a transcript yet. They couldn’t have possibly filed this motion until now and that is no fault of their own
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I’m curious about the chloroform motion. Did I miss something because I don’t recall anything conclusive pertaining to chloroform. help..
Morning all. Snoop, I’m glad you are having a restful start to your new year. I was just teasing about the hangover.
JB, in their motion here, http://www.wftv.com/pdf/26331516/detail.html they say they discovered the test was qualitative, not quantitative so it would be quite a stretch to say there were high levels of chloroform. This is part of why the state is all in a huff wanting to gag and mute the defense from saying anything that would imply they or any government agency rep has leaked, lied or lit up the air waves with false information in this motion, http://www.wftv.com/pdf/26331516/detail.html . If you haven’t read that one it is a must read. It isn’t on the court agenda for Monday but it gives a preview of what attitudes will be leaking through on the state’s side of the courtroom. I sense a whole lot of anger in that motion. Hopefully LDB will be able to keep her cool better than Ashton. I find it interesting she used the word, ‘irrelevant’ in the last paragraph, to describe anything the defense might say regarding what they consider false information being leaked or claimed in reports coming from LE.
They also requested a subpoena for JJ’s picks that have disappeared from the internet when he was blogging at websleuths and sared monkey. He posted pics of clothing found, I believe at the park but I’m sure they need to see everything he has written and posted. I’d want to see all of his photos, maps and notes, regardless of wether they were posted on line or not. But he’s only asked for the internet deleted material. If NTS was banned for simply mentioning him, I wonder what posts might have been deleted to protect him too. They have a TOS rule that no member can be sleuthed. Melich is a member too and some other people involved in this case. There are probably a few not revealed too, hiding behind their internet alias. It looks like WS and SM are getting some free advertising out of this case too.
Zuben,
Very good read, thank you. Yes, I do recall the media hype involving chloroform. Baez did a good job filing this motion. As I understand Baez’s argument the test didn’t pass the Frye test. Since Ashton needed a cause of death to apply the death penalty, he decided on chloroform only later did we find out this is all speculation but it was a bit too late. Now how did this get to the media? tsk, tsk..Shame on him.
Z, What’s with JJ? I’ll have to put him on my radar.
As I’ve said before, it looks to me like he said what he believe to be the truth in his emails to LE but then realized he could become the star witness for the defense and then began to make himself less accessible. He seems to have quite blogging, at least under his own name. He couldn’t delete the comments already made but could get rid of his pics and I believe he deleted his website that I saw a link to somewhere. When I clicked, it was gone. While I applaud him for being one of the many people that give of themselves to search for missing people, I don’t condone only wanting to find what will condemn his person of interest or the one he has determined, IHO is guilty. Maybe he did or did not ever meet Buchannan, or search with her. Maybe he did or did not look exactly where Caylee was later found. But he thought he did and can’t retract that later. Casey told a story about Blanchard park. If it is true, what if those items of clothing found did belong to her? What if Caylee, her blanket and a backpack were snatched out of the car and something belonging to Casey was in that backpack. She could have even had the laundry bag in the car holding clothing. At this point, we just don’t know. But, that could be one reason Baez needs the pics he took.
Oh stay ye but a little now
To hear how the bell is rung
The day of Caylee’s justice
Soon now comes
Hello, Victoria. What a nice poem. We all share that same prayer or invocation.
Zuben — I will click, ‘like’ … hope it is for your post!
I didn’t realize he had sent emails before being contacted by LB. In a way, that doesn’t seem right, to search then blog and then compare notes. Wow, I applaud him too, all people who search for missing children. It”s just I find his behavior odd. Thanks for explaining.
Victoria, that’s a lovely poem and thought. Thank you very much.
~ib~ I am just so all aglow with your sentiments on a no brainer little ditty. I have since made a revision that should leave NO ONE in doubt of my sentiments and meaning.
*
Oh stay ye but a little
To see the bell of justice rung
With a guilty verdict
Caylee’s justice will be sung
*
I wish no one here any animosity. It is my belief following the evidence that Casey Anthony is guilty of a heinous and unfathomable act. If you have a differing opinion, go with it. Peace be unto you in 2011.
And such a nice revision too Victoria. Was that really a no-brainer for you? Good for you, I guess there’s always room for improvement but I thought the first one was just as nice. Which ever the case, there’s no animosity towards you. I know as God looks down upon all of us, he knows what is truly in our hearts.
Peace be unto you in 2011 as well. Have a blessed day Victoria.
~jb~ Sorry. I thought that anyone that looked at the little diity I composed would know that it was a no brainer to compose it.
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ooops wrong again Victoria. I guess what you’re saying is that anybody but me would know that what you composed was a no-brainer. Hmm…I thought everyone knew when someone was just being polite.
Are we through yet?
JB
Victoria, I liked the 1st version better because it left room for all the evidence to come in before filling the needle. Remember, Ms Justice keeps her blindfold in place so she can come to an unbiased verdict. I couldn’t possibly make a statement of opinion of who is guilty at this point. But perhaps you have inside knowledge or intuition I don’t have. Regardless, thank you for wanting justice.
OK, JB…After an exhausting search, discovery and writing of a post with the info about that email Jordon wrote that I’ve mentioned before, which disappeared, (my fault) I’ll simplify but just giving the page range of some more pages concerning him. I downloaded the doc on March 25 of this year, pg 12662-13305 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/30918603/Casey-Anthony-full-document-pages-12662-13305-23Mar2010 I don’t think WFTV saw fit to include this little gem. See page 12715 forward for JJ items. His first email was in August, he was chatting with Cocaomom and with RickPleasa and forwarded that on to LE. During that time there was also a 49 page, 2 part thread at WS entitled, “Cocamom’s Church Theory”. Perhaps the subpoena should include her photobucket account, the one she gives Jordan the password too. He wrote Allen and Melich on Dec. 13 telling him he doesn’t believe Caylee was there when him and the dogs were there searching, not to miss the cooler, pink blanket, etc he made note of on the tes docs and told him if they followed up on the Oveido tip he gave them that is likely where the evidence can be found of where she was moved from. He also said there was a partial box of garbage bags in Oviedo. See pg 12844. You can see that they waited over 15 months to hand this stuff over to the defense. Justice my a$$! I’m even more angry reading all this again than the first time I read it. They had no right, morally or legally, not to immediately tell the defense about this.
Thank you Zub,
I succinctly remember reading the same thing, either in email or doc release. I’m not sure, it’s somewhere on my pc. I’ll have to check. It makes me angry too. Who do these people think they are!! That is valuable information. Wow.
~jb~ I don’t know? Are we through yet?
You’re quite welcome voodoo queen.
Victoria, I’m getting the strange feeling you don’t have the best intentions in visiting us. You have such a beautiful name, I’d hate to think your heart isn’t as pure. Would you like to discuss the topic of the thread? We all do our best here to be respectful to one another so we can have productive discourse. Some people couldn’t put to rhyming words together in a melodic way to save their soul. So, please accept the compliment with grace.
voodoo queen, moi? Did you call? Seriously Zub, I know I’ve read JJ’s email somewhere. Do you know if you posted the link on this thread because I may have downloaded..just wondering.
Victoria is a beautiful name. I believe it was on the name list for my first born.
The link is in my post a couple back and I just posted it on the Close but no Caylee thread. Here it is again http://www.docstoc.com/docs/30918603/Casey-Anthony-full-document-pages-12662-13305-23Mar2010 but look above where I list the page numbers.
I guess Jose Baez, attorney at law missed the channel 9 video of a lady taking tha Anthonys trash out of the trash can and going through it and keeping several things. I watched it with amazment. Thats how easy it would be to get some personal items of the Anthonys.
http://www.wftv.com/video/17429655/index.html
A cadaver dog can actually detect human remains through concrete, buried underground, or at the bottom of a body of water.
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Amazing isn’t it??
Sorry Bo Time,
I had to edit your comment. Jose Baez is the correct name we use here
JB